MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE April 28, 1999 9:06 AM TAPES SFC-99 #113, Sides A and B CALL TO ORDER Co-Chair John Torgerson convened the meeting at approximately 9:06 A.M. PRESENT In addition to Co-chair Torgerson, Senators Sean Parnell, Randy Phillips, Dave Donley, Gary Wilken, Al Adams, Pete Kelly and Lyda Green were present when the meeting was convened. Also Attending: EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section, Department of Education; MEL KROGSENG, staff to Senator Robin Taylor; JOHN KIMMEL, staff to Senator Robin Taylor; BRETT HUBER, staff to Senator Rick Halford; CAROL CARROLL, Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources; WALTER SAMSON, NANA Regional Corporation; PAUL ANDERSON, Mayor pro tem, City of Petersburg; aides to committee members and other members of the Legislature. Attending via Teleconference: NANCY WELCH, Regional Manager, Northern Region Office, Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources, Fairbanks; MAX LOWE, President, Alaska Snowmobile Alliance, Anchorage; LANCE STEVENS, Anchorage; BRYAN MERRELL, Anchorage; TIM BORGSTROM, Alaska Economic Development, Anchorage; HARVEY HARRIS, Glennallen; MICHAEL EASTHAM, Homer; DALE BONDURANT, Kenai; HOWARD DAVIS, Kenai; TIM KRUG, Mat-Su; TOM STAR, Mat-Su; BOB ZORICH, Petersburg; MARY FRANCIS, Superintendent of Schools, Petersburg; SHARLA COON, Petersburg; KAREN SEVERSON, Petersburg; ELIZABETH BACOM, Petersburg; TRACEY REID, Petersburg; WOODY WILSON, Superintendent of Schools, Wrangell. SUMMARY INFORMATION Co-chair Torgerson called the meeting to order at approximately 9:14 a.m. He called SB 45. SENATE BILL NO. 45 "An Act relating to tort immunity for personal injuries or death occurring on land; relating to the vacation by the state or a municipality of rights-of- way acquired by the state under former 43 U.S.C. 932; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 45(JUD) "An Act providing that a person who grants certain conservation easements to the state that provide public access for recreational purposes is immune from tort liability, other than gross negligence or reckless or intentional misconduct, for damages to a person who uses the easement under certain conditions; relating to the vacation by the state or a municipality of rights-of-way acquired by the state under former 43 U.S.C. 932; and providing for an effective date." BRETT HUBER, staff to Senator Rick Halford was invited to join the committee. He briefly reviewed the sponsor statement for the committee. In referring to the judiciary version of the bill he explained that it made a technical correction to the statutes governing vacation of RS 2477 rights-of-way and section line easements granted under former 43 U.S.C.932. Senator Adams asked if municipalities would be liable under this bill. Mr. Huber responded that the judiciary version of the bill granted immunity to the landowners. There was no immunity to the receiver. Senator Adams asked if the 50-foot width easement would hamper property owners? He did not think this was enough easement. Mr. Huber briefly responded. Senator Adams asked if a municipality vacated an easement what would happen? In response, Mr. Huber said he was familiar with the specific case that Senator Adams was referring to and noted that the easement was a State interest; and the Court found that this would take State intervention. Co-chair Torgerson asked Mr. Huber to explain the limited tort. Mr. Huber said the conservation easement was a 50- foot width. Anything else beyond the 50-foot easement would be considered an illegal use. Some municipalities would choose to deal with the easement rights differently. Further, Mr. Huber explained that the easement could carry other stipulations. Other groups, for instance, had also suggested "lease". Co-chair Torgerson asked if the bill could be expanded to include University land? Mr. Huber said if the committee so wished they most likely could expand the bill. Senator Adams said he had an amendment to be presented, which was being copied and therefore, Co-chair Torgerson said he would hear public testimony at this time. DICK BISHOP was invited to join the committee. He felt landowners should have protection on their lands. He urged passage of the bill. NANCY WELCH, Regional Manager, Northern Region Office, Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources testified before the committee via teleconference from Fairbanks. She referred to Section 4 of the bill and suggested possible added tort immunity. MAX LOWE, President of the Alaska Snowmobile Alliance testified before the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. He concurred with the bill and asked the committee to consider its passage. LANCE STEVENS, member of the Alaska Snowmobile Alliance testified before the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. He concurred with the bill. BRYAN MERRELL, testified before the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. He voiced some concern with the bill and felt that private landowners would suffer hardships. This bill and SB 180 should be reconsidered. TIM BORGSTROM, Alaska Economic Development testified before the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. He felt Alaska should be consistent with other states. He stated his support of the bill. HARVEY HARRIS, testified before the committee via teleconference from Glennallen. (testimony unintelligible) MICHAEL EASTHAM, member, SNOWMADS testified before the committee via teleconference from Homer. He was concerned that trail users did not stay within the 50-foot easement. He said that immunity should be extended. They supported the bill. DALE BONDURANT, testified before the committee via teleconference from Kenai. He strongly supported the bill. HOWARD DAVIS, Caribou Hills, testified before the committee via teleconference from Kenai. He strongly supported the bill. TIM KRUG, City of Wasilla testified before the committee via teleconference from Mat-Su. He said the City of Wasilla strongly supported the bill. TOM STAR, Mat-Su Motor Mushers testified before the committee via teleconference from Mat-Su. He said he also strongly supported the bill. Senator Phillips commented briefly. WALTER SAMSON, NANA Regional Corporation was invited to join the committee. They supported the bill and would be happy to answer any questions. Senator Adams MOVED amendment #1. Co-chair Torgerson OBJECTED. Senator Adams asked Carol Carroll, Department of