HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE February 17, 1994 5:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Richard Foster, Chair Representative Eldon Mulder Representative Jerry Mackie MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair Representative Al Vezey Representative Bill Hudson Representative Curt Menard COMMITTEE CALENDAR Teleconferenced public hearing on Department of Transportation's use of weedkiller (RODEO) on highway rights-of-way. WITNESS REGISTER JONATHAN W. SCRIBNER Regional Director, Souteast Region Department of Transportation/Public Facilities (DOT/PF) 6860 Glacier Highway Juneau, AK 99801 465-1763 Position Statement: Provided DOT/PF position on RODEO PETER GOLL P.O. Box 850 Haines, AK 99827 766-2739 Position Statement: Testified in Juneau in opposition to use of RODEO KELLY WESTFALL P.O. Box 5193 Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-3561 Position Statement: Testified in favor of use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) BOB WATT 6227 S. Tongass Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-2795 Position Statement: Testified in favor of use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) SCOTT HURSEY P.O. Box 213 Petersburg, AK 99833 772-3967 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) KATHERINE SMITH 1193 Cooper Court Homer, AK 99603 235-5448 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) TRINA FELLOWS 266 E. Bayview Homer, AK 99603 235-8611 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) STEVE REED 4 Mile Zimovia Highway Wrangell, AK 99929 874-2258 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) MAGGIE FENNIMORE 3-1/2 Mile Zimovia Highway Wrangell, AK 99929 874-3525 Position Statement: Testified in support of use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) STEPHEN HELGESON 9 Mile Zimovia Highway Wrangell, AK 99929 874-3288 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) NATASHA CALVIN P.O. Box 2966 Sitka, AK 99835 747-8950 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) ERIC HOLLE P.O. Box 964 Haines, AK 99827 766-2295 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) DALE GOSNELL P.O. Box 611 Skagway, AK 99840 983-3134 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) CYNTHIA WILLIAMS P.O. Box 8 Skagway, AK 99840 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) LOUIE NELSON P.O Box 297 Haines, AK 99827 766-2458 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) JAMES FOSTER P.O. Box 9068 Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-7607 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) KATYA KIRSCH P.O. Box 22151 Juneau, AK 99801 463-3366 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO BECKY KNIGHT P.O. Box 1331 Petersburg, AK 99833 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) DENNIS HARRIS P.O. Box 21214 Juneau, AK 99802 586-2384 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO FLORIAN SEVER 1706 Edgecumbe Drive Sitka, AK 99835 747-8466 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO (Spoke via teleconference) PAULA TERREL 5025 Thane Road Juneau, AK 99801 586-3451 Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO The following people submitted written testimony at the LIO sites: JAMES McGOWAN 2310 Halibut Point Road Sitka, AK 99835 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO GALEN PAINE 329 Harbor Drive Rm. 203 Sitka, AK 99835 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO SUSAN ROYCE 1919 Cascade Creek Road Sitka, AK 99835 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO DORIS SMITH 3407 HPR Sitka, AK 99835 747-8807 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO BETSEY BURDETT P.O. Box 9143 Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-8829 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO GEOFFREY GROSS P.O. Box 9143 Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-8829 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO ROSEANNE REPPER 3101 Tongass Ketchikan, AK 99901 225-7806 Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing use of RODEO ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-4, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIR FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:12 p.m. Number 046 JON SCRIBNER identified himself as the Southeast Regional Director for the Department of Transportation/Public Facilities (DOT/PF), and thanked the committee for inviting him to speak on DOT's Brush Control Program. He said there is a real brush problem in Southeast Alaska and cited three reasons: brush growing along the road creates a safety problem by reducing visibility; the roots from the brush cause roadside damage via distress to the shoulders; and aesthetically, people are not able to view the overall scenery. These are the three reasons DOT/PF is attempting to address the issue. Number 063 MR. SCRIBNER stated that for the last 15 years, DOT/PF has exclusively used mechanical methods