HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE March 23, 2000 1:08 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman Representative Beverly Masek Representative Bill Hudson Representative John Cowdery Representative Allen Kemplen Representative Vic Kohring MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Albert Kookesh COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 205 "An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport hunters and game across the Dalton Highway corridor." - MOVED CSHB 205(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 426 "An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSHB 426(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 205 SHORT TITLE: SNOW MACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 4/20/99 884 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 4/20/99 884 (H) TRA 2/03/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17 2/03/00 (H) -- Meeting Canceled -- 3/23/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 426 SHORT TITLE: TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 2/28/00 2336 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 2/28/00 2336 (H) TRA, RES, FIN 2/28/00 2336 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, DOT) 2/28/00 2336 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER 2/28/00 2336 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION 3/23/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17 WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 405 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 205. GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison Office of the Commissioner Department of Fish & Game PO Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 205. DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director Division of Wildlife Conservation Department of Fish & Game PO Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 205 and its impact on the permitting process for muskox. DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant Office of the Commissioner Department of Transportation & Public Facilities 3132 Channel Drive Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 426. WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director of External Affairs Alaska Railroad Corporation Department of Community & Economic Development PO Box 107500 Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 426. RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails Central Office Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation Department of Natural Resources 3601 C Street, suite 1200 Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5921 POSITION STATEMENT: Announced his presence in the event there were any questions. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 00-23, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:08 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Halcro, Hudson, Cowdery and Kohring. Representatives Masek and Kemplen arrived as the meeting was in progress. HB 205 - SNOWMACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill 205, "An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport hunters and game across the Dalton Highway corridor." There is a proposed committee substitute. CHAIRMAN HALCRO entertained a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute. Number 0074 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON made a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute for HB 205, version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle, 5/4/99. There being no objection, Version G was before the committee. REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee to testify as sponsor of the bill. He noted that the proposed committee substitute changes the language on page 1, line 13, from "... the use of a snow machine to transport a hunter or game across ..." to "... the use of a snow machine to travel across ..." The language was changed in recognition of the travel that occurs between communities in the affected area. Number 0132 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE continued. He explained that a few years ago the Board of Game established a food hunt for muskox in the central Arctic region. The board recognized that individuals from Nuiqsut would have to cross the Dalton Highway corridor on their snow machine in order to access the hunting grounds. They attempted to provide for this access but were advised by the Department of Law that a change in statute was needed. He noted that on each side of the Dalton Highway there is a 5-mile corridor that restricts any ground transportation, except what is necessary for the highway. He pointed out that the individuals from Nuiqsut and Kaktovik would not be hunting within the corridor but crossing it. Number 0258 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether the residents in that area would be allowed to hunt in the corridor. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "No." REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule, What is the principal animal that they are going to hunt? REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied the principal animals are caribou and muskox. He reiterated that this issue was started as the result of the establishment of a muskox hunt by the Board of Game. Number 0312 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether access to the corridor is open to everybody. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied access to the corridor is for those who need to travel across the corridor. In other words, individuals could not bring their snow machines to the Dalton Highway and originate their travel from within the corridor. It's simply for those traveling across the corridor. Number 0360 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether he's saying that access to the corridor would be limited to local residents. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "Yes." REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether muskox require the use of a hunting license. In other words: Can everybody hunt muskox? REPRESENTATIVE JOULE deferred the question to a representative of the Department of Fish & Game. Number 0419 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to testify. The department is in support of the proposed committee substitute. The law needs to be changed in order to allow individuals to gain access to the muskox hunt. It also reflects the changing distribution of caribou and moose for harvesting. He noted that the Board of Game passed a regulation to allow for access, with the department's support, but it was then determined by the Department of Law that the legislature needed to make the change in statute. Number 0498 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether anybody who lives in the villages would have access to the corridor and game. MR. BRUCE replied nobody can originate travel from within the corridor, but anybody can originate travel from outside the corridor and cross it. This is not a legal limitation but a practical limitation. He said, While it is most feasible for folks that live in that area to avail themselves of this provision, there's no legal restriction, I don't believe, why other folks couldn't do it, if they were in a position to take advantage of it. Number 0576 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he could cross the corridor if he flew to one of the villages and rented a snow machine. MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes." REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he would have to have a permit to take a caribou. MR. BRUCE replied, "No." A hunt for caribou is based on seasons and bag limits. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce, What about the taking of muskox? MR. BRUCE replied a hunt for muskox is based on a permitting process. Number 0650 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether that permitting process is open to all. MR. BRUCE deferred the question to Mr. Doug Larsen of the Department of Fish & Game. Number 0669 DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to answer Representative Cowdery's question. He noted that a hunt for muskox is by permit. The take is limited to a harvest of four or five, and locals have a priority. Number 0693 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY commented that he can remember when buffalo was hunted by permit in certain areas, but the permitting process was open to all. Number 0725 CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether he feels that the title is tight enough so that it doesn't allow for travel to originate from within the corridor. MR. BRUCE replied he hopes so. The title appears to be pretty specific, but it really is a question for the bill drafter. CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether an attempt to originate travel from within the corridor would change the whole complexion of the bill. MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes." It would greatly change the character of hunting in the area. It would probably result in a Tier II hunt, which nobody likes. Number 0835 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether the effect of allowing a certain group of people to hunt muskox violates the constitution, for muskox are a resource and the constitution says resources are to be shared by all. MR. BRUCE replied this legislation deals strictly with allowing snow machines to travel across the corridor. But if more people availed themselves of the opportunity to hunt in that area, the department would have to place restrictions, which would affect everybody equally. A Tier II restriction, he noted, would be based on the availability of alternative resources and a history of the harvest of the resources. There would not be a place-of-residence factor. Number 0925 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated there is a restriction because of the permitting process. MR. BRUCE pointed out that the permitting process is outside the provenance of the legislation. He's not sure how the permitting process works; he would provide information to him later. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted that he would also like to see information on the constitutionality of the permitting process, since the resource is not available to all. Number 0968 CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether it's correct to say that this legislation simply has to do with a person getting from Point A to Point B, and that it doesn't matter whether the person is traveling for gas or to hunt. MR. BRUCE replied, "That is correct." CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony. Number 1009 REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK made a motion to move CSHB 205, version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle, 5/4/99, out of committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note; she asked unanimous consent. There being no objection, CSHB 205(TRA) so moved from the House Transportation Standing Committee. CHAIRMAN HALCRO called for a brief at-ease then called the meeting back to order. HB 426 - TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the next order of business as House Bill 426, "An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an effective date." There is a proposed amendment by Representative Halcro, which reads as follows: Page 1, line 5 Insert "..relocate adjacent utility facilities from Potter Station to Girdwood;" Number 1062 DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, came before the committee to present the bill. He explained that the Department of Natural Resources has management responsibility for the Chugach State Park, but they may not modify the boundaries of the park without legislative approval. The purpose of the proposed legislation, therefore, is to provide the Department of Natural Resources the ability to work with the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, the Alaska Railroad Corporation, and other utilities in order to modify, improve, upgrade and enhance easements, as necessary, instead of coming to the legislature for approval for each separate project. He noted that the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities has four or five future projects in the Seward Highway corridor within the boundaries of the Chugach State Park between Potter Station and Girdwood. Number 1165 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard how the legislation would affect the proposal for a rail spur in Girdwood, which is scheduled to run along the west side of the valley. Is that part of the Chugach State Park? MR. POSHARD replied he's not sure. He deferred the question to a representative of the Alaska Railroad Corporation. He has only studied the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities' projects. Number 1211 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether Potter Station is to the east of Potter Marsh. MR. POSHARD replied Potter Station is to the southwest of Potter Marsh on the boundary of the Chugach State Park. Number 1236 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether any proposal to widen the Seward Highway, for example, would affect the Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation [Department of Natural Resources]. MR. POSHARD replied he doesn't believe that Potter Marsh is within the boundaries of the Chugach State Park. Number 1277 CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Poshard whether the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities is "fine" with the proposed amendment, which tightens the title and makes it consistent with the text of the bill. MR. POSHARD replied the department is fine with the proposed amendment. It would not affect the department's projects. Number 1316 CHAIRMAN HALCRO noted that the proposed amendment should actually read as follows: Page 1, line 5 After: "facilities" Insert: "from Potter Station to Girdwood;" Number 1337 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Poshard whether the legislation would cover the requirement of the railroad to come before the legislature for approval to dispose of land. MR. POSHARD deferred the question to a representative of the Alaska Railroad Corporation. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked whether it's necessary to have a legal description of what is being done to the land. This legislation is pretty general. MR. POSHARD answered, at this point in time, the projects are still in the preliminary design stages. The specific tracts of land are not available, which is why the department is asking that the Department of Natural Resources have the authority to work with them. It essentially amounts to a swapping of corridors. Number 1445 WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director of External Affairs, Alaska Railroad Corporation, Department of Community & Economic Development, came before the committee to testify. She indicated that the legislation is defined to land within the Chugach State Park and to a corridor for the railroad. It has nothing to do with assets from the federal government, as Representative Cowdery alluded to earlier. There is a bill in the legislature now which deals with that issue. She further indicated, in response to Representative Kemplen's question, that this legislation would not affect the rail spur in Girdwood, for that land is owned by the Heritage Land Bank with the Municipality of Anchorage. Number 1500 RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails, Central Office, Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He announced that he is here today to let the committee know that there is a representative from the Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation available to answer any questions. CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony. Number 1532 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to adopt Amendment 1, as amended. There being no objection, Amendment 1 was so adopted. It reads as follows: Page 1, line 5 After: "facilities" Insert: "from Potter Station to Girdwood;" Number 1553 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HB 426, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal notes; he asked unanimous consent. There being no objection, CSHB 426(TRA) so moved from the House Transportation Standing Committee. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the committee, Chairman Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee meeting at 1:35 p.m.