Natural Resources to join the committee to explain the department's concerns regarding immunity. There was a need for private owners to be protected. CAROL CARROLL, Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources was invited to join the committee. She noted that with the amendment #1 immunity would be broadened. It would extend to the grantor and grantee both. She said that the testimony this morning indicated there was a need to broaden the immunity. Co-chair Torgerson referred to line 14 of the amendment #1. Ms. Carroll commented. Senator Parnell asked if the particular language would narrow the definition? Ms. Carroll said taken in whole was the broadening of the immunity. She explained that this particular language in amendment #1 was taken on the advice of their attorney. Ms. Carroll said she would rather defer to their attorney for any further explanation. DICK MYLIUS, Department of Natural Resources testified before the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. He said he would try to answer any questions the members would have. He explained the particular language in question, "arising out of the use of" line 14 of the amendment #1. He did not feel that a battery or assault charge would be the concern of the landowner. BRETT HUBER, staff to Senator Rick Halford was invited back before the committee. He commented briefly to amendment in this situation. Mr. Huber said the amendment would expand the grantee to include other governmental bodies. Senator Parnell asked for a definition of "other governmental bodies"? Senator Adams said for instance, it would include "municipalities and other state agencies". Mr. Huber said the limiting factor would be at line 24. Senator Green OBJECTED to the amendment. She said she would rather go back to version "G" of the bill, which was the original bill. Senator Adams indicated his amendment would fit in either version of the bill. By a roll call vote of 5 yeas (Torgerson, Parnell, Donley, Wilken, Adams) and 3 nays (P. Kelly, Green, Phillips) (Leman absent) amendment #1 was ADOPTED. Senator Parnell MOVED CSSB 45 as amended and WITHOUT OBJECTION it was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes. The committee took a brief at ease. Co-chair Torgerson reconvened the committee and called SB 105. SENATE BILL NO. 105 "An Act determining the facilities constituting a school for purposes of public school funding; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 105(HES) "An Act determining the facilities constituting a school for purposes of public school funding; and providing for an effective date." MEL KROGSENG, staff to Senator Robin Taylor was invited to join the committee. JOHN KIMMELL, staff to Senator Robin Taylor was invited to join the committee and gave a brief commentary on the sponsor statement. He apologized for the Senator not being present saying he was in Washington D.C. In response to a question by Senator Phillips, Ms. Krogseng said the bill would affect only Petersburg and Wrangell schools. Senator Parnell asked about fiscal notes but Co-chair Torgerson cautioned that perhaps the committee should hear from the department. Ms. Krongseng responded regarding the fiscal note. Petersburg will be in trouble if the bill does not pass and the Wrangell school was in trouble last year. She noted that the fiscal note from Department of Education dated 4/22/99 was the correct one. Senator Wilken asked if the schools were single site schools. Co-chair Torgerson advised that they were. EDDY JEANS, School Finance Manager, Department of Education was invited to join the committee. He explained the fiscal note attached to the HES version of the bill. He advised the committee that the department opposed the bill. There were problems as far as the department was concerned last year with SB 36. There are districts affected by this situation. Another school would be Dillingham. Co-chair Torgerson query. Mr. Jeans reiterated that the department was opposed to the bill and anything to do with the foundation formula. He explained the adjustment per school size depending on student enrollment. Mr. Jeans said he would get actual dollar amount back to the committee, in response to a request from Co-chair Torgerson. Senator Adams said he did not bring his amendments to this bill. He noted problems with SB 36. Co-chair Torgerson said he would always have time for any amendments from Senator Adams. Senator Kelly asked if there was any specific statistics regarding Dillingham school and Wrangell school. Mr. Jeans explained as best he could but indicated he would provide further information to the committee. Senator Phillips asked about the three-school situation in Wrangell. Mr. Jeans responded that it would have depended on the population at the time the schools were built. BOB ZORICH, testified via teleconference from Petersburg. MARY FRANCIS, Superintendent of Schools, testified via teleconference from Petersburg. She explained the projected enrollment for next year was about $350,000 difference between SB 36 and SB 105. SHARLA COON, testified via teleconference from Petersburg and said she supported the bill. KAREN SEVERSON, testified via teleconference from Petersburg and said she supported the bill. ELIZABETH BACOM, testified via teleconference from Petersburg and said she was concerned with cuts in educational funds. The cost of education is not appreciated until the student leaves the system. Education should remain a priority for Alaskans. She supported the bill. TRACEY REID, testified via teleconference from Petersburg and asked the committee to support and pass SB 105. WOODY WILSON, Superintendent of Schools, testified via teleconference from Wrangell. He explained the tragic situation in their community and urged the committee to pass the bill. PAUL ANDERSON, Mayor pro tem, City of Petersburg, was invited to join the committee. He said a commitment was made last year to consider SB 105 upon the passage of SB 36. He said the situation was the same in Wrangell. He explained cuts in the community due to deficit budget. Everything has been closed down in their community. "Let's get real and get our kids to the university." Co-chair Torgerson said he would set the bill aside pending receipt of information from the Department of Education. SB 29, SB 133 and possibly SB 128 would be taken up tomorrow morning. ADJOURNMENT Co-chair Torgerson adjourned the meeting at approximately 10:30 a.m. (Tape number 113, side B, log 255.) SFC-99 (1) 04/28/99