ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                 HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                               
                          May 2, 2003                                                                                           
                           6:00 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 209                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to municipal property tax adjustments for                                                                      
property affected by a disaster."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 209(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 234                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to brewpubs, and continuing the existence of                                                                   
the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board; and providing for an                                                                      
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 234(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 25(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to  the acquisition  of  teachers' housing  by                                                               
regional educational  attendance areas  and to  teachers' housing                                                               
loan  programs in  the Alaska  Housing  Finance Corporation;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 25(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 209                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:MUNI.TAX: PROPERTY AFFECTED BY DISASTER                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)CHENAULT                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/24/03     0617       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/24/03     0617       (H)        CRA, FIN                                                                                     
04/07/03     0831       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): WOLF                                                                           
04/08/03                (H)        CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/08/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 209(CRA) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/08/03                (H)        MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                  
04/09/03     0867       (H)        CRA RPT CS(CRA) 7DP                                                                          
04/09/03     0867       (H)        DP: KOTT, ANDERSON, SAMUELS,                                                                 
                                   WOLF,                                                                                        
04/09/03     0867       (H)        KOOKESH, CISSNA, MORGAN                                                                      
04/09/03     0868       (H)        FN1: ZERO(CED)                                                                               
04/30/03     1216       (H)        FIN REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                          
04/30/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/30/03                (H)        <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                      
                                   Waived out of cmt <Mtg.                                                                      
                                   Postponed to after Maj.                                                                      
                                   Caucus>                                                                                      
04/30/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/02/03                (H)        RLS AT 6:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 234                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:BREWPUBS; ABC BOARD                                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)MCGUIRE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
04/02/03     0739       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/02/03     0739       (H)        L&C, FIN                                                                                     
04/09/03                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/09/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/09/03                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/11/03                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/11/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 234(L&C) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/11/03                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/14/03     0963       (H)        L&C RPT CS(L&C) NT 4DP 3NR                                                                   
04/14/03     0963       (H)        DP: CRAWFORD, DAHLSTROM,                                                                     
                                   ROKEBERG,                                                                                    
04/14/03     0963       (H)        ANDERSON; NR: LYNN, GATTO,                                                                   
                                   GUTTENBERG                                                                                   
04/14/03     0963       (H)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
04/23/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/23/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 234(FIN) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/23/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
04/28/03     1152       (H)        FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 3DP 3NR                                                                   
04/28/03     1152       (H)        DP: MEYER, HAWKER, HARRIS;                                                                   
                                   NR: STOLTZE,                                                                                 
04/28/03     1152       (H)        CROFT, CHENAULT                                                                              
04/28/03     1153       (H)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
04/28/03     1153       (H)        FN2: INDETERMINATE(DPS)                                                                      
05/02/03                (H)        RLS AT 6:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 25                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:TEACHERS' HOUSING/AHFC LOANS                                                                                        
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) WILKEN                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
01/21/03     0021       (S)        PREFILE RELEASED 1/17/03                                                                     
01/21/03     0021       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
01/21/03     0021       (S)        HES, FIN                                                                                     
02/12/03                (S)        HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
02/12/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
02/12/03                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
02/24/03                (S)        HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
02/24/03                (S)        Moved Out of Committee                                                                       
02/24/03                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
02/26/03     0272       (S)        HES RPT CS 3DP 1NR 1AM SAME                                                                  
                                   TITLE                                                                                        
02/26/03     0272       (S)        DP: DYSON, DAVIS, WILKEN;                                                                    
02/26/03     0272       (S)        NR: GUESS; AM: GREEN                                                                         
02/26/03     0272       (S)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
02/26/03                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
03/06/03                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
03/06/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/06/03                (S)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
03/11/03                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
03/11/03                (S)        Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                      
03/12/03                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
03/12/03                (S)        Moved CSSB 25(FIN) Out of                                                                    