to attempt to remove brush from roadsides. But these methods were unable to keep the problem under control; so 2-1/2 years ago DOT/PF looked at other options, one of which was the use of chemicals. She said DOT/PF tested the use of RODEO in Petersburg and Klawock two years ago and the results were favorable. Number 74 MR. SCRIBNER predicted that DOT/PF would have to come back once every three to four years to reapply RODEO, and it would then be used in lesser quantities because it would only be targeted to new growth. According to Mr. Scribner, the RODEO killed the alder, but left the flowers and grasses. Number 83 MR. SCRIBNER reported that DOT/PF also took test samples of the soil and found that RODEO was in very minute quantities on the ground, in the soil, and directly underneath where it had been applied, and within two months that RODEO was starting to disappear, based on test results. Number 102 MR. SCRIBNER stated that DOT/PF concluded, based on all of the test results, that RODEO would be a fairly good chemical to use, and in 1993 applied for permits to enable it to use RODEO on a more widespread basis. Public hearings were held and the public was very concerned about the proposal. Number 116 According to MR. SCRIBNER, after the hearings it was clear to him that there were many questions and concerns which DOT/PF did not have answers to, and that DOT/PF shouldn't move forward with the propose, so he subsequently withdrew the permit applications with the DEC. Since then, Mr. Scribner claims the DOT/PF has gone back over the public testimony and recorded the questions and issues raised by the public in those hearings and has tried to address every one of those issues. Number 130 MR. SCRIBNER reported that DOT/PF responded to the public demand that they develop an integrated vegetation management control program by doing just that. The DOT/PF has also looked at the health concerns and tried all suggested alternatives, including steam generation, prison labor, new kinds of brushing machines, but none of these methods solved the problem; therefore, the DOT/PF developed a roadside management program which proposes that they just treat the guardrail in Southeast Alaska. Number 165 MR. SCRIBNER referred to an environmental impact statement prepared by the state of Washington on roadside vegetation management. Washington treats about 50% of their road rights-of-way, according to Mr. Scribner, and they use about 85,000 pounds of chemicals a year. He said Alaska's DOT/PF is proposing to use about 180 pounds. Washington uses 25 different chemicals, one of which is RODEO; in tests, they have determined that the risks of those chemicals is negligible in the manner that they are used by the state of Washington. Negligible was defined as the risk that one would incur by taking one transcontinental airline flight a year. Information such as this led Alaska's DOT/PF to conclude that they could apply RODEO in a safe way. Number 200 According to MR. SCRIBNER, RODEO works by absorbing into the roots of plants and killing them. He also stated that RODEO is the most widely used chemical in the world for herbicidal control and the most studied herbicide chemical. The EPA has placed RODEO in their most safe category, with regard to carcinogenic effects. That category states that there is evidence to suggest the substance is not a carcinogen. Number 228 MR. SCRIBNER alleged that RODEO does not leach independently into water and absorbs onto soil particles very strongly. He added that it biodegrades, on the average, in from 60 to 120 days, depending on the amount of bacteria in the soil. It is one of the few chemicals approved for use on water and in estuaries. Mr. Scribner cited organizations such as Ducks, Unlimited, The Sierra Club, and National Conservancy as users of RODEO. He further stated that RODEO is not absorbed into the bloodstream of animals; rather, it passes through and is excreted. Number 250 MR. SCRIBNER explained that, in the program DOT/PF has developed, the roadside is divided into three zones. The first zone is the recovery zone, which is to be kept clear for vehicular traffic; the second zone is down into the ditch and up the other side as far as the brushing equipment will reach; the third zone is to the outer sides of the rights-of-way. The DOT/PF is proposing the use of RODEO around the guardrail in zone 1A. Number 294 MR. SCRIBNER concluded by stating the DOT/PF would be having further public hearings on this issue within the next month. Number 304 CHAIR FOSTER thanked Mr. Scribner and announced to the committee that, due to the large number of people wishing to testify via teleconference, it would be appreciated if discussion be held to a minimum. Number 309 REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE wished to state, for the record, that he appreciated the opportunity for this hearing; and that staffers were in attendance from Representative Williams' and Senator Zharoff's