MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE February 26, 1993 9:15 a.m. TAPES SFC-93, #33, Side 1 (000-363) CALL TO ORDER Senator Drue Pearce, Co-chair, convened the meeting at approximately 9:15 a.m. PRESENT All members (Co-chairs Pearce and Frank, and Senators Jacko, Kelly, Kerttula, Rieger, and Sharp) were present. ALSO ATTENDING: Senator Halford; Marcia McKenzie, American Association of University Women; Judith Cavanaugh, Juneau Coalition for Pro-choice; Caren Robinson, League of Women Voters; Sherrie Goll, Alaska Women's Lobby; Jen Tucci; William Burk; and aides to committee members and other members of the legislature. SUMMARY INFORMATION SB 53 - Act annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program; and providing for an effective date. CSSB 53 (Fin) (New Title, see p. 6 of these minutes.) was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass" recommendation and the following fiscal notes: DH&SS, AFDC (297.3) DH&SS, Medicaid Facilities (454.0) DH&SS, Medical Non-Facility (694.4) DH&SS, General Relief Medical 288.7 DH&SS, Claims Processing ( 74.2) SB 54 - Act relating to violations of laws by juveniles; and providing for an effective date. CSSB 54 (Fin) (New Title, see p. 2 of these minutes.) was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass" recommendation and the following fiscal notes: SFC/DOA, Public, Advocacy 22.5 SFC/DOA, Public, Defender 6.0 SFC/Courts 24.5 DOLaw -0- DPS -0- DOCorrections 10.8 SENATE BILL NO. 54 An Act relating to violations of laws by juveniles; and providing for an effective date. Co-chair Drue Pearce directed that SB 54 be brought on for discussion and noted that the committee adopted a draft committee substitute (8-LS0384\Q, 2/24/93, Chenoweth) at a previous meeting. She further directed attention to new fiscal notes for the Office of Public Advocacy, Public Defender, and Alaska Court System. Co-chairman Steve Frank asked that committee attention revert to an amendment offered by Senator Rieger at a previous hearing on the bill. The Co-chair explained that he had since changed his opinion regarding the appropriateness of the amendment and would offer it for committee consideration. He then MOVED for unanimous approval. Co-chair Pearce clarified that the proposed amendment would remove Sec. 9 from a previously adopted amendment by Co-chair Frank. She then called for objections to the motion. No objection having been raised, Senator Rieger's amendment was ADOPTED. Senator Kelly MOVED that CSSB 54 (Finance) pass from committee with individual recommendations. No objection having been raised, CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 54(FIN) (An Act relating to violations of laws by juveniles, to the remedies for offenses and activities committed by juveniles and to records of those offenses, and to incarceration of juveniles who have been charged, prosecuted, or convicted as adults; and providing for an effective date) was REPORTED OUT of committee with the following fiscal notes: SFC/DOA, Public, Advocacy 22.5 SFC/DOA, Public, Defender 6.0 SFC/Courts 24.5 DOLaw -0- DPS -0- DOCorrections 10.8 All members signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation, with the exception of Senator Kerttula who signed "no rec." SENATE BILL NO. 53 An Act annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program; and providing for an effective date. Co-chair Pearce directed that SB 53 be brought on for discussion and referred to a draft committee substitute (8- LS0343\J, Lauterback, 2/23/93). Senator Rieger MOVED for adoption of the draft as a Senate Finance Committee Substitute. Senator Kelly OBJECTED. Senator Kerttula called for the question. Co-chair Pearce directed that a roll call vote be taken. YEA: Rieger, Kerttula, Jacko, Frank, Pearce NAY: Kelly Sharp The motion carried on a vote of 5 to 2, and CSSB 53 (Finance) was ADOPTED. Senator Rieger explained that the major difference between CSSB 53 (Finance) and the original bill is language that places in statutes the situation prior to adoption of the regulations. It precludes re-adoption of the same regulations at a later time. The original bill merely repealed the regulations, while the committee substitute sets repeal of the regulations in statutes. Speaking to the fiscal notes accompanying the bill, Senator Rieger explained that positive fiscal impact was associated with promulgation of the regulations. Repeal of the regulations, in effect, undoes that positive impact. The fiscal notes accompanying SB 53 are thus negative. Senator Rieger acknowledged that the positive impact of promulgation and the negative impact of repeal do not exactly match. He advised that he had not had an opportunity to reconcile the difference. The end result, however, is a net negative