HOUSE MILITARY SCHOOLS TASK FORCE PUBLIC HEARING September 8, 1993 1:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Mulder Representative Martin Representative Willis Senator Leman Bonnie Carroll Sue Wilken Captain Dennis Porter Colonel George Vakalis Lt. Colonel David Melcher Janet Stokesbury Barbara Martin Nancy Miller MEMBERS ABSENT Patty Norheim COMMITTEE CALENDAR First Public Hearing of the House Military Schools Task Force WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, Chair House Military Schools Task Force Alaska State Legislature 716 W. 4th Avenue, Ste. 310 Anchorage, AK 99501 CAPTAIN DENNIS PORTER ALCOM 1700 7th Street, Unit B Elmendorf AFB, AK 99506 JANET STOKESBURY Chief Financial Officer Anchorage School District P.O. Box 196614 Anchorage, AK 99519 REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN Alaska State Legislature 716 W. 4th Avenue, Ste. 650 Anchorage, AK 99501 COLONEL GEORGE VAKALIS Garrison Commander ATTN: APVR-GC Fort Richardson, AK 99505 BARBARA MARTIN Asst. Superintendent for Business and Finance Fairbanks School District P.O. Box 71250 Fairbanks, AK 99707 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES Alaska State Legislature P.O. Box 56622 North Pole, AK 99705 SENATOR LOREN LEMAN Alaska State Legislature 716 W. 4th Avenue, Ste. 540 Anchorage, AK 99501 LT. COLONEL DAVID MELCHER U.S. Army 1372 Normandy Ct. Ft. Wainwright, AK 99703 NANCY MILLER Parent Advocacy Committee 7350 B J Street Elmendorf AFB, AK 99506 BONNIE CARROLL Governor's Appointee 501 Donna Drive Anchorage, AK 99501 SUE WILKEN Governor's Appointee 2600 Riverview Drive Fairbanks, AK 99709 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS Alaska State Legislature 11940 Business Boulevard Eagle River, AK 99577 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-1, SIDE A Number 006 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE, called the meeting to order at 1:42 p.m. He announced that it would be an informal meeting. Present were Representative Willis, Senator Leman, Sue Wilken, Bonnie Carroll, Captain Dennis Porter, Colonel George Vakalis, Lt. Colonel David Melcher, Barbara Martin, Janet Stokesbury, Nancy Miller. Representative Jeannette James was present by teleconference hookup in Fairbanks. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER introduced the members present to each other and explained that the focus of this meeting was to give an overview of the situation before the task force, introduce everyone to each other, discuss where the task force was headed and establish goals and objectives it would like to accomplish. He also explained that the task force would define its scope of work for the remainder of the year. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER introduced Captain Porter to give an overview to the task force members. Number 047 CAPTAIN DENNIS PORTER, ALCOM, presented his Point Paper on Schools on Military Installations. It summarized the current situation. See attachment. Captain Porter stated where they currently were on the on-base priority list; $3.9 million was allocated from the U.S. Department of Education for Taylor and Pennel elementary schools on Eielson Air Force Base and $4.9 million for Ursa Major elementary on Fort Richardson. He stated that, to his knowledge, the money had not actually been transferred on either one of those, because the North Star Borough School District wanted to hold out for newer buildings, brand new schools, and Ursa Major still had a problem with a lease. Number 142 JANET STOKESBURY, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ANCHORAGE SCHOOL DISTRICT, stated that the Anchorage School District should be receiving the grant (for Ursa Major) by the end of the month, but a transfer of the title of the building should come in by the end of the week and the quit claim deed and the actual allotment (indiscernible) lease would take six years. A letter of understanding has been signed by all parties within the military and the U.S. Department of Education as well as the municipality on behalf of the school district. She stated the U.S. Department of Education has indicated that the school district should be getting a grant by September 30. She noted they will initially get 10 percent of the funding, approximately $496,000, and when the construction contract is awarded, they will get 50 percent of the grant money. Number 155 CAPTAIN PORTER discussed when the transfer action would take place. He said the school probably would not be transferred until two summers after construction was completed. He said the task force may want to look at a way to transfer the schools to the local school districts once the money was awarded versus once the construction was completed, so the money would not take so long to get out to the actual schools. CAPTAIN PORTER stated the original funding agreement was very vague, but now might be the time to assign responsibilities and somehow make closure. CAPTAIN PORTER then addressed the future requirements of funds. He stated that a funding plan of attack would need to be established, and that was his goal for the task force. Pressure would have to be put on the U.S. Department of Education to try to expedite funding, state matching funds should be approached as a source, and a Washington, D.C. based task force should be established, similar to the one here. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated for the record that Representative Martin had joined them. Number 190 REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN, ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE, had two questions: Would there be any percentage take off by the Anchorage School Board on the grant about to be received; for example, for administration costs, processing costs, etc. and would the money go straight for construction? Number 196 MS. STOKESBURY responded that since they had not actually received the grant award, they had not received any indication as to whether there would be any administrative costs. She also noted that it was a fact that $4.9 million would be the limit. Anything, such as any cost increases due to unforeseen circumstances beyond that would have to be absorbed by the Anchorage School District. Number 205 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN asked Ms. Stokesbury to tell Superintendent Christal that he would not consider it friendly if the school district were to take 25 percent off the top for processing costs or administrative costs. Number 209 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that he believed Representative Martin was referring to the fact that when the state makes a grant to the City of Anchorage and it goes through the municipality, a 10 percent administrative charge is taken off the top. Number 215 MS. STOKESBURY responded that in the past, the district had had an administrative fee, ranging from two to six percent, depending on whether or not there was an outside project manager. If it was done in-house, it was usually around four percent. Number 219 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN suggested that perhaps Captain Porter could monitor the situation and indicate what would be reasonable. Number 225 MS. STOKESBURY responded that they would figure out the costs necessary. Number 226 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN posed his second question: Would the general contractor be responsible for the construction bond, so the military or Anchorage would not have to have bonding over and above what the general contract does? Number 231 CAPTAIN PORTER reiterated that the school district would be responsible for anything over the allocated $4.9 million. He inquired if they could not bond for money, where would it come from? He noted that schools needed to be transferred as soon as possible so that processing could start more immediately. That way if they went over the $4.9 million, there would be a source to get it without having to create something. REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN suggested matching funds from the legislators who represent each of the communities, to help handle this problem for a while. Number 244 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked why Ursa Major elementary was being transferred now, but not Ursa Minor and Kennedy elementary schools. Was that only because of the financial upgrade at Ursa Major? Would Ursa Minor and Kennedy not be transferred until money was available for the upgrades? Number 247 MS. STOKESBURY said the district and Municipality of Anchorage were unwilling to take possession of the schools until they were brought up to current standards, building codes, etc. Ursa Major was the only school being transferred at this time because it was the only one that the federal government had appropriated funds for. Number 260 COLONEL GEORGE VIKALIS, GARRISON COMMANDER, FORT RICHARDSON, stated this had been in the bill for about five years and was finally coming to fruition. Each school was addressed separately as opposed to the whole program. Number 264 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER gave a brief explanation of the financial perspective by stating that if the school district did not technically own the building and the land, it could not bond for it. It was a catch 22 situation because at the same time Anchorage did not like taking over possession until the upgrades were made. He then asked Janet Stokesbury to give a brief overview of the school district's perspective on military schools and what they had done and were thinking about doing. Number 275 MS. STOKESBURY said they reviewed the cost estimates and project scope descriptions. They did receive some state funding during the interim from the time the original cost estimates were done by HMS and last October when they started going through the formal process. The school district now had a revised project scope that was approved by the U.S. Department of Education. She said they anticipated going forward with the project and being able to complete it within the $4.9 million. She said they also received funding for the roof on Mt. Spurr. That money, combined with the prior state funds they received two years ago, amounted to $1.2 million to put towards the Mt. Spurr roof. The district also received money through Senate Bill 60 for district wide roofs and they would do the west wing of Orion School. The project would be done next spring. MS. STOKESBURY reported that the district also received $25,000 for Kennedy, Ursa Major, and Ursa Minor for major maintenance through Senate Bill 183. She stated there were a lot of needs at the military schools. An outside engineering firm was contracted by the school district in 1991 to look at all the schools in the district and that was combined with the prior study by HMS in 1990. The school district is currently in the process of bringing those figures up to date, so it could have current cost estimates. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if anyone had any questions for Ms. Stokesbury. CAPTAIN PORTER thanked the school district for their help. He mentioned that $180,000 had been taken out of the undesignated fund as part of the matching for Orion School. He mentioned that the undesignated fund was not unlimited and if the schools were taken over ahead of time, this fund would not have to be used. Perhaps they could bond for a larger amount, whereas now, they would have to come up with another source. Number 349 COLONEL VAKALIS asked Captain Porter if he was proposing that this be included in the upcoming bonding issue to the Anchorage community? Number 351 CAPTAIN PORTER responded that it could not be included because they could not legally bond for the military schools before they had possession of them. He reiterated that this was why it should be done as soon as possible. He stated that a logical point would be when the monies were committed by the Department of Education. Number 356 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN spoke regarding federal impact monies going to local districts. According to the State Department of Education, part of that formula was for the maintenance of schools, not just the bodies attending. He maintained that the Anchorage community had received a certain amount of money for the maintenance of schools under the impact formula and had not used it for the schools. He said the Department of Education, under Commissioner Covey, maintained that part of that formula was for maintaining schools no matter where they were at. Representative Martin said he thought the Anchorage School District had an obligation and that a certain portion should be appropriated to the military schools. Number 376 COLONEL VAKALIS responded that Representative Martin was right and that was the case. However, the problem now was that the codes had changed from the time when the buildings were originally built, and they needed to be brought up to code. Number 392 MS. STOKESBURY stated that prior to fiscal year '92-'93, the federal impact money associated with the students who lived on base went to the State of Alaska, not to the Anchorage School District. The state, in turn, would allocate foundation money to the Anchorage School District and then an amount equivalent to the state tuition amount per student. Combined with that, the district had a contract with the state. She stated that Fairbanks had the same similar arrangement where within that contract major maintenance was left to the state and minor maintenance (defined as under $25,000) was the responsibility of the school district. Beginning in fiscal year '92-'93, at the direction of the federal government, the federal impact money now went directly to the actual school district. But because of the foundation formula, this resulted in a deduction to the Anchorage School district because it was getting the federal impact money, and then it would no longer receive the state tuition money. Ms. Stokesbury said that contract was currently in the process of being negotiated or written with the Department of Education. There was not an actual contract at this time. Number 443 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said now that the money was going directly it was natural that the City of Anchorage would get less in the foundation formula because the kids would not be paid for twice in two different formulas. He stated that in the long run Anchorage makes good money off of the military schools and that should not be sacrificed in building maintenance. The monies should be kept separate; those monies received for the military should be used directly for military. Number 462 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if Ms. Stokesbury was saying that prior to this current fiscal year the federal impact money was going through the State Department of Education, as opposed to coming directly to the school, and because of the foundation formula, Anchorage was not getting dollar for dollar for what it was being given from the federal government? Number 482 MS. STOKESBURY responded that yes, the State of Alaska was using the federal impact money as a revenue source and the school district was getting the same amount of foundation money for students on base as students off base. Number 488 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if that was less, per person, than what the federal government was providing the state, supposedly for the school district. By the time the federal government gave a dollar and it got to the school district, was the dollar that started there substantially less by the time it hit the school? Number 494 MS. STOKESBURY responded that under the new contract being negotiated with the State Department of Education for operating the on-base schools, the school district was finding that the combination of what it received with the foundation money as a state tuition money (as the old formula) for the Anchorage School District, was approximately $150-$200,000 more than when it got the federal money directly in the way the current formula was written. It was written so there was a deduction for a portion of the federal impact money and the district not receiving any state tuition. Ms. Stokesbury said the state had verbally stated that although they did not have a signed contract yet, this year it would make up that difference so there would not be a loss of revenue. Otherwise, it was possible that the Anchorage School District could lose money and the same for Fairbanks. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER repeated his previous question. He asked what percentage of the federal dollar was left after it had been watered down through the foundation formula. CAPTAIN PORTER responded that there was actually more money there. Adak lost money while Fairbanks and Anchorage made money; they got more than their dollar in 1991 from the U.S. Department of Education. However, now, they could lose money if it was done straight across. Number 556 BARBARA MARTIN, ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT FOR BUSINESS AND FINANCE, FAIRBANKS SCHOOL DISTRICT, stated that the task force should probably not get too bogged down with how the whole operating dollar aspect had shifted. She said she would be happy to prepare a summary of this history for a subsequent meeting, so members could understand what the differences were