offices. He also acknowledged the presence of Peter Goll. He stated that many people were very concerned about the detrimental impact on the health of berry pickers from RODEO. Number 329 PETER GOLL, Former Alaska State Representative, thanked Representative Mackie for making the meeting possible. He expressed concern about the health effects of the use of RODEO as proposed by DOT/PF and suggested an alternative method which the state might consider employing: hiring a couple of kids with chainsaws to cut the brush for very little money. Mr. Goll concluded by respectfully recommending that clear direction from the legislature to DOT/PF was needed in order to put this issue to rest for good. Number 412 KELLY WESTFALL, via teleconference from Ketchikan, expressed himself as favoring the use of RODEO on roadside rights-of- ways. Number 425 BOB WATT, via teleconference from Ketchikan, agreed with Mr. Westfall, and added that the issue was one of highway safety. He stated that the suggestion of youngsters using chainsaws was an incredibly dangerous idea, and concluded by expressing his overall favor with using RODEO. Number 454 SCOTT HURSEY, via teleconference from Petersburg, expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the comments of Mr. Goll. Number 475 KATHERINE SMITH, via teleconference from Homer, expressed her opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the comments of the prior opposed testifiants. Number 503 TRINA FELLOWS, via teleconference from Homer, expressed her opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the comments of the prior opposed testifiants. Number 512 STEVE REED, via teleconference from Wrangell, expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the comments of the prior opposed testifiants. Number 525 MAGGIE FENNIMORE, via teleconference from Wrangell, expressed her support of using RODEO along the guardrails. Number 534 STEPHEN HELGESON, via teleconference from Wrangell, expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the concerns of prior opposed testifiants. Number 545 NATASHA CALVIN, via teleconference from Sitka, identified herself as having a Master's Degree in science and biology and experience as a research biologist. She expressed opposition to the use of RODEO, and cited past incidents where chemicals were purportedly not harmful to human beings, but it was discovered later that the data had been rigged. She suggested the use of school children with hand clippers as the solution to roadside brush. Number 569 ERIC HOLLE, via teleconference from Haines, expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO, thanked Representative Mackie for his interest, and identified himself as the president of the Lynn Canal Conservation Group, and stated that his group had available written literature regarding RODEO. He stressed the unity of opposition to RODEO and concurred, in substance, with the concerns expressed by prior opposed testifiants. **THE FOLLOWING TESTIMONY WAS NOT RECORDED, ONLY TAKEN FROM WRITTEN NOTES: DALE GOSNELL, via teleconference from Skagway, expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO and wondered what the management strategy was. MR. SCRIBNER replied that DOT/PF would spray in the fall and cut down the brush in the spring. Subsequent applications would be much lighter. CYNTHIA WILLIAMS, via teleconference from Skagway, expressed opposition to RODEO and commented that there isn't that much guard rail anyway. LOUIE NELSON, via teleconference from Haines, concurred with the testimony of Mr. Goll, and added that there's nothing wrong with traffic being slowed down. JAMES FOSTER, via teleconference from Ketchikan, expressed his opposition to RODEO due to his own participation in berry picking along the road. KATYA KIRSCH, testifying in Juneau, identified herself as being with the Alaska Environmental Lobby, and expressed the opinion that cost is irrelevant in light of potential health risks. BECKY KNIGHT, via teleconference from Petersburg, expressed opposition to the use of RODEO. DENNIS HARRIS, testifying in Juneau, expressed opposition to the use of RODEO. REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE thanked the participants and concurred with all those who had expressed concern over the possible ill-effects of using RODEO on rights-of-way. FLORIAN SEVER, via teleconference from Sitka, expressed opposition to the use of RODEO. PAULA TERREL, testifying in Juneau, identified herself as being with the Thane Road Homeowner's Association and expressed opposition to the use of RODEO, whether there was a risk or not, because even a perceived risk is too much of a risk. CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 6:25 p.m. The following people submitted written testimony at the LIO sites opposing the use of RODEO: JAMES MCGOWAN, Sitka GALEN PAINE, Sitka SUSAN ROYCE, Sitka DORIS SMITH, Sitka BETSEY BURDETT, Ketchikan GEOFFREY GROSS, Ketchikan ROSEANNE REPPER, Ketchikan