fiscal note. Senator Sharp directed attention to the following language set forth within Sec. 2 of CSSB 53 (Finance): The department shall pay for abortion procedures under this chapter to the extent permitted under federal law. He then referenced the following subsection and advised that it appears to cover abortion procedures not covered under federal law from state general funds. Senator Rieger concurred. Senator Sharp commented that CSSB 53 (Finance) does more than simply void the regulations promulgated by the administration. Senator Rieger explained that abortions were paid for under Medicaid until precluded by federal regulations. For a number of years, the state first looked to Medicaid reimbursement. Since that is not now available, coverage is provided under the general relief medical program. The statutes were never changed to reflect the fact that federal Medicaid regulations had changed. The above-noted subsections reflect the practice prior to adoption of the regulations. Senator Sharp asked if the proposed bill would expand eligibility beyond the economic threshold offered under Medicare. Senator Rieger responded, "I don't think so. It never came up, and I don't see how it could." Eligibility for Medicaid and eligibility for general relief medical are both described elsewhere in statutes. WILLIAM BURK next came before committee to speak to the bill. He urged passage of SB 53, saying it would be cheaper for the state to fund abortions than it would be to keep children on welfare rolls and public assistance. Mr. Burk said he had worked as a social worker and had seen the results of unwanted children. By the time they are two years old, nine out of ten are on the AFDC rolls. The state then has to pay foster parents, welfare, Medicaid, etc. Mr. Burk noted that the United States was founded on separation of church and state. He then voiced his belief that the regulations were adopted at the urging of "right- wing, conservative, christian fundamentalists." Mr. Burk voiced his belief that a woman should have a choice, and he suggested that abortions would be performed whether or not they are funded by the state. The rich have always had an opportunity for an abortion. Poor women are the ones who have suffered. MARCIA McKENZIE, American Association of University Women, next came before committee. She voiced support for a woman's right to self-determination and reproductive rights. She further voiced support for CSSB 53 (Finance) and urged passage. Ms. McKenzie acknowledged that abortion services in Alaska are costly. When travel is included, the cost can become prohibitive. Alaska's rate of teen pregnancy remains among the highest in the nation. A young person having an unwanted child often faces poverty and bitterness caused by "removal of opportunity" for a better life. Approximately 20,000 children (5% of Alaska's population) are currently being raised by single parents supported by public funding. The cost far outstrips the cost of terminating unwanted pregnancies. Ms. McKenzie further attested to the psychological burden of an unwanted pregnancy on both the mother and the child. Further, the legislation will remove the unwarranted intrusion of government into the most private aspects of health care for women who cannot afford medical care on their own. The regulations stipulate that abortion would be covered by general relief medical in cases of rape, incest, or when a mother's life is in danger. Ms. McKenzie stressed the traumatic impact of rape and incest, and advised that often a woman does not wish to reveal how she became pregnant. It would be extremely difficult for women who would be required to document the cause of their pregnancy under strict enforcement of the proposed regulations. Ms. McKenzie stressed that, under the separation of church and state, the termination of a pregnancy is an individual judgment that must be left to the woman. The proposed regulations would impose that decision and a particular moral code only on those who do not have the financial resources to deal with the situation on their own. In her concluding remarks, Ms. McKenzie posed the question: Is it fair that these women are deprived of control of their lives simply because of their financial situation? JEN TUCCI next came before committee. She urged passage of the legislation, saying that she supports a woman's right to choose. Ms. Tucci advised that the bill also relates to the basic right to privacy as well as discrimination against poor women. The decision of whether or not to have a child should not be based on whether or not an individual can pay for an abortion. JUDITH CAVANAUGH, Juneau Coalition for Pro-choice, next came before committee. She explained that the coalition consists of more than 