HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE April 2, 1996 8:10 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Jeannette James, Chair Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair Representative Joe Green Representative Ivan Ivan Representative Brian Porter Representative Caren Robinson Representative Ed Willis OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Gene Kubina SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Georgianna Lincoln MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR Presentation: High Frequency Activity Auroral Research Program (HAARP) WITNESS REGISTER JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager Phillips Laboratory Geophysics Ionospheric Applications 29 Randolph Road Hanscom AFB, MA 01731-3010 Telephone: (617) 377-5121 Facsimile: (617) 377-3550 DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, Angels Don't Play this HAARP P.O. Box 201393 Anchorage, AK 99520 Facsimile: (907) 696-1277 DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN C/O Dr. Nick Begich P.O. Box 201393 Anchorage, AK 99520 MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter P.O. Box 2208 Juneau, AK 99802 Telephone: (907) 364-2340 DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist SARNOFF Lab, Princeton 25 Wheat Sheaf Lane Princeton, NJ 08500 Telephone: (609) 924-9545 DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director Geophysical Institute University of Alaska, Fairbanks Fairbanks, AK 99775 Telephone: (907) 474-7282 Facsimile: (907) 474-5882 DR. WILLIAM GORDON Rice University Houston, TX 77251-1892 Telephone: (713) 527-6020 Facsimile: (713) 285-5143 EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory Mail Stop 5550 Naval Research Laboratory 4555 Overlook Avenue, S.W. Washington, D.C. 20375 Telephone: (202) 767-2761 Facsimile: (202) 767-3377 RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer Kirtland Air Force Base 3550 Aberdeen Avenue, Southeast Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776 Telephone: (505) 846-1911 Facsimile: (505) 846-0423 WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeanette James Capitol Building, Room 102 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3743 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary to Representative Gene Kubina Capitol Building, Room 406 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4859 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 96-44, SIDE A Number 0015 The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair Jeannette James at 8:10 a.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Porter, Green, Ivan, Willis, Robinson, Ogan and James. No members were absent. CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES explained the purpose of today's meeting was to present information pertaining to the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project (HAARP). She asked each presenter to briefly describe their credentials before giving their presentation. CHAIR JAMES called on the first presenter John Heckschir, HAARP Program Manager. Number 0210 JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager, Phillips Laboratory, Geophysics Ionospheric Applications, testified via teleconference. He explained he has been the manager for the past four years. He has a degree from Princeton University and a graduate degree from John Hopkins University. He thanked the committee members for the opportunity to speak about HAARP. He addressed the following three questions: What is harp? Is it safe? Is there a conspiracy involved? He referred to the first question and said HAARP is a national scientific research facility consisting of numerous radio optical and magnetic field instruments assembled together to study the composition (indisc.) and electric parameters of the upper atmosphere and ionosphere. The information gained by these studies contributed to new and better methods of radio communication and to a better understanding of the upper atmosphere. For Alaska, in particular, often experiences sudden severe communication disruptions. The primary concern to some Alaskans is the portion of HAARP known as the ionospheric research instrument. This radio transmitter transmits upward a narrow beam of high frequency that is intended to induce small changes in the ionospheric structure within a localized region to assimilate natural phenomena. This controlled beam was created by an array of antennas, each powered by one commercial transmitter. The current developmental prototype is capable of 306 kilowatts of power. The full scale instillation will eventually provide up to 3,600 kilowatts of power. MR. HECKSCHIR said the second question is HAARP safe? Is it safe for humans and animals? Is it safe to the ionosphere? He said an environmental impact statement published in July, 1993, included calculations of local electric and magnetic fields which surrounded the research instrument which showed they are smaller than established national safety standards permitted. The fields measured during the testing of the developmental prototype confirmed and validated those calculations. The HAARP has an on- going liaison with an independent review by the Federal Air Aviation (FAA) to ensure that there was no impact on aircraft. Aircraft alert radar will shut down flight operations when aircrafts are in the vicinity. The FAA has a telephone hot line established to allow them to rent access to HAARP's operation center. The HAARP's record of decision requires it to operate within established national safety standards, including those existing at the time of the record of decision signing as well as those updated later. They may be updated later during the life of the facility. Furthermore, numerous state and federal agencies provide continued oversight and ensures adherence to these standards. The HAARP is required to operate in a manner safe to humans and animals. MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question as to whether HAARP is safe to the ionosphere and said the environmental impact statement includes analysis showing that far less energy is dissipated by HAARP in the ionosphere compared to that produced by natural processes such as the auroral. The impact statement concluded that HAARP would have no adverse impact on the ionosphere. In addition, many years of operations by facilities similar to HAARP such as those located in Alaska, Russia and Puerto Rico have shown no deleterious ionospheric affects. MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question of is HAARP a conspiracy for some other purpose and said HAARP is completely unclassified. There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP. The environmental impact process documents, which include the final environmental impact statement with its many technical supporting documents, fully describe the facility to be constructed and governed its operations as well. The design and operational parameters of the facility were established in coordination and consultation with numerous ionospheric experts from many universities, government research scientists and commercial organizations. Federal and state agencies are involved in environmental monitoring and continuing independent oversight of HAARP construction and operation. Furthermore, the record of decision requires the establishment of a radio frequency interference committee of local citizens for continued independent community monitoring and input. The HAARP sponsored an open house at the facility in September, 1995. The HAARP is developing an out-reach program, in cooperation with the University of Alaska, to involve the local high school in Glennallen. He asserted HAARP is not and could not be a secret agreement to do unlawful or wrongful acts. He thanked the committee members. CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. Nick Begich. Number 0703 DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, "Angels Don't Play this HAARP," said he would talk about why we got involved in this project and what specifically the concerns were about in this project. He announced Dr. Patrick Flanagan was also on-line to answer any questions. He explained he was concerned