MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE May 7, 1995 12:40 p.m. TAPES SFC-95, #65, Side 1 (370-end) SFC-95, #65, Side 2 (575-375) CALL TO ORDER Senator Rick Halford, Co-chair, convened the meeting at approximately 12:40 p.m. PRESENT In addition to Co-chairmen Halford and Frank, Senators Phillips, Rieger, Sharp, and Zharoff were present. Senator Donley was ill and did not attend. ALSO ATTENDING: Jerry McCune, representing Cordova District Fishermen United and United Fishermen of Alaska; Jerry Shriner, Legislative Liaison, Dept. of Corrections; Juanita Hensley, Chief of Driver Services, Dept. of Public Safety; Daniella Loper aide to Representative Porter; and aides to committee members and other members of the legislature. SUMMARY INFORMATION HB 159 - DWI LAWS/ MINOR IN POSSESSION LAWS Discussion was had with Jerry Shriner, Juanita Hensley, and Daniella Loper. An amendment replacing the word "reasonable" with "probable" at page 1, line 8, was adopted. A motion to pass the bill from committee was made, and objection was raised. Since a bare quorum of four members was present at the time, the bill was held in committee. HB 233 - EXTENSION OF MISC BOARDS & COMMISSIONS The following amendments were adopted: 1. Change the extension date on Secs. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 to 1996. 2. Change the date on Sec. 9 to December 31, 1994. 3. Change the date on Sec. 10 to 1997. 4. Deletion of Sec. 11 with the exception of the last sentence and removal of the word "also" within the remaining sentence. A motion to move the bill failed, and the bill was held in committee. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 233(FIN) am An Act extending the termination date of the Board of Clinical Social Work Examiners, Board of Marine Pilots, Board of Marital and Family Therapy, State Medical Board, Board of Nursing, Board of Psychologist and Psychological Associate Examiners, Real Estate Commission, Special Education Service Agency, Correctional Industries Commission, and Hazardous Substance Spill Technology Review Council; and providing for an effective date. Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 233 (Fin)am be brought on for discussion and advised that it would extend some entities beyond the traditional four-year term prior to sunset review and reenactment or elimination. Some entities are recommended for ten-year extension or exemption from sunset altogether. He then voiced his recommendation that extensions be reduced, saying that he did not intend to extend beyond the four years established in sunset law. Senator Rieger spoke to an increasing number of problems resulting from restrictive statutory licensing requirements that prohibit qualified individuals from practicing in their fields. As an example, he noted that the licensing board for physical therapists has resisted efforts to "open that up" even when state hearing officers concluded that an individual who applied was totally qualified but technically ineligible because of statutory wording. Concern has been raised regarding whether "our whole occupational licensing statutes are really properly crafted." The Senator referenced a recent newspaper article focusing on the state medical board as a further example. He then voiced discomfort with extension of existing boards in light of need for overall review. He acknowledged need for board certification to protect the public but questioned economic manipulation by boards. In his closing remarks, he referenced a recent exchange with a constituent who was denied licensing by the board governing acupuncture and suggested that individuals are prevented from earning a livelihood as a result of lack of overall statutory review by the legislature. Co-chairman Halford observed that Secs. 1 through 8 relate to occupational licensing. Proposed extensions range from 2003 to 2005. Noting that all of the impacted boards have an additional wind-down year following the actual sunset date, he suggested that extensions be changed to 1996. The Co-chairman next referenced extension of the correctional industries program, set forth in Sec. 10, and acknowledged that it is unique in that it does not enjoy a wind-down period. It would thus cease as of July 1, 1995. Referencing Sec. 9 extension of the hazardous substance spill technology review council, Co-chairman Frank advised that funding for the council was removed from the operating budget because of impending sunset. Senator Zharoff acknowledged concern regarding extension of sunset boards beyond five years but noted that dates within the bill were recommended by Legislative Audit. He then suggested that the length of recommended extensions be cut in half. Senator Rieger recalled that the Legislative Audit report questioned need for legislation every four years for boards that are always extended when brought forward for sunset review. The recommendation for those boards was review every ten years. The Senator reiterated growing legislative sensitivity concerning economic regulation powers exerted by boards. He cited recent debate associated with the board of marine pilots as an example. Co-chairman Halford agreed that creation of a regulatory body gives control to the executive branch. It then becomes difficult or impossible to effect amendments until sunset, if those amendments are opposed by the executive branch. Senator Sharp MOVED to change sunset dates in Secs. 