                                   Committee                                                                                    
03/12/03                (S)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
03/13/03     0489       (S)        FIN RPT CS 5DP 1DNP 1NR NEW                                                                  
                                   TITLE                                                                                        
03/13/03     0489       (S)        DP: WILKEN, TAYLOR, HOFFMAN,                                                                 
                                   OLSON,                                                                                       
03/13/03     0489       (S)        STEVENS B; DNP: GREEN; NR:                                                                   
                                   BUNDE                                                                                        
03/13/03     0489       (S)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
03/17/03     0522       (S)        COSPONSOR(S): STEVENS G,                                                                     
                                   DYSON, SEEKINS                                                                               
03/31/03     0641       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 3/31/2003                                                                  
03/31/03     0641       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
03/31/03     0642       (S)        FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                  
03/31/03     0642       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                    
                                   UNAN CONSENT                                                                                 
03/31/03     0642       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB                                                                     
                                   25(FIN)                                                                                      
03/31/03     0642       (S)        COSPONSOR(S): LINCOLN                                                                        
03/31/03     0642       (S)        PASSED Y16 N1 E3                                                                             
03/31/03     0643       (S)        EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS                                                                    
                                   PASSAGE                                                                                      
03/31/03     0648       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
03/31/03     0648       (S)        VERSION: CSSB 25(FIN)                                                                        
04/02/03     0729       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/02/03     0729       (H)        HES, FIN                                                                                     
04/02/03     0751       (H)        CROSS SPONSOR(S): LYNN                                                                       
04/11/03     0947       (H)        CROSS SPONSOR(S): ROKEBERG                                                                   
04/15/03                (H)        HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                   
04/15/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/15/03                (H)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
04/22/03                (H)        HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                   
04/22/03                (H)        Moved HCSSB 25(HES) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee Meeting postponed                                                                  
                                   to after floor session                                                                       
04/22/03                (H)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
04/23/03     1065       (H)        HES RPT HCS(HES) NT 2DP 4NR                                                                  
04/23/03     1065       (H)        TITLE CHANGE: HCR 17                                                                         
04/23/03     1065       (H)        DP: SEATON, WILSON; NR:                                                                      
                                   CISSNA,                                                                                      
04/23/03     1065       (H)        COGHILL, WOLF, GATTO                                                                         
04/23/03     1066       (H)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
04/29/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/29/03                (H)        Moved HCS CSSB 25(FIN) Out of                                                                
                                   Committee                                                                                    
                                   MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
04/30/03     1199       (H)        FIN RPT HCS(HES) NT 9DP 2NR                                                                  
04/30/03     1199       (H)        TITLE CHANGE: HCR 17                                                                         
04/30/03     1199       (H)        DP: MEYER, HAWKER, JOULE,                                                                    
                                   CROFT,                                                                                       
04/30/03     1199       (H)        CHENAULT, WHITAKER, FOSTER,                                                                  
                                   HARRIS,                                                                                      
04/30/03     1199       (H)        WILLIAMS; NR: STOLTZE, MOSES                                                                 
04/30/03     1200       (H)        FN1: ZERO(REV)                                                                               
04/30/03     1218       (H)        CROSS SPONSOR(S): MEYER                                                                      
05/02/03                (H)        RLS AT 6:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LEONA OBERTS, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 209 on behalf of the sponsor,                                                                 
Representative Chenault.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JUANITA HENSLEY, Special Assistant                                                                                              
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Public Safety                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the discussion of HB 234, answered                                                                  
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GARY WILKEN                                                                                                             
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke as the sponsor of SB 25.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PEGGY WILSON                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke [as the sponsor of the portion of SB                                                                 
25 dealing with nurses].                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-3, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR NORMAN  ROKEBERG called the House  Rules Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to  order at 6:00  p.m.  Representatives  Rokeberg, Kott,                                                               
Coghill,  Morgan, Berkowitz,  and  Kerttula were  present at  the                                                               
call to order.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 209-MUNI.TAX:  PROPERTY AFFECTED BY DISASTER                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the first order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO.  209, "An Act  relating to  municipal property                                                               
tax adjustments for property affected by a disaster."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[Due to  technical difficulties,  the first  six minutes  of tape                                                               
are blank.   Therefore, the following was  reconstructed from the                                                               
committee secretary's log notes.]                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
There was a motion to  adopt CSHB 209, Version 23-LS0420\I, Cook,                                                               
4/30/03.   There  being no  objection, Version  I was  before the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  related  her  understanding  that  this                                                               