about the direction of the project and the lack of a team of biological scientists involved in the front end of the work in terms of what these transmission could potentially environmentally and in terms of living organisms. Therefore, he took written statements associated with the project and compared them with other government records of radio frequency weapon systems surrounding the HAARP facility. He reiterated he was concerned about the direction of the research and where it will go. He referenced a document, "Technical Memorandum 195," which describes where the parameters of the project are headed and where the desired level of power are. Dr. Begich noted they are pretty substantial. He said he was also concerned with the manner in which the project had been characterized as purely research. Any weapons program development in its early stages could be characterized as research. He was concerned about long-range development on the project in terms of what it could do as an integrated weapon system at higher power levels. He said he was careful to footnote his source material. Dr. Begich said he did not think a conspiracy was involved. There is an interest in developing a research facility for their research purposes. He referred to the military as said he believes the desire is to develop the basic research necessary to bring on-line, in Alaska, a full scale weapons system. A careful review of the patten records would indicate exactly where this science goes. He said it certainly goes towards communications applications that the military freely acknowledges. Also earth penetrating tomography applications, and an over the horizon radar capability to discriminate against incoming objects. All of these are spoken clearly of in the public records. He said he was concerned about the higher power levels and the negative health affects. There is a substantial amount of material that discusses low levels of power density and energy affecting human physiology. That, is the most important aspect of the project that had not been properly disclosed. When you look at the background of this whole area of debate, internationally, in terms of ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, at the time HAARP began it was still in its infancy in terms of discussion and debate. He indicated it is many (indisc.) conclusion that low energy densities, when their (indisc.) in the right frequency range will have profound health affects. This has not been disclosed adequately in the EIS (environmental impact statement). He suggested there be more of a focus on that issue. DR. BEGICH informed the committee members that Dr. Patrick Flanagan was on-line to further address the issue. He said Dr. Flanagan has a doctorate in both medicine and physics which made him unique as an individual. He also had experience dealing with government weapon projects. Dr. Flanagan developed a guided missile detector that when he was 11 years old which was sold to the Air Research and Development Command at the Pentagon. He later developed an electronic communication system with the brain. At the age of 17, he also worked with the Hyatt Research Group which was a Pentagon think tank run by the former head of the Pentagon's office of Scientific Research. He developed speech and coding systems to be used by intelligence groups in the United States. At 19 years of age he worked for NASA. After NASA he worked for Tufts in the Department of Mechanical Engineering. While at Tufts he also worked on the (indisc.) Office of Naval Research at China Lake for a communications project. He also has a background of working at the Aberdeen (indisc.) grounds for the Department of Unconventional Weapons and Warfare. Furthermore, a major part of his research was on electromagnetic fields and the affects on living systems. He has also held FCC licenses in radio, telephone, radar and microwave fields. He gave up government sponsored research in 1968 and has worked primarily as an independent researcher since. He called on Dr. Flanagan. Number 1125 DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN said that ne of the things that they are concerned about that Mr. Heckschir didn't address and that is the fact that one of the purposes of HAARP is to develop an ELS capability for transmitting high energy ELS waves from .001 hertz to 40 kilohertz. Since the original environmental impact statement in 1991 a lot of current research is showing that ELS signals could have profound affects on the living organisms such as the curcandian rhythm - the biological clock of all living organisms. He said the (indisc.) Institute in Germany has done quite a bit of work on this showing that very energy levels, in fact energy levels that are 1/10 (indisc.) Europe's magnetic filed can have profound effects on this rhythm. Others might say that ELS fields from HAARP are not harmful, but remember our government once sprayed DDT on school children while they were eating lunch and said that this was not harmful. He said there was a very real concern of the possible affects of ELS. One of the most notable research on ELS was done by Dr. Ludafist (Sp?) at the Catholic University showed that coherent energy fields can have effects on DNA creating abnormal growth, for example, in chicken egg development and possibly in humans. He reiterated these areas were of concern to him and need to be addressed. CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Mark Farmer. Number 1256 MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter, thanked the committee members for this meeting today. He said he was a 14 year Alaskan resident and is an investigative reporter. He came to Alaska with the United States Coast Guard of which he retired from in 1987, due to service related cancer. He has worked as a reporter and producer for various television and radio stations around the state. He noted he was Governor Hickel's audio/visual director. For the last five years he had been pursuing stories basically uncovering secret weapons programs and sometimes the paranormal. He said he has been following HAARP for three years. He called it a strange story. He said one would hear many strange conspiracy tales about the machine itself. Mr. Farmer referred to the editors of his Popular Science article and said they did state that in 1993 the FAA was warning people to stay away from HAARP. That's not true. You will hear stories that the United Nations was running the program to contact aliens to come and get "our" guns; that it was being used to control our brains; and that it was being used to deflect salmon. He said all these are untrue and are stories that come from not having the basis of knowledge in a very arcane subject which is high energy radio physics. He said the military gave the people in the beginning the impression of a secret facility. The military, from a public affairs standpoint, did not come out earlier enough to address the people's concerns manifesting the basis for the various stories. He said it is a complex of instruments being used by the Geophysical Institute which will built at this facility which was going to be an over the horizon radar sight originally. It is actually a little bit south of the auroral zone where it would be more effective. So they built it out in the middle of nowhere. They didn't say much about it in the beginning and that which also contributed to the suspicion. He said he could not sell the story in the early 1990's because it was such an incredulous story to the people. People ignored it for a long time until it reached its critical mass in the last two years of which the concerns arised. He said, "We don't know. That's the problem, we don't know about this project." As it currently stands, it is only 1/10 of the size of what it would be according to the Ionospheric Research Institute (IRI). As Mr. Heckschir said, there is also going to be a complex of incoherent scatter radars, imaging devices, the super computer at UAF is going to be tied in, and a spun liquid metal mercury mirror was being put in. He called this "some cutting edge stuff," and Alaska is lucky to have it in some respects. He said he is generally in favor of the program, but