and the underlying principles. MS. MARTIN referred to a study conducted by the Division of Legislative Audit which looked at whether the funds flowing through the school districts and paying for the education in the military connected districts were being distributed to the students in a fair and equitable fashion. They also looked at who was responsible for the problems the facility was facing. The study concluded that there were a myriad of problems. MS. MARTIN continued by saying that the Fairbanks district had a study conducted in 1989 and updated in 1990 which investigated what the needs were of the military schools in the Fairbanks North Star Borough. The district came up with a plan based on that study. They worked with local legislators on problems and concerns and received a grant for $750,000 for some day-to-day materials in the schools. That money was spent on the military schools in Fairbanks. She also stated that Fairbanks had a progressive preventative maintenance program; U.S. Department of Education officials toured some of the schools and could not understand why Fairbanks was saying they had a problem. She stated they'd had a huge population influx and serious overcrowding resulted. The borough turned to the state, who agreed to commit to the problem. She referred to two new schools that resulted; Ladd elementary school, built to educate students that live on Fort Wainwright was funded entirely by the state, and another one called Arctic Light elementary was funded entirely out of the Department of Defense budget. Number 650 MS. MARTIN stated that Fairbanks hoped the needs of its secondary students on Fort Wainwright would be taken care of this fall through a bond issue for the building of a new high school. One of the other high schools would be turned into a junior high. MS. MARTIN then addressed Eielson Air Force Base. She said the U.S. Department of Education had set aside $3.9 million for the renovation of Taylor and Pennel elementary schools. Fairbanks believed that a better long term solution would be to build a new elementary school on the base. TAPE 93-1, SIDE B Number 000 MS. MARTIN thanked Representative James for her help in obtaining a $600,000 grant through Senate Bill 60 to allow Fairbanks to start preliminary work on the school. They were currently working on that grant application. After this new school is built, Fairbanks School District wants to renovate the Eielson junior and senior high school and renovate Anderson elementary. Number 022 COLONEL VAKALIS asked a question about the Chena school. Was the plan to keep Chena at the present status quo but then dispose of it, perhaps through the Department of Education, once the new school was built? Number 036 MS. MARTIN responded yes, that was pretty accurate. Number 050 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if Chena and Birch elementary schools could be eliminated from the on-base priority list. Number 053 MS. MARTIN responded that more than that could be eliminated. She said that numbers one (Taylor elementary) and two (Pennel elementary) remained and they were the highest priorities on Eielson Air Force Base. Number 054 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that $3.9 million was committed toward that. Number 055 MS. MARTIN said yes, plus $600,000 from the state government. Number 056 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if that was basically just to research how much it would cost to build a new one. MS. MARTIN said she thought it would go further into actual precise designing and initial planning. She said she believed this was the intent. Number 060 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if there was a rough estimate as to how much it was going to run. MS. MARTIN responded that she did not have that number with her. Number 062 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE, said that when she got the $600,000 last year in the budget, she asked someone what it would take to get the bid ready. She said the $600,000 had been identified for getting the project ready and identifying cost so they would know how much it was going to cost and the rest of the money they would need. Number 066 MS. MARTIN said the district had used prototypical design, a plan they owned. She said there were several schools using it, updating it and improving it. She said they assumed they would use that similar design which would save a tremendous amount of architectural costs. Number 070 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she needed to know what the money was, because she would be looking for it from the legislature in the next term. Number 072 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he hoped that if the group worked together they could come up with a package backed up by legislators, citizens of the community, school districts, and military bases, that would accomplish all of the objectives. Number 079 MS. MARTIN continued by saying that for now, the Chena elementary status quo was fine. She stated the Fairbanks school board had acted the previous night to surplus Birch elementary and they would be working between the state and U.S. Departments of Education to find disposition for that building. Anderson elementary and Ben Eielson junior and senior high would then be the next step. Number 089 CAPTAIN PORTER posed a question regarding the agreement between Chena and Birch elementary. Number 092 COLONEL VAKALIS responded that the agreement initially originated between the district and the community at Fort Wainwright. He said that discussions also took place with the state Department of Education, and further discussion took place with the U.S. Department of Education. He stated that they all agreed that they could remain status quo as long as it would not cost the