400 individuals in the Juneau area. Through use of a mail survey and phone bank, the coalition compiled a data base of 3,800 registered, pro-choice, women supporters. Mr. Cavanaugh voiced support for CSSB 53 (Finance), advising that the bill will protect the constitutional right to privacy for all women by protecting the right to choose, regardless of income level. The coalition opposed the regulations when they were first introduced, and it was successful in getting more than 700 people in Juneau to voice their opposition to the regulations during the comment period. Opposition to the regulations focuses upon: 1. Alaska's Constitution which includes a broad right to privacy clause that protects a woman's right to choose, regardless of whether she is rich or poor. 2. The fact that the strictest abortion laws in the world do not stop abortions. At issue is whether low income women and teenagers in Alaska will have access to safe abortion services or must seek desperate help elsewhere. The regulations place an undue burden on "poor women in rural and Southeast Alaska where abortion services are not available at this time." The regulations will force these women to seek unsafe abortions or to bear children they do not want and cannot support. The potential social costs of the regulations are enormous. Unwanted children in Alaska often become wards of the state at great cost to all. Mr. Cavanaugh urged support for the bill. CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, next came before committee. She voiced support for CSSB 53 (Finance) on behalf of the League's 400 members and urged passage. SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, next came before committee, voicing support for CSSB 53 (Finance) and urging that it move forward. She noted that should the bill pass and withstand the Governor's veto, it would provide an additional savings in the form of legal costs that would not have to be expended to defend the constitutionality of the regulations. Senator Kerttula MOVED for passage of CSSB 53 (Finance) with individual recommendations. Senator Sharp OBJECTED. He then noted that testimony pointed out that there are now approximately 20,000 dependent children. This situation occurred while abortion was an available option. It is thus questionable whether the proposed bill will have a meaningful effect. The Senator further advised that he resented the implication that religion is involved. The bill contains no reference thereto. Senator Kelly also voiced OBJECTION, stating, "I really object to the committee substitute." He said it goes far beyond "anything that's been discussed." He suggested that a good word for it would be "greedy," and he further suggested that it makes certain there will be enough votes to sustain the Governor's veto. Senator Rieger acknowledged comments by Senator Sharp that the primary focus of repeal of the regulations relates to the right to choose rather than the fiscal effect, the impact on the number of dependent children, or religious considerations. He said his support for the bill stems from the "desirability of having a woman's right to choose protected." Senator Sharp explained that he supported the original version of the bill, when it was before Senate Health & Social Services Committee. He then voiced continued support for that version, saying that CSSB 53 (Finance) appears to set the legislation up for negative reaction from the administration. That may negate total legislative efforts. Co-chair Pearce directed that a roll call vote be taken on the MOTION for passage of CSSB 53 (Finance): YEA: Jacko, Kerttula, Rieger, Frank, Pearce NAY: Kelly, Sharp The motion CARRIED on a vote of 5 to 2, and CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 53(FIN) (An Act relating to payment for abortions under Medicaid and general relief medical assistance; annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program; and providing for an effective date) was REPORTED OUT of committee with the following fiscal notes: DH&SS, AFDC (297.3) DH&SS, Medicaid Facilities (454.0) DH&SS, Medical Non-Facility (694.4) DH&SS, General Relief Medical 288.7 DH&SS, Claims Processing ( 74.2) Co-chair Frank and Senators Jacko, Rieger, and Kerttula signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation. Co-chair Pearce signed "do pass w/out amendment." Senators Kelly and Sharp signed "do not pass." ANNOUNCEMENTS Co-chair Pearce announced that the following legislation would be heard March 1, 1993, at 9:00 a.m.: SB 19 CRIME OF CONSPIRACY SB 46 AUTHORIZE MOOSE FARMING SB 49 YEAR-END CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS ADJOURNMENT There being nothing further to come before committee at this time, the meeting was adjourned at approximately 9:45 a.m.