the oversight "stinks." There is no supernational treaty that dealt with the upper atmosphere or the ionosphere like there is for Antarctica or outer space, for example. He said he doubts if the power levels of HAARP are going to do anything really bad, but he indicated he really doesn't know. He said there was the potential for bad effects due to the beam steering and pulsing capabilities, for example, from instigations from secret organizations. Therefore, an oversight is needed other than the military. Furthermore, he does not believe that HAARP is a secret project, but he does believe that there are secret initiatives. He said Mr. Heckschir is correct in saying that there is no classified documents pertaining to HAARP, but there are classified documents for the STAR WARS related projects using ionospheric heaters back in the 1980s of which HAARP was actually a spin-off from. Moreover, we still haven't categorized what is, "nearer space." Part of HAARP is the space weather initiative to try and find out and characterize the environment from the earth out into space, mostly for ballistic missile defense and communication purposes. He reiterated HAARP needs to be watched with active participation from those that were concerned. He explained Senator Ted Stevens from Alaska is a big supporter of HAARP. In conclusion, he said the instrument would not go away or the stories. We need to go forward and maybe petition the United Nations. Mr. Farmer said at least we should approach some independent science councils in the United States to find out if we can get a panel of people together who are not beholding to the military or academia in these research projects to oversee the power levels and the general usage that HAARP is proposed for. Number 1642 CHAIR JAMES announced a teleconference listener was interested in the educational background of the testifiers. She asked Mr. Farmer if he had a college degree? She would ask the remaining testifiers at a later time. MR. FARMER replied, "no." He has five years of college, but he does not have a degree. Number 1675 DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist, was next to address the committee via teleconference. He informed the committee members he has a Ph.D in Physical Chemistry from Harvard. He has worked for about 30 years as an industrial scientist in the field of solid state electronics. He has done some work on the structure of clouds, water evaporation and other environmental problems. He is currently a consultant in physical chemistry at Princeton, New Jersey. He said he wants to alert the legislature to an activity that is now going on in Alaska, that might become a global trap to the atmosphere. However, project internal documents indicate that plans includes the eventual use of power level of up to 10 billion watts. He called this an enormous power level, more than 200 times the total electric power used by the entire city of Juneau. He said there could be serious impacts in the atmosphere that might result from energies of this magnitude. The affects might include drastic alterations of the thermal refractive scattering and emission charge of the atmosphere over a wide range of the electromagnetic spectrum. Experiments at this power level would produce large changes in the concentration of charged particles in the ionosphere that would persist for some time and might even lead to permanent changes. He explained he is not believer in the conspiracies, but he does believe in unintended consequences of innocent and beneficial human activities can cause serious changes on a global scale. He said he would like to introduce two examples of activities that preceded the HAARP project. Twice over the past century we've unintentionally produced serious (indisc.) in the atmosphere with affects that extend worldwide. For many years nobody recognized what was happening. He cited the growing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Over the last half century, carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere as increased by about 25 percent, mostly as a bi-product of the use of fossil fuels. We know that we've have already changed the crucial carbon dioxide concentration. What we don't know is how this will affect the delicate balance of life on earth. DR. WILLIAMS explained the second unintended change is in ozone layer that shields us from harmful ultraviolet radiation. Nobody understood that we were making a (indisc.) bargain when we began to enjoy the benefits of the various useful and seemingly harmless freon refrigerants. It was only much later that we came to understand that the freon molecules were making their way to the upper atmosphere and producing permanent changes. It remains to be seen how seriously the loss of ozone will affect human life. In both citations there were unintended consequences and it's eventual impacts will be felt worldwide. He further wondered if there was a way to judge what HAARP would do to the upper atmosphere. He thought perhaps there was a way. He cited during the Cold War explosions were intended to produce artificial radiation builds to intercept intercontinental missiles by both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. The explosions resulted in global interruptions of radio communications and profound disturbances to the upper atmosphere, including greatly increased concentrations of charged particles. Following one of these tests that took place in July, 1962, James Van Allen used specially instrumentive satellite to monitor the electron population in the upper atmosphere. (Indisc.) large initial increase in electron concentration followed by a slow decrease, with significant disturbances still observable a year after the explosion. This was just one injection of (indisc.). To develop a military system, such as the one proposed by HAARP to communicate with submerged submarines, takes many tests. As an example, for test purposes over the years the nuclear armed countries have exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons, mostly near the earth's surface an underground. The nuclear armed countries had exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons violently disturbing the properties of the atmosphere. He wondered about the possible effects for Alaskans. The upper atmosphere had unique properties over polar regions, such as showers of charged particles that veer towards the poles where they enter the atmosphere and produce the northern lights. He further cited the changes in the ozone layer which have been most extreme over Antarctica and the Far North. Therefore, any future changes in the atmosphere might well be noticed first in the Polar regions. He said the Alaska may get the first warning of coming changes. Alaska's motto of "North to the Future" will take on an unintended and ironic new meaning. CHAIR JAMES called on the next testifier, Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, Geophysical Institute, said he is a scientist by profession specializing in the auroral. He said he has a Ph.D. in geophysics from the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. He said he is a scientist and not a science fiction writer. Therefore, he is not qualified to discuss science fiction. He said he understands the difference between science and science fiction. In science, we make our observations and (indisc.) and then we try to understand the (indisc.) phenomena on the basis of a fundamental (indisc.). On the other hand, science fiction is a form of (indisc.) entertainment in which (indisc.). He said the book titled, "Angels Don't Play this HAARP," was exaggerated one million times from scientific reality. He considers that exaggeration to be in the category of a fantasy. For example, the power of HAARP generated was perhaps (indisc.). On the other hand, the auroral was caused by a million times more powerful natural generator, at least 1 million megawatts, but dramatized at 100 million megawatts. Scientists had claimed that HAARP can do far more than what the auroral can do which is an exaggeration of the scientific reality. He reiterated science fiction is a mix of reality and fantasy and should remain as such. Dr. Akasofu further