Department of Education any money. So the agreement was to remain status quo and the district could go ahead and maintain the building. Number 101 CAPTAIN PORTER responded that he thought this further legitimized the task force because there was not really any official documentation that had been tracked by an official group pertaining to any other further agreements. Number 105 COLONEL VAKALIS said that he agreed. He said the army was only the initial facilitator because it was asked if it had any needs for the building. He said the army's concern was that the children were in an overcrowded situation. If a school building did not meet the code when it was put out of commission, and it was later decided to reuse it, you would have to put massive money in it to bring it up to code. He continued by saying that the army's concern and the offer that was mutually agreed upon was to go ahead and keep the building at status quo, and never close it, so they did not get caught with that problem. It would be used as a satellite school to take care of needs in the near future. That was what was worked out between the district and the Department of Education. Number 118 CAPTAIN PORTER asked if Birch elementary had been officially closed or eliminated. Number 119 COLONEL VAKALIS said that was correct because the new school was open. He said that if the district had no need for it, they planned to go to the Department of Education and petition for it to be transferred. He stated that he thought there probably would be some need for it. Number 126 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he noticed from the list that there were no schools in Greely or Kodiak. Number 127 COLONEL VAKALIS responded that Kodiak was not his area. Number 129 CAPTAIN PORTER said that transfer had taken place almost immediately after the 1990 agreement. He said that Fort Greely and Kodiak were transferred because there was enough money in the U.S. Department of Education to pay for it. He estimated that it had been around $2.3 million to service both of them and transfer them immediately. He said he thought they had been transferred more because of money than priority. Number 145 COLONEL VAKALIS said he thought their remote location had had something to do with it. He said the negotiation at Fort Richardson had been going on for years and was finally coming to fruition. He also said that Greely was not a factor and he did not think Fort Wainwright was a factor either; they were really looking at Eielson, Fort Richardson, and Elmendorf. Number 158 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if the cost estimates were still applicable? Was the figure still $45 million to upgrade? Had requirements or costs changed? Number 164 MS. MARTIN responded that in Fairbanks, they had adjusted the budget for the elementary project on Eielson based on what they knew about the site that had been identified. She explained that those were just estimates. Number 172 COLONEL VAKALIS asked if the $40 million included Chena and Birch elementary. CAPTAIN PORTER responded that a dollar amount is put next to each one of the schools. The school district then looks at the next school on the list and tries to determine what the highest, most immediate needs of it are. Number 187 MS. STOKESBURY responded that since 1990, the building codes had changed in the school district. She said that because of other funding, they had been able to accomplish some items already, and the school district therefore felt it could bring Ursa Major up to code within the $4.9 million. She also said that there were other schools, however, where additional dollars would be needed. Number 195 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked for a cost analysis to be brought to the next task force meeting on September 30. Number 207 CAPTAIN PORTER said he agreed and thought it was a good idea, but he encouraged them to stay with what the U.S. Department of Education had agreed to in 1990. Number 211 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he understood; he just wanted to get a more concise number that everyone could feel comfortable with. Number 212 CAPTAIN PORTER said he had that information and could bring it in. Number 215 SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE asked Captain Porter to bring a breakdown for each project with the information. Number 220 CAPTAIN PORTER said he would and that it would consist mainly of code violations. Number 221 SENATOR LEMAN asked if there was a breakdown of the information. Number 222 CAPTAIN PORTER said there was a little bit of breakdown in the priority list and on the dollar amount, too. Number 225 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER raised the issue of touring the schools to see what they were actually talking about. He asked if members of the task force would find that helpful. Number 230 COLONEL VAKALIS said that Elmendorf had invited members of the school board to do this. He said they also went through Fort Richardson and it was very beneficial for them. Number 247 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that the task force would be having a meeting in Fairbanks, so they could do the same thing there, as well. Number 253 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES mentioned that physical disability requirements of the schools should also be considered. COLONEL VAKALIS stated that he thought all the schools had this problem. Number 259 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she thought they did too, and probably none of them were up to speed on this issue. Number 260 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Captain Porter if he recalled whether the requirements passed by ADA since 1990 had been taken into consideration. Number 264 CAPTAIN PORTER responded yes, and cited Ursa Major as one of the problems. Number 269 COLONEL VAKALIS said that someone should probably point out those problems to the district engineers. Number 274 MS. STOKESBURY stated she would be glad to arrange something for the morning of September 30. Number 276 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER invited Representative James to come down and take the tour with the rest of the members. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she would like to do that. Number 281 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN mentioned integrating the needs of the military school kids with the state school needs. He mentioned the possibility of inviting the Governor's office and Commissioner Covey to come up and look at the schools and make it a joint effort. He said that he thought, from a state level, that all the schools and kids should be treated equally, no matter where they were located and regardless of what agreement may have been made in the past. He stated that he felt the military had been paying its way but had not been getting services. Number 313 MS. STOKESBURY said the school district did a research project with General Ralston last spring, specifically on major maintenance, that showed over $800,000 had been spent on the military schools. This was in addition to regular preventative maintenance. She stated that some of them were above $25,000. She said they looked at the priorities of what was needed at the schools as they developed the budget. The military schools were not treated any differently when they were looking at general operations. Number 330 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER requested a list of the maintenance projects for the Anchorage and Fairbanks School Districts. Number 336 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN stated that he would open his mind to it if it was over and above the grants that the school district had gotten from the legislature. Number 338 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that in Fairbanks, staff were doing an extensive amount of maintenance to keep under the limit. She said she thought the schools needed more money for capital projects. Number 346 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER responded that there never seemed to be enough money for capital projects. Number 348 COLONEL VAKALIS asked how the military schools rated compared to the others on a total priority list of schools. Number 357 MS. STOKESBURY referred to a 1991 study and stated that all the schools had been looked at in Anchorage and ranked on a grid. It showed that the military schools were not on the bottom. Number 370 COLONEL VAKALIS asked about the schools in Fairbanks. Number 371 MS. MARTIN responded that a CIP list showed what had been submitted to the state this year as their priorities. Number 374 LT. COLONEL DAVID MELCHER, U.S. ARMY, said that Eielson Air Force Base was the number one priority. Anderson elementary and Ben Eielson high school were on the list for improvements in 1996 and 1997. He stated that he thought military schools were getting their due in the Fairbanks area. Number 379 CAPTAIN PORTER said the 1991 study showed that Mt. Spurr was the fifth worst school in Anchorage. He said that on the list of priorities it was number 13, and was now down to number 11. He said the study was much more in-depth than what had been found in 1990. Number 397 COLONEL VAKALIS said he was not inferring that military schools were in any worse shape in the local area. He said the problem with them was the question of who owned them. Number 401 CAPTAIN PORTER agreed that was the problem. Number 403 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said once the ownership question was resolved, the overall problem could be readdressed more realistically. He said he believed the military in Fairbanks and Anchorage had been accepted as an integral part of the community and were very important to the economy. Number 410 COLONEL VAKALIS said he had never been anywhere that supported its military community as well as Anchorage and Fairbanks. Number 418 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER thanked people for participating and thought government should work in this fashion. That is, by bringing people together in the community; school districts, military, and the legislature to try to overcome this problem. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER introduced Nancy Miller. Number 436 NANCY MILLER, PARENT ADVOCACY COMMITTEE, stated that out of the seven on-base schools in the Anchorage area, five were in the top 50 percent of the neediest schools in the district. She also said that the on-base schools had been built between 1964 and 1962. She said she got involved with the task force when she found out the condition of Mt. Spurr school, which her children attend. She said she was excited about what the task force could accomplish. Number 481 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if anyone else on the task force had another perspective or something they thought should be focused on in the near future. Number 484 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN mentioned that he had seen some of the schools in Magadan and they were much worse. He said he planned to send letters to the PTA regarding sending books to the different schools there. In turn, Russian books would be sent to Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said he thought that, under the new reapportionment plan, the military now had true representation in the legislature, and this should really help the schools there that needed things the most. Number 525 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he would like to come up with some realistic proposals and/or