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 to 1996, and to change the date in Sec. 10 to 1997. He advised that Secs. 2 and 9 were removed from the motion since the board of marine pilots (Sec. 2) was recently considered and funding for the council in Sec. 9 may have been removed from the budget. Senator Randy Phillips OBJECTED. Co-chairman Halford called for a show of hands. The motion CARRIED on a vote of 4 to 2, and the AMENDMENT was ADOPTED. Co-chairman Halford voiced his understanding that Sec. 2 extension of the Board of Marine Pilots to 1999 is consistent with legislation recently passed by committee. Senator Rieger questioned whether the committee would want to extend the board for that long should the legislation not pass both bodies. Voicing his belief that earlier legislation would supercede HB 233, Senator Rieger MOVED to change the extension date in Sec. 2 to 1996. Co-chairman Halford remarked that enactment of legislation would depend upon the order in which it is signed by the governor. OBJECTION to the motion was raised. Co-chairman Halford called for a show of hands. The motion CARRIED on a vote of 5 to 1, and the AMENDMENT was ADOPTED. Co-chairman Halford noted that Sec. 11 would no longer be necessary since it contains an exemption from sunset law. As a result of amendments adopted by committee, no boards would extended beyond the statutory four-year sunset provision. Senator Phillips subsequently noted need to retain the last sentence of Sec. 11 and remove the word "also" therefrom. No objection to deletion of the first portion of Sec. 11 or retention of the last sentence following removal of the word "also" having been raised, the bill was so AMENDED. JERRY McCUNE, representing the Prince William Sound Science Center, came before committee to speak to Sec. 9. He explained that the hazardous substance spill technology review council is in its wind-down year. A number of projects are underway, and approximately $1.7 million in funding from "criminal money" remains for distribution to projects statewide. In order to finish its work, the council requested an extension of one year. The oil spill recovery institute will then take over federal moneys. Council operations will be derived from the $1.7 million. A total of 63 proposed projects have been narrowed to 15. Decisions will have to be made as to which ones will receive funding and which will not. In response to questions from Senator Rieger, Mr. McCune advised that the 15 projects would utilize the $1.7 million. In some cases, projects will be contracted while the council will merely make contractual recommendations on others. Co-chairman Frank asked if extension of an entire year was necessary. Mr. McCune responded affirmatively, advising that the council only meets four or five times a year. He attested to difficulties associated with getting all parties together. End: SFC-95, #65, Side 1 Begin: SFC-95, #65, Side 2 Co-chairman Frank MOVED that the Sec. 9 extension date for the commission be changed from June 30, 1995, to December 31, 1994. In light of the additional wind-down year associated with sunset, the amendment would extend the council for half a year. No objection having been raised, the AMENDMENT was ADOPTED. Senator Rieger MOVED for passage of SCS CSHB 233 (Fin). Senator Zharoff OBJECTED. Co-chairman Halford called for a show of hands. The motion FAILED on a vote of 3 to 3, and SCS CSHB 233 (Fin) was held in committee. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 159(JUD) An Act allowing a person under age 21 to be arrested by a peace officer without a warrant for illegal possession, consumption, or control of alcohol; relating to the offenses of driving while intoxicated and failure to submit to a chemical test of breath or blood; and providing for an effective date. Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 159 (Jud) be brought on for discussion. He noted that the bill was held from a previous meeting for development of a fiscal note showing potential revenues from increased fines as well as a new note from the Dept. of Corrections evidencing reduced costs in the initial year of implementation. The Co-chairman referenced information indicating that while fines might total $760.0, 80% to 90% will be uncollectible for lack of financial resources on the part of defendants. That reduces possible revenue to $114.0. The new note for the Dept. of Corrections reduces costs to $540.0 for the first year. That cost is based on the same number of convictions used in estimating revenues. Senator Sharp remarked that although $114.0 in revenue is anticipated, and the fiscal note for the Dept. of Corrections has been cut in half, costs associated with the bill total approximately $1.2 million and will result in incarceration of an additional 300 people. He then voiced reluctance to pass the bill until day-fine legislation is brought in line. Senator Phillips suggested that a lien for the unpaid fine be placed against other property if the defendant's automobile is not of sufficient value. Co-chairman Halford asked that legislative staff and representatives of impacted departments come before committee. JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant, Dept. of Corrections; JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor Vehicles, Dept. of Public Safety; and DANIELLA LOPER, aide to Representative Porter, came forward. Senator Phillips suggested that defendants covered by the proposed bill traditionally drive junker cars with little worth. They cannot afford to pay their fines, and it costs too much to put them in jail. He then suggested that other property be seized. Juanita Hensley concurred in frustration associated with definitive action against drunk drivers. Experience over the past 15 years evidences that the majority of the defendants are third, fourth, and subsequent offenders who do not own their own cars. They drive automobiles of little value or borrow from friends. In applying its motor vehicle forfeiture law, the City of Anchorage found that many confiscated vehicles do not pass emission control inspection. The city then has to pay to have the vehicles destroyed. Mrs. Hensley deferred comment on seizure of other property to the Dept. of Law. Mr. Shriner commented on information from the court system indicating little ability to collect fines or the cost of care from third and subsequent offenders. Senator Phillips reiterated need to seize something of value from defendants. Ms. Loper stressed that the proposed bill would commence evaluation of alcohol screening. That has never been done before. It is intended to provide evaluation regarding how to combat fourth and fifth repeat offenders. Suspended jail time will also be imposed upon the convicted felon in the hope that it will be a deterrent. The bill also authorizes the Court System to utilize rehabilitative measures such as drug therapy, etc. Discussion of application of subsection (q) followed between Senator Rieger and Ms. Loper. Ms. Loper explained that the fine would be equal across the board, regardless of whether the defendant is indigent or wealthy. Mrs. Hensley concurred that the Court System assesses a fine for everyone. However, it also determines whether a person can pay the fine. If found to be indigent, the defendant does not pay. A finding of indigency is a separate proceeding. Language in the proposed bill says that the court may not suspend imposition of sentence on these defendants. It must assess the $5,000 fine and impose jail time. Senator Rieger next directed attention to page 1 of the bill and attested to ongoing discussion of the difference between "reasonable" and "probable" cause. He then attested to a greater level of comfort with "probable cause" and MOVED to substitute "probable" for "reasonable" at page 1, line 8. No objection having been raised, the AMENDMENT was ADOPTED. Senator Zharoff voiced concern that abuse could result from provisions allowing for arrest without a warrant for alcohol related crimes. Co-chairman Halford remarked that the standard of probable cause is the standard for initiating action by a police officer for all crimes. Referencing language at page 1, line 11, Senator Zharoff raised a question concerning addition of "or an ordinance with similar elements." Ms. Loper explained that the language was added "so that municipalities may be able to use this law." Juanita Hensley added that AS 04.16.050 relates to possession, control, and consumption of alcohol by persons under twenty-one. It does not relate to sale of alcohol. Discussion of warrant arrest followed between Senator Rieger and Ms. Loper. Senator Rieger asked if warrantless arrest also allows for search. Ms. Loper responded negatively. The Senator stressed that the bill should not provide a loophole for warrantless searches. Senator Rieger MOVED for passage of SCS CSHB 159 (Fin) with individual recommendations. Senator Zharoff OBJECTED. Co- chairman Halford acknowledged a bare quorum of four members in attendance and objection to passage. He then directed that the bill be held in committee for full attendance. RECESS The meeting was recessed at 1:25 p.m., subject to recall by the chair, for possible continued discussion later in the day.