stated that scientists from all over the world had studied the auroral processes. The National Science Foundation was a cosponsor of HAARP. CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. William Gordon, Rice University. Number 2175 DR. WILLIAM GORDON, Rice University, said it was a pleasure to be before the House State Affairs Committee today. He said he has a Ph.D from Cornell University in electrical engineering. He is a licensed engineer and specializes in radio communications. He is a member of the National (indisc.) Academy of Engineering and the National Academy of Science. He is a fellow of the Institute of Alaska of Electronic Engineers, and is an honorary President of the International Union of Radio Science. He has worked with observatories similar to HAARP for more than 40 years. He said there must be something okay with radio waves because he has survived for almost 44 years. He said other facilities similar to HAARP exist and have been operating since the early 1970s. None of the facilities have produced any harmful effects on either people or the ecology. HAARP and similar facilities operate in the hidden properties of the upper atmosphere and applied the results for the benefit of the public. There are two panels that he had recently served on. One produced a book titles, "Health Effects of Lower Frequency Electric and Magnetic Fields." He suggested Dr. Begich and Dr. Flanagan read the book because it concludes that there are no convincing evidence to support the contention that exposures to extremely low frequency electric and magnetic fields generated a monitorable health hazard. He cited that in Michigan and Wisconsin, ELS transmitters were put in by the Navy and do communicate with submarines. The Navy has sponsored a series of studies to look at the ecology effects of the ELS. The results were not available yet. The committee had not reported yet. Other material, however, indicates that the operation of an ELS facility did not produce any ecological effects including single cell tissue, flora, and insects, for example. Furthermore, the evidence in literature for ELS on human health indicates that the effects were not deleterious. Moreover, radiation was used for the healing of bones on human beings and the biological clock - the pineal gland in the brain. He cited melatonin, available at the local drug store, helped reset the biological clock. There was also evidence that the pineal gland may also secrete melatonin under (indisc.) radiation. Furthermore, this work was going on all over the world. He cited the Arctic experienced serious problems with communications systems. Therefore, alternatives are needed and people to study the upper atmosphere to determine what possibilities there are for alternate means of communication so that we're not blacked out when there are serious (indisc.). The state should welcome the HAARP project to help solve these serious problems. CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Edward Kennedy, Naval Research Laboratory. Number 2478 EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory, testified via teleconference. TAPE 96-44, SIDE B Number 0010 MR. KENNEDY said his official capacity with respect to this project is that he the contracting officer's technical representative which means he is basically the technical interface between the contractor and the government. He said he did not have a prepared statement for today. He was asked primarily to answer any questions. He said in listening to the other speakers, it seems to him there is a real misunderstanding among some of the speakers, particularly between Dr. Flanagan and Dr. Williams with respect to the absolute level of the fields involved in some of the claims that have been made. For example, Dr. Flanagan referenced a field strength that was 1/10 of the earth's magnetic field. Mr. Kennedy said this is an enormous field compared to the kind of field that HAARP can produce. In order to discuss this issue intelligently we need to get into some technical discussions. He said he is concerned that this might be a difficult matter to talk about, but he thinks it is necessary to do. It would shed some real light about what the tremendous difference of what's being claimed and what the what HAARP facility can do. CHAIR JAMES asked, "I have one question to begin with, Mr. Heckschir one of the concerns that I've heard from the public, in the state, that is so distressing is that many of these people have read the patent by Mr. Eastland that was made available to me at the time that -- in 1992, when HAARP was trying to establish itself and was considering the Clear Air Force Base site, which was within my district. We've had conversations, you and I, about this issue and I'd like to have you explain to the people here your responses to the fact that you state, "There is no connection between Mr. Eastland's patent and what's happening at HAARP near Gakona." Number 0112 MR. HECKSCHIR replied there was no connection between Mr. Eastland's patent and the HAARP facility. There is a massive difference in the amount of power that Mr. Eastland's patents would require compared with HAARP. The comparison is ridiculous. The HAARP, at most, has the power from four diesel locomotives and that was the total prime power that HAARP will ever have in its final design. The Eastland patents require thousands of times more basic power. He agreed with the concerns of Dr. Williams regarding massive power injections into the ionosphere. The Eastland patents requires thousands of times more power than HAARP has. Such a massive scale could never get through the regulatory agencies. Any change in the environmental impact statement that has been approved would require another public hearing. The whole process would have to be opened up again if we wanted to build Mr. Eastland's device. He said, "It's not what were doing." It is unfortunate that the comparison is being made because there is real no comparison between the two. The suggestion that HAARP is any way even close to what Mr. Eastland had in mind is preposterous. Furthermore, such a devise of Mr. Eastland's would be rejected immediately with the regulatory oversight in place today. The amount of federal and state oversight is monumental. He said he believes they do a thorough and great job. Number 0226 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said, "My concern is that if we are involved in this sort of research, are we at the edge of Pandora's box where we would have regulatory oversight from the United States standpoint, but that as we've known from time memorial - whatever we develop other countries will soon have. And would there be the same sort of guarantee that some sort of oversight would be available there, because while this may start off in its most simplistic form and very very safe if it's able to be controlled as we've been led to believe, could that then be used and not necessarily in such a magnitude that we would be talking about the entire ionosphere, but controlled to pinpointed areas where you could actually increase the amount of energy and possible detrimental effects over selected areas?" CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Kennedy to respond to Representative Green's concerns. Number 0272 MR. KENNEDY said that was a difficult question to answer. We in the United States have no control over what other countries do. However, in the United States in order to build the kind of facility that Mr. Heckschir was talking about, it would approximately double the national debt to build something like that just in the cost of equipment and manpower. As Mr. Heckschir said it would be rejected by the regulatory agencies solely on the basis of cost. That same concept applies to other countries as well. Number 0311 CHAIR JAMES wondered if Mr. Kennedy was responding to the Eastland's device or to the HAARP facility. Number 0320 MR. KENNEDY replied he was talking about trying to develop something of the magnitude of Eastland's devise. He said it is strictly science fiction to think about building something that large considering the cost. CHAIR JAMES commented Representative Green was more concerned about