solutions at this task force meeting. He said he thought the task force should review the suggestions made by Captain Porter, as a starting point. He repeated the recommendations; put pressure on the U.S. Department of Education to meet their financial requirements or obligation, take into consideration Governor Hickel's matching fund program concept, and develop a strategy to lobby the Department of Defense and the Department of Education for additional funds and give a framework of how much money was needed. Number 589 BONNIE CARROLL, GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEE, ANCHORAGE, mentioned the issue of who owned the schools and the land. Number 594 COLONEL VAKALIS said there were three entities that made it complicated: the Department of Education who owned the schools, the district who was responsible for managing the general upkeep of the schools, and the Bureau of Land Management that owned the land. He said once there was a single owner, many of the problems would go away. He said the mission right now was to try to get a single owner, that being the respective districts. Number 612 MS. CARROLL thanked Colonel Vakalis for what he had done and said it was very impressive. Number 615 MS. MARTIN stated that there was another party that had not yet been mentioned and that made things more complicated than what had already been mentioned. She referred to the municipalities being the landlord of the school buildings and having separate statute authority. She said that the school district could not take ownership, for example, of a school on Eielson before the assembly. Number 633 COLONEL VAKALIS asked if that was not primarily a rubber stamp, once all the requirements of the district had been met. Number 635 MS. MARTIN said that was true, to the extent of levying taxes. She said the district did not levy taxes. She further stated if the municipality was being asked to take ownership of a building that needed to be repaired and if it set the taxes on their taxpayers, it would be an important aspect. Number 644 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Sue Wilken to comment on her perspective of the situation there. Were they willing to accept a long-term financial obligation? Number 653 SUE WILKEN, GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEE, FAIRBANKS, responded that some people there would be very concerned about having ownership transferred to the borough, mainly because of the obligation for taxes. She also said there was a segment of the population that did not understand the relationship of money flow, etc. from the military. She said much would depend on how the task force stayed cohesive in its information and how the members from Fairbanks delivered that kind of information. Number 702 MS. MARTIN responded that her committee had been very supportive in taking responsibility for the future. She said they had the new schools and were responsible for the future of those schools. Number 715 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said that, for example, on Eielson there are students who are not necessarily military; she wanted to know if this was also the case in Anchorage. Number 723 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked her the question again. Number 726 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she was saying that the students at Eielson were from the vicinity in the community, and were not necessarily all military students. Number 728 COLONEL VAKALIS responded that at Fort Richardson, they were all military on-base schools and students. He said that at Fort Wainwright, about 95 percent were military and the other small percentage were not. Number 742 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER explained that there were only elementary schools on the bases in Anchorage; once the students reached junior high or senior high school, they went to community schools, for example, Bartlett and Clark. Number 756 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated that she thought this made Eielson schools a little different because they were a local school district by themselves. TAPE 93-2, SIDE A Number 005 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that Ms. Wilken had brought up a good point, that one of the outcomes of the task force was that once a plan had been put together, the members would have to sell it to their constituents for support and endorsement. He said before taking the plan to Washington, D.C., or Juneau, it would be important to have a letter of endorsement from the Fairbanks North Star Borough and Fairbanks School District and the same for Anchorage, stating that they supported the idea and were willing to participate. Number 017 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that for the most part, there was a lot of support for the military and they were integrated very well. Number 025 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if there were any other comments or considerations. Number 032 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that the legislation setting up the task force had a deadline of November 15 for recommendations. Number 035 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said she was correct and future meetings were scheduled for September 30 in Anchorage, October 12 in Fairbanks, and October 25 in Anchorage. Number 039 SENATOR LEMAN suggested leveraging some money through volunteer work. He cited the super playground built on Elmendorf as an example of organized volunteer work. He thought there would be a lot of people probably willing to volunteer their time and talent on Elmendorf, Fort Richardson, Eielson and Fort Wainwright, plus other people from the community. He thought this might be a way to expedite getting something done without having