legislation would apply to more than just a natural disaster.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
LEONA  OBERTS,  Staff  to Representative  Mike  Chenault,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  presented HB  209 on  behalf of  the sponsor.                                                               
In  response to  Representative  Kerttula,  Ms. Oberts  indicated                                                               
that this legislation  would apply to a  man-made [disaster] such                                                               
as  pipes   flooding  a  basement.     In  further   response  to                                                               
Representative   Kerttula,  Ms.   Oberts   confirmed  that   this                                                               
legislation would only refer to a reduction in municipal taxes.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
[The recording begins at this point.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0498                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  moved  to  report [CSHB  209,  Version  23-                                                               
LS0420\I,  Cook,  4/30/03]  out   of  committee  with  individual                                                               
recommendations and  the accompanying fiscal notes.   There being                                                               
no objection, [CSHB  209(RLS)] was reported from  the House Rules                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 234-BREWPUBS; ABC BOARD                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  234,  "An Act  relating  to  brewpubs,  and                                                               
continuing  the  existence  of  the  Alcoholic  Beverage  Control                                                               
Board; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0613                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  moved to  adopt  CSHB  234, Version  23-                                                               
LS0862\X, Ford,  4/30/03, as the  working document.   There being                                                               
no objection, Version X was before the committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ   objected  and  inquired  as   to  the                                                               
difference between Version X and [CSHB 234(FIN)].                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  pointed out  that  Section  2 of  CSHB  234(FIN)                                                               
regarding peace officer powers  eliminated the Alcoholic Beverage                                                               
Control Board's (ABC) authorization  to investigate violations of                                                               
laws  against prostitution  and  gambling  on [premises  licensed                                                               
under] Title 4.   There seems to be some  question with regard to                                                               
what  the Department  of Public  Safety (DPS)  and the  ABC Board                                                               
want.  Although this matter was  discussed at length in the House                                                               
Labor  and Commerce  Standing Committee,  the language  was taken                                                               
out in  the House Finance  Standing Committee.  He  explained his                                                               
belief  that  the law  enforcement  agencies  of the  state  have                                                               
better things  to do than  enforce laws relating  to prostitution                                                               
and  gambling  on  licensed  premises.    The  ABC  investigators                                                               
should, in  the course  of their  activity, be  in a  position to                                                               
enforce laws  relating to prostitution  and gambling  in licensed                                                               
premises  because   there  is  a  direct   relation  between  the                                                               
aforementioned activities and the  activities of a licensee under                                                               
Title 4.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG,  in   response  to   Representative  Berkowitz,                                                               
clarified  that  [under CSHB  234(FIN)]  the  activities the  ABC                                                               
investigators can investigate  are limited and thus  he wanted to                                                               
return to the  current statute under which  ABC investigators are                                                               
able to [investigate/enforce prostitution and gambling].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0792                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ withdrew his objection.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  specified  that   the  remainder  of  Version  X                                                               
essentially remains the same.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA inquired as  to the department's thoughts                                                               
on the matter.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0856                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUANITA HENSLEY,  Special Assistant, Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of Public  Safety, informed  the  committee that  DPS                                                               
requested  that  the provision  to  take  away [the  ABC  Board's                                                               
authority with  regard to] prostitution and  gambling be included                                                               
in  the  legislation.    This  was  requested  so  that  the  ABC                                                               
investigators  would refocus  on alcohol  investigation.   If the                                                               
ABC investigators  see prostitution  or gambling  going on  in an                                                               
establishment,  then they  should contact  local law  enforcement                                                               
agencies.   Ms.  Hensley noted  that DPS  would continue  to work                                                               
with the ABC investigators, even without the provision.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  related  his  understanding  that  DPS                                                               
wants the provision to be included in the legislation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY clarified  that DPS had requested  that peace officer                                                               
powers  of investigating  gambling  and  prostitution be  removed                                                               
from the  ABC investigators.   However, Version X allows  the ABC                                                               
investigators  to   continue  to  investigate   prostitution  and                                                               
gambling.  At this point, it doesn't matter to DPS, she said.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if  there are concerns with regard                                                               
to peace officer safety or is this a resource issue.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0969                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY pointed out that  through one of the recent executive                                                               
orders  the  ABC Board  is  being  placed in  DPS.    One of  the                                                               
recommendations of the Joint Committee  on Legislative Budget and                                                               
Audit's  sunset  audit  of  the   ABC  Board  was  that  the  ABC                                                               
investigator's  work  time  should   be  refocused  on  enforcing                                                               
alcohol  laws  while  enforcement of  gambling  and  prostitution                                                               
should be  left to the regular  police powers of the  state.  The                                                               