the existing HAARP facility. She asked if there is any information from that which could have any implications from other nations picking up and doing something that was more extensive than this and causing us any damage. Number 0344 MR. HECKSCHIR replied these facilities already exist in other countries. He cited one in Northern Norway and several in Russia. These have operated for many years. He said there is absolutely no deleterious effects indicated from any of the operations that have been done for the last 30 to 40 years. He reiterated he doesn't believe it is a problem. Number 0379 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Heckschir if the facilities in Norway and Russia are comparable to HAARP or are they more powerful. Number 0387 MR. HECKSCHIR replied the facility in Norway was comparable to HAARP, the antenna array is very much like what HAARP will have. The power capability somewhat less, two to three times less than what HAARP will eventually have. The HAARP facility in Alaskahas the same power capability as the one in Northern Norway, it just did not have the antenna array to construct a narrow beam. Number 0418 DR. BEGICH commented that in terms of the power levels and energy levels that are transmitted on the ground, the significant factor here is the amount of energy delivered into the ionosphere which is the focusing capability of the HAARP project, which distinguishes it from other projects operating around the world. Furthermore, the primary invention of Bernard Eastland wasn't the size, but the focusing ability - the ability to focus radio frequency energy into that narrow beam to disturb the ionosphere for the unique affects they are trying gain from this project. He said in terms of other projects of a similar nature, there was one that was recorded April 2, Istanbul, which is a publication of Soviet Union. And it was on a FBI strategic defense initiate proposal from the Soviets - former Soviet Union to the United States to develop phaser ray antenna systems. When you read the article it is exactly what HAARP is for a number of weapons affects. And what is happening here and what has been happening since the inception of this project is to paint HAARP as Eastland in the sense of size would certainly be wrong, but in sense of application what it does uniquely in focusing energy is absolutely correct. And what the gentleman from Rice University was saying regarding ELS and what's also interesting about all the people presenting on their side where the biological scientists? Where are those people with backgrounds in electrophysiology? Where are those people that have that requisite background to make the kinds of statements that this can operate safety? And why aren't they in front of this committee today. Our experts, you know, have looked at these effects. (Indisc.) put Patrick back on-line, I think he'd like to respond to a couple of things that have been said. In terms of science fiction, we didn't write science fiction. We wrote the facts as the facts unveiled itself and what we've seen missing in all this from the military is a clear description of what those facts might be. Moreover, this is not the first time that the military has proposed safe technologies for Alaska that today, we look back on it and say `Aren't safe at all.' And we think that this particular system needs the kind of oversight that involves biologists that are independent of military establishment, that are independent of the academic community that draws money from the military establishment, that are truly independent. Number 0590 DR. BEGICH continued, "In terms of the question by Representative Green regarding where the global implications, certainly if oversight is going to take place in Alaska, then oversight should extend beyond the boundaries of the United States and we've been in touch with members of the European Parliament and others who are reviewing this project, what we put together on it and matching off several scientists in Europe against our scientists here to get to a little cleaner understanding before they begin moving forward because they're as equally concerned as we are that disturbing the ionosphere is not the tool of the United States. It's a global issue. It's an issue that all of us are concerned about. Well the research intention of the University of Alaska I'm sure are founded on absolute clear idea of what mechanics want to do with the ionosphere, but this isn't a place for just mechanics and engineers. Biological scientists must be involved with a requisite backgrounds so this can be assessed in terms of a true safety level. Comparing this to other facilities without including the issue of focusing energy and creating secondary energies from the ionosphere is ludicrous, you can't do that. And I'd like to give Patrick a chance to expand on some of this as well." CHAIR JAMES questioned Dr. Begich's field of degree. DR. BEGICH said he has a doctorate in complimentary medicines from the (Indisc.) International University for Complimentary Medicine. He said he has been primarily doing research work. He noted Dr. Flanagan has been one of their key people. Number 608 DR. FLANAGAN explained there are many pros and cons regarding ELS effects on the body. He said there are some viewing specs that promote healing from certain energies being applied to the bone, but that doesn't apply to what the committee is talking about. There are literally thousands of papers written by reputable scientists on negative effects in ELS fields on the living system. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a report in 1991 linking electromagnetic fields to leukemia and brain cancer in children. There is a paper that was just published in 1996 by the Catholic University titled, "Super Imposing Spacely Coherent Electromagnetic Noise Inhibits Field Induced Abnormalities in Developing Chick Embryos." Basically, what this paper says is that very low energy ELS fields developed abnormalities in developing chick embryos and that there was a test to show the nature of this field and how it could be counter acted. Fortunately, it can be counter acted by applying a white noise field. There is a tremendous amount of background. ELS fields are not as harmless as is being implied. He said he believes it needs to be looked into. Dr. Flanagan explained there is a possibility of something called "major amplification of a HAARP energy." For example, if HAARP is applying 3,600 kilowatts to the ionosphere, there is a possibility of something called major amplification of that energy by charged particles in the ionosphere in which you'll get more energy out. That is energy is being powered by the energy from the sun. These charged particles in the ionosphere can be caused to maze and develop actually more energy than HAARP is putting in. He said these are things that need to be addressed. Mr. Flanagan said he doesn't think this electromagnetic question of ELS safety has been answered at all. Number 700 CHAIR JAMES said she likes to tell people that her scientific knowledge is based on the eighth grade general science. She noted she doesn't have any degrees. In talking about this project we're talking about these frequencies - radio waves and then focusing them. She it reminds her of when she used to take a magnifying glass and use the sun to burn holes in something when the sun didn't feel that hot in the first place. Chair James said she has a question regarding the comparison to the facility in Norway and the facility we have in Alaska. It was indicated that the difference was in the ability to focus that power into a narrow focus. She asked Mr. Heckschir to respond to that. She said her question is, "If, as an example, that focus could be more defined and more driven, could we then have much more affect than what you're having even with the existing diesel powers that you have?" MR. HECKSCHIR said he thinks Mr. Kennedy probably has a good handle on that subject. He asked Mr. Kennedy if he could address that issue. DR. GORDON indicated he would like to comment on that subject. Number 830 DR. HECKSCHIR said he would prefer that Mr. Kennedy address the issue of focusing the antennas. MR. KENNEDY