to wait several years. Number 073 Ms. CARROLL said she also had that thought in the back of her mind. She thought it could be a good example for the community and the nation. She wanted to know if this had been discussed in the past. Number 089 LT. COLONEL MELCHER responded that from his perspective, he had two combat heavy engineer companies under him and while he would like to break ground and do some volunteer work, he was prohibited from doing so. He was not allowed to compete with local contractors and take away their opportunity to compete for contracts. Number 094 MS. CARROLL asked if this was true even on base. Number 095 LT. COLONEL MELCHER replied, that yes, this was the case even on base. The use of military assets for use other than small scale local troop construction projects was prohibited. Number 097 MS. CARROLL asked if he could do it if he went out and got letters of nonopposition from all of the construction companies. Number 098 Someone replied that was correct. Number 102 LT. COLONEL MELCHER brought up the fact that they were talking about projects of large magnitude. He cited a $14 million project at Eielson Air Force Base as an example. He said they would at least have to go to every contractor in the state and possibly other places, as well. Number 104 MS. CARROLL said maybe little things, such as handicapped access could be put in to make a difference. Number 110 COLONEL VAKALIS stated if the community came up with the resources, materials and designs, it would be more of a possibility because those things all cost money. He said he thought Senator Leman had mainly been referring to volunteer labor. He stressed that materials would still be needed and any work done would have to be code inspected. The volunteer work would have to be overseen. He agreed that volunteer labor could cut down the overall cost, but it would take a lot of effort to put it together. Number 125 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said the complicating factor was that this was not a church that was being raised, it was a multimillion dollar school. But he welcomed the idea of volunteers and invited members of the task force to come up with further ideas to show community participation. Number 141 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said he agreed. He recommended the task force write a letter on behalf of each of the school districts and bases saying that the state legislature would advocate the matching leveraging of federal money available from the Department of Defense or Department of Education. Perhaps this would encourage them by showing what Alaska was willing to do by matching the money. Number 162 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER pointed out that the deadline of November 15 was chosen because the Governor would put out his budget shortly thereafter. That was the idea behind encouraging the Governor to go on a tour to try to get his support. CAPTAIN PORTER said perhaps the task force could look at the review coming back from the seven schools in Anchorage, as far as life safety code issues. He did not know if this had been done up at Eielson. He asked if any of the items identified in 1988 or 1989 had been accomplished. Number 187 MS. MARTIN responded that the study was updated in 1990, but she did not know, comparing that to maintenance that may have been done, what had been taken care of. Number 190 COLONEL VAKALIS said he thought the leveraging was a good idea because it was enticement. However, he said it really would not be military dollars, but instead Department of Defense and/or Department of Education dollars. Number 195 REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said what he had meant was to go through the Department of Defense to address the Department of Education. Number 196 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER summarized that the focus of this meetings discussion had been the successful transfer of the base schools to the local school districts. He asked if that was a fair assessment of Fairbanks. Number 202 MS. MARTIN asked if what he meant was that Fairbanks was interested in the transferring. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER responded yes. Number 204 MS. MARTIN said they had always been agreeable to the transfer under the conditions they had set out in their plan. She said, for example, they were not willing to accept Taylor and Pennel elementary in their current condition, instead they wanted a new school. They were willing to accept Anderson and Ben Eielson if they were renovated. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER reiterated that seemed to be the focus and premise. Number 212 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that she thought todays meeting was very constructive and planned to get additional ideas on paper to the task force. Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that the next meeting would be Thursday, September 30. He said the task force would tour Elmendorf and Fort Richardson schools and said the Governor would be invited to go on the tour and attend the task force meeting. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER continued that he hoped to either have Senator Stevens or a member of his staff on line for that meeting to give them a better assessment of where things presently stood in Washington, D.C. He further stated he had met with Senator Stevens the previous week and he had indicated that he held out some hope for additional funds to be identified. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked the school district members to look through the list of priorities and highlight any they felt might be able to be accomplished through volunteer labor. ADJOURNMENT REPRESENTATIVE MULDER adjourned the meeting at 3:32 p.m.