said with respect to the ability to focus on antenna, he has worked in the area of antennas his whole career. He noted he got his masters degree on a thesis of having to do with antennas. He said Mr. Begich has claimed that the HAARP ray can focus to a point which has made numerous (indisc.). That is completely false. There is no such capability with HAARP. In order to produce anything near the kind of focusing capability that Dr. Begich claims would require a facility something in the order of the size that Mr. Eastland had originally envisioned in his past - something in the order of (indisc.). HAARP obeys the same continental rules as all other large antenna systems. The energy disburses as you get farther away from the antenna. It does not come to a point. Comparing it with a magnifying glass is really misleading and it is the utmost irresponsibility to make that kind of claim. Number 893 DR. GORDON referred to the focusing question and said it isn't particularly relevant here because of what Mr. Kennedy has just told the committee. He said the committee should know that this system in Russia and elsewhere have phaser rays and have the same difficulty. They're able to sweep a beam by phasing, but they're not able to bring the focus to anything (indisc.). He said his second point has do with the people who are involved in the health studies and the ecological studies. Those people include all the branches of life sciences, they include medicine, reproduction and cell biologists, (indisc.), engineers and physicists. Those studies were a very balanced (indisc.) done by a broad spectrum of people and the publications that have come out of them are reliable. He continued to discuss publications. [Note: Most of this testimony was indiscernible.] Mr. Gordon said when you find an article that says, "Chick eggs are affected by some level of radiation," you can find two other articles which say, "I tried to do the same thing and couldn't." He indicated the experiments cannot be replicated, they can't be duplicated. People have tried. The literature is full of flames. He said he has found that (indisc.) on chick eggs and some reporter is likely to grab that and make a headline, but the reporter ignores the fact that five other people have tried the same thing and got different results. Number 978 DR. AKASOFU was next to comment. [Note: A lot of this testimony was indiscernible.] He said, "Thank you. (Indisc.) that Dr. Begich (indisc.) of what he dreams is the magnitude of a media intense exaggeration. Not only say that the focusing is an issue. So let me tell you I think the (indisc.) focusing, he got it some place, is very misleading and I think you know exactly what this means. I think you're mislead and that's why you made the statement of magnifying glasses. No, that's not way it goes, in fact the (indisc.) recorder systems in the seismic terms, the amount of energy going into the ionosphere is so little that you cannot even see any light coming from the ionosphere. One of the most sensitive instruments in the world can't see it. On the other hand, look at the auroral, you can see it easily by naked eyes. So this is a difference. For instance, focusing means that the ionosphere will (indisc.). So I think the (indisc.) focusing is being used in a misleading way and I agree with Dr. William Gordon on that. And also that I think we are (indisc.), these (indisc.) by the National Science Foundation. It's not just a (indisc.) project. Many of our (indisc.) reported by the National Science Foundation. When I was listening to the people, Dr. Williams said Princeton, but it is not Princeton University. And what I gather from Dr. Begich and Dr. Flanagan, Dr. Williams, you're scientists but (indisc.) specializing (indisc.) like Dr. Gordon. You are as ignorant as anybody else. But using those (indisc.) scientific terms like `megawatts' or `the focusing,' you're misleading the citizens. Thank you very much." Number 1142 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA indicated he has a couple of lower level degrees, but he is normally a sixth grade teacher. He said his thought process is more geared to a 12-year old. He said he isn't sure what the goal is of what they are trying to get. Representative Kubina said he represents the people in this area who have a great concern about their health and what the effects are. He said it seems to him that there needs to be a process or a mechanism set up similar to what we have in the RCAC program with the oil industry in transporting oil through the Sound so that the people in the community have someone that they can go to and answer questions and get questions answered for them about what is going on. Dr. Begich talked about there being no biologists involved. Dr. Heckschir talked about the review committees that they're going through. He asked if there is a way to set up a mechanism where there are people involved that do not have a financial interest in it, but yet have the training and ability to understand what is actually happening, so that people can go to them to talk about this. They can have meetings so they don't feel like this is someone that's just trying to get their grant project through. He asked if both sides could comment. Number 1263 DR. HECKSCHIR said he agrees with much of what Representative Kubina has suggested. He said much of that mechanism is already in place. There is the Radio Frequency Interference Resolution Committee which includes local citizens, representatives of many agencies and representatives from the ham community. This committee meets to resolve any radio frequency interference issues that might arise. Dr. Heckschir referred to their outreach program and said he would extend an offer to have Representative Kubina and others to work with them to improve communication with the community. He said he would welcome input from the committee members to see how they can better relate to the community. Perhaps the public affairs officer at Kirtland would like to comment. Number 1346 RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer, Kirtland Air Force Base, testified via teleconference. He said they got on board a little bit late to get a much word out as they want to get out regarding HAARP. He explained it is their desire is to try and restore credit to anyone that has questions about HAARP. Mr. Garcia said Dr. Heckschir had an open house. He said they have responded every new media representative that has contacted them. Whenever HAARP is on-line and is about to operate, they try to put out news releases before the fact so that people would know when it is operating. They plan to have another open house in the future. He said they are very receptive to opinion and ideas that the public has as to how they might get the word out to more people. Number 1400 DR. HECKSCHIR said he would further elaborate on the regulatory oversight. There are many independent reviews taking place at all levels - federal, state and private. At the federal level, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration is being (indisc.). Many agencies sit on that board including the FAA, the Department of Health and Welfare, Agriculture and the FCC. In Alaska, independent reviews are conducted by the FAA in the fields of aviation control and safety. The Corps of Engineers are involved in impacts on water quality and flatland preservation. The National Park Service sits on their committee worrying about interference to animal trapping and (indisc.) communications. He said they do bird monitoring under the auspices of Fish and Wildlife. The U.S. Coast Guard sits on the panel in regards to (indisc.) communication and rescue and navigation aids. The Bureau of Land Management is also involved in how the land is used. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is also involved. The EPA is looking for continuing adherence to standards they have said they will provide. Mr. Heckschir explained all these agencies provide continuing independent oversight of construction and operations. At the state level, the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation monitors water quality, natural resources and mining plans. He noted they have a lot gravel in mind for the antenna fields. Mr. Heckschir noted they also monitor radio frequency interference (RFI) and radio frequency radiation. The state (indisc.) preservation office that monitors any archaeological resources that they come across during the construction of the facility. The Alaska Department of Fish and Game looks after the RFI as well as impacts to wildlife. They all independently provide regulatory oversight. Mr. HECKSCHIR said as far as private and commercial concerns, they're represented on the committee by the ARRL, the Ham Organization. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association looks after aircraft safety. The Aleyska pipeline are worried about radio controls of the pipeline and their communications. Alascom worries about telephone interference. There is also a private individual who represents the local communities of Gakona and Glennallen. All these organization provides active independent review of all aspects of the HAARP operation. CHAIR JAMES indicated the members of the committee they are excused as they have to go on the House floor. She thanked everyone for participating and noted the meeting would continue for another half an hour and would be monitored by her staff. Number 1616 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he is concerned because a wide variety of people in his district who have an education and background that are really concerned with this. Given the government's past track record with experimenting on different civilian populations with various, for example radiation in the past, and various other experiments. He said he thinks people are operating in a vacuum and he believes fear is basically the unknown. When people don't about something, they're afraid of it. There is obviously and number of intelligent and educated people that have a difference of opinion on the subject. He said he thinks that people that don't have association with the Defense Department or some kind of economic interests need to analyze this. CHAIR JAMES announced Walt Wilcox will continue with the rest of the hearing. Number 1750 WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeanette James, asked the people who had testified to state the spelling of their names and their addresses. SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN explained she had an opportunity to go Glennallen in March. She attended a community meeting that was being held on the HAARP project. She indicated there was large turnout of people. Senator Lincoln said she was left with a sense of people not understanding what this facility is. She said she also visited the HAARP site the previous summer and felt that it wasn't as scary as what people had discussed. She said, "But I'm not a scientist. I don't know what the instruments are going to do and especially if there is any potential harm to the environment or individuals. So I really appreciate the number of folks that have really come out in and around the area expressing their concerns and wanting to know especially, I think, that we have as the state of Alaska, in looking out for the welfare of our people here in Alaska that we have some kind of oversight. And I still haven't heard what we, as the state of Alaska, have as an oversight. I've heard that we're participating in a number of committees, but I think that we need to look at, as a state, of having an independent oversight overview committee. And Representative Kubina and I are certainly going to work toward that end. My question is that in reading one of the documents that was handed out here today, inside one of the packets it said that the criteria that was used for the site selection was `It must be away from a densely settled area.' And if the HAARP project is environmentally sound that if it has a no harm to individuals or animals, then why was it necessary that the site be away from populated areas? And that would be my question to one of the individuals on-line." Number 2477 MR. HECKSCHIR explained, "The reason for the site being away from populated areas is that the effects that HAARP can produce...." TAPE 96-45, SIDE A Number 0001 MR. HECKSCHIR continued, "....to a lot of activity - human activity which requires generators, lights, all the activities associated with towns and cities (indisc.) fields, all these things they provide a background information or a background level of noise which is high, and you want to make sure that get into an area where those background noise levels are low so that you have a chance of operating your sensitive instruments in a most sensitive manner. Light pollution is a prime example. One of the main studies will be the effect of the aurora and you can see the aurora in a dark location away from cities. That's the reason why it needs to be away from populated areas." Number 0118 MR. BEGICH referred to the question asked by Representative Kubina regarding monitoring. He said the fact again remains the lack of biological scientists on these teams and the kinds of scientists that have the requisite background. He said the committee heard earlier from Dr. Gordon and Dr. Flanagan about the chick/embryo study. One of those studies was actually commissioned by the United States Office of Naval Research which (indisc.) this project. There were six independent studies, five of which confirmed that ELS did have an effect on chick embryos and one that did not. He said the characterization of a lot those studies is not properly placed in front of the committee. Moreover, the issue of the openness of this project which does relate to oversight again, Mr. Heckschir has said that it is a totally open project as has everyone else. Yet there is a document, "PLGP Technical Memorandum 195," which has not been released to the public. It is 613 pages long and describes the power levels that are in dispute on this system. Mr. Begich said, "In terms of what Dr. Akasofu was saying suggesting that I backed off on my position on power - that's incorrect. I believe that the current state of power developed at the site is as they characterized it. That is the direction of the project that's laid out in technical memorandum 195, which shows a power level desire many many times more than what is currently there and actually a desired energy level not required for this particular transmitter at this particular time. The desired level by the members present at that meeting that put this document together asking that maybe they'd go up to a billion watts of (indisc.) radio power. That's in their document. When John Heckschir was asked about this document on Canadian Broadcasting Television, and we have a segment that we can make available to you, he denied that it exists and yet he's the program manager, he's on the distribution list at the end of that memorandum and he's also listed in attendance (indisc.) put the memorandum together. And if it's such an open project, then why is he denying knowledge of this memorandum now and why are they disputing where they want to go with the power level? What they're really talking about is where we are today which, you know, we would agree it's at a low level, but where it's going as all military projects go, it's progressive and it's (indisc.) next stage of development. Oversight needs to be independent, RDEC could do it if they mixed in some of the experts that are out there in radio frequency and electromagnetic energies effect on human physiology. And that should happen. I think this state can do that. And if it is such an open project, there should be an absolute enthusiasm from the other side of this issue to encourage that, to put these issues aside because I think that is where we're at. We want to see these issues brought up in the proper forum, raised with the proper kind of technicians debating these issues so that in the end we can all feel comfortable because there are some interesting military applications here that might be (indisc.) to have in the state of Alaska, particularly given Senator Steven's recent statements that Alaska and Hawaii are excluded from the defense shield. And now we have a research project in Alaska, it might us a defense shield. It might violate some international agreements at this time, but you know we're gonna get a shield here. Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't, but it has to be reviewed from a biological standpoint - not just a mechanical standpoint and that's what we really need to see the state get involved in." Number 0417 DR. FLANAGAN said the power levels discussed by Dr. Heckschir aren't consistent with the statement he made on the television show (indisc.) when he was interviewed when he said that the HAARP system can actually punch holes through the ionosphere and that these holes would heal shortly after a HAARP system was turned off. He said he would like a comment from Dr. Heckschir. DR. HECKSCHIR referred to technical memorandum 195 and said, "The segment that everybody has seen on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation program was taken out context. It was cut and edited to make me look bad, I believe. The interviewer never gave me the title of the technical memorandum and I don't recognize documents by their technical memorandum number. The title of it is `Presentations from the HAARP Workshop on Ionosphere and Heating Diagnostics.' This was a workshop that was proposed for deciding on basic parameters on what the HAARP diagnostics are going to be, not the machine - not the (indisc.) we see ionosphere and research instrument. The memorandum was assembled for the convenience only of the attendees. They consisted of unedited view graphs, some of which were made by a green pencil on a spot as the speaker was lecturing, as well as other materials that each participant used to promote their thoughts and ideas. None of this material was submitted for peer review, which is an essential part of actually a publishing something. Therefore, the statement in the (indisc.) of this technical memorandum 195, which is required by (indisc.) regulations, (indisc.) the the technical memorandum from attacking the report which is the document reviewed for publication. Any of the information in that document is not an indication of necessarily or of what is intended. It is simply a collection of U graphs that shows what the diagnostics are supposed to be. The information on individual U graphs and what is finally developed in the HAARP design are not tolerated. The (indisc.) in there are obviously not desired levels. So to imply that technical memorandum 195 is what the HAARP program is going toward is just not right." Number 0640 DR. AKASOFU said, "I just want to say that the (indisc.) cuts as a (indisc.) expression some people. It's the only way to enlarge the HAARP sight hundreds or thousand times. So you (indisc.). I told you that the HAARP sight, although they expect that eventually they might go to 1,000 megawatts, megawatts, but they might need only about a few megawatts. The operation generator power, (indisc.) it's 300 megawatts. So if we have to worry about a (indisc.) stuff, I (indisc.) doing 100,000 times more damage to environment on a whole today. So I hope that you understand that. Also let me say - I'm not going to say anymore - that the Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, is that Alaska one of (indisc.) corners (indisc.) institute of the state of Alaska. I (indisc.) to the state of Alaska. Let me say that. Thank you. Number 0737 MR. FARMER commented, "Dr. Akasofu and other refer to some of the things mentioned in both Nick Begich's book and my stories in Jane Defense Weekly, which is the most prestigious defense magazine in the world, and Popular Science, which can hold his own. The Star Wars program that through money around quite liberally in the `80s, I don't think necessarily adhere to science fiction, Dr. The things that I got out of Heckschir's documents, which are patents which the government did not think was science fiction do the the fact that they gave him a lot of money and kept several of them secrete until recently, were right out of those patented documents. The other applications of HAARP that are possible, and I always say `possible,' including earth penetrating tomography and the creation of lenses and mirrors - those are all in your documents. That is not science fiction in that respect. Some of the other ones, mind control, weather control, I grant you that they're pretty far fetched. And people should realize that the scale of what Eastland was talking about was a machine 160 square miles. It was tapping natural gas directly out of the gas fields running huge generators. Dr. Akasofu and others will say `It's only megawatts.' Well effective radiated power - the actual amount of power that goes into the ionosphere is in gigawatts. You take the amount of power out of the generators. There is a formula that brings you a frequency and your antenna size that gives you effective radiated power which turns into billions of watts. So I don't think we've made any sort of real progress on bringing the sides together, but certainly there is a countervailing citadels of expertise here that needs to be -- well we need to talk more for one thing. People need to involve themselves more and I think as more people educate themselves and figure out what is trying to go on here that they will probably come over to the government side in some respects. It's bringing jobs. It's making sure that Alaska is one of the preeminent scientific facilities in the world and, generally, it's probably a pretty good thing. I think this meeting was a good start. And Mr. Heckschir - one question - you just got done doing a ELF campaign with HAARP this month. How did that go?" MR. HECKSCHIR responded, "I'm not aware of any campaign that we had this month." MR. FARMER indicated it was in March. MR. HECKSCHIR said they haven't done anything since November. MR. FARMER said, "Okay, so the documents that were sent into the ELF campaign for March - nothing happened?" MR. HECKSCHIR indicated that was correct. He said, "I would like to have Mr. Kennedy, if he will, explain the difference between effective radiated power and total radiated power because there seems to be a big (indisc.) in how people believe as being put into the ionosphere and what we can actually do." Number 0923 MR. KENNEDY said one of the problems has been a misinterpretation of what (indisc.) radiated power means. When you cram 3.6 megawatts into an antenna system, what that antenna system can do is to lose about 3.6 megawatts and nothing more. It's not a amplifying devise. It's strictly (indisc.) allowing that 3.6 megawatts to be radiated into space. To do anything other than that would be in violation of the principle and conservation of energy which is one of the fundamental principles of physics. So (indisc.) HAARP (indisc.) concurs is 3.6 megawatts. The most (indisc.) that can get into the ionosphere is also 3.6 megawatts. Number 0978 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary to Representative Gene Kubina, made a statement on behalf of Representative Kubina. He said, "Thank you Mr. Wilcox. Representative Kubina, as you know, had to head off for the floor this morning and regrets that (indisc.). He did want to me to mention on his behalf that he didn't feel that this closes the discussion on HAARP, but rather opens up the subject for further discussion, as has been intimated by a number of individuals today. Further review seems to be a factor here and particularly, as again has been stressed by a number of parties today, biological oversight. Dr. Akasofu mentioned by monitoring, we'd be able to see if this system was expanded in the future and that's the rate of oversight that needs to be clarified. Again, Representative Kubina wants to thank those who testified today, those who took the time to listen in and hopes that we can continue to pursue this subject and make certain that Alaskans feel comfortable living with HAARP in their backyard. Mr. Wilcox, thank you." MR. WILCOX explained the idea of this meeting was to bring together the various sides. He said the minutes will be published and made available to the legislative information offices around the state. He thanked everybody who testified. ADJOURNMENT MR. WILCOX adjourned the House State affairs Committee meeting at 10:00 a.m.