DPS agreed  with the aforementioned  and if ABC  investigators do                                                               
see prostitution  and gambling  in an  establishment, DPS  or any                                                               
other law enforcement  agency in the area should  assist in those                                                               
investigations.  Version X gives  the ABC investigators the power                                                               
to investigate prostitution and  gambling, and DPS would continue                                                               
to  work  with  them  and   further  investigate.    Ms.  Hensley                                                               
mentioned  that there  will be  times in  which prostitution  and                                                               
gambling  are a  vice issue  that can  be handled  in conjunction                                                               
with the ABC investigators.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ inquired as to  the percentage of an ABC                                                               
investigator's   time   spent  investigating   prostitution   and                                                               
gambling as opposed to alcoholic (indisc.) infractions.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY said she couldn't answer that.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said that  he didn't recall prostitution                                                               
or  gambling ever  coming through  the ABC  Board.   He expressed                                                               
curiosity as  to why Chair  Rokeberg wants Version X  because the                                                               
audit, the department, and the governor want CSHB 234(FIN).                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that  the audit specifies that the ABC                                                               
Board [wants to  maintain its powers with  regard to prostitution                                                               
and gambling].                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1126                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA highlighted  that the  ABC Board  didn't                                                               
obtain these  powers until 1999.   She also highlighted  that the                                                               
audit says  that the  issue has been  that the  ABC investigators                                                               
"are  ex-police  officers  who  would  like  to  carry  guns  and                                                               
investigate other  crimes, in  fact they  seem to  be intensively                                                               
preoccupied  with the  topic".   Furthermore, the  problem hasn't                                                               
really been  alcohol control.   She noted that there  are already                                                               
officers  that investigate  prostitution and  gambling in  Alaska                                                               
and  thus  she  characterized  [DPS's  authority  to  investigate                                                               
prostitution and gambling] as a duplication of services.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1173                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  noted  his  disagreement   with  the  audit  and                                                               
recommended maintaining  the status  quo while reviewing  how the                                                               
transition [of the ABC Board to DPS] goes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ mentioned  the  duplication of  service                                                               
issue.   He  related  his experience  that  when law  enforcement                                                               
officers make  decisions about how  they want  their organization                                                               
organized  it's best  to defer  to their  wishes.   He noted  his                                                               
willingness to  return the peace  officer power provision  in the                                                               
legislation and  indicated that perhaps  the discussion  would be                                                               
held on the House floor.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  inquired  as to  the  department's  position  on                                                               
Version X.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1273                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY reiterated that DPS  made the recommendation, jointly                                                               
with the governor's office, for  this provision.  However, DPS is                                                               
willing  to  work  with  the ABC  investigators  to  fulfill  the                                                               
provisions  under Title  4 whether  gambling and  prostitution is                                                               
included or  not.   With regard  to the notion  of there  being a                                                               
duplication  of service,  Ms. Hensley  pointed out  that the  ABC                                                               
investigators  would be  in a  position to  notify the  local law                                                               
enforcement  agency  and work  jointly  with  it with  regard  to                                                               
gambling and prostitution.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG requested  that Ms.  Hensley provide  information                                                               
with regard to the amount of  time that DPS allocates to gambling                                                               
and  prostitution investigation  in the  context of  their entire                                                               
scope of work.   Chair Rokeberg suggested that the  time would be                                                               
small.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon  determining no one else  wished to testify,                                                               
closed public testimony.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1403                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  moved to report CSHB  234(FIN), Version                                                               
W,  out  of committee  with  individual  recommendations and  the                                                               
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call vote  was  taken.   Representatives  Kott,  Morgan,                                                               
Berkowitz,  and  Kerttula  voted   in  favor  of  reporting  CSHB                                                               
234(FIN) from  committee.   Representatives Coghill  and Rokeberg                                                               
voted against it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT, upon  the announcement that the  vote was 4-                                                               
2,  said  that  he  wanted  to change  his  vote  to  be  against                                                               
reporting CSHB 234(FIN) from committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Due  to  technical  difficulties  the  following  motion  wasn't                                                               
recorded on tape.]                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1504                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  moved to  report CSHB 234,  Version 23-                                                               
LS0862\X,  Ford,  4/30/03,  out   of  committee  with  individual                                                               
recommendations and  the accompanying fiscal notes.   There being                                                               
no objection,  CSHB 234(RLS)  was reported  from the  House Rules                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB  25-TEACHERS' HOUSING/AHFC LOANS                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the final order  of business would                                                               
be  CS FOR  SENATE  BILL NO.  25(FIN), "An  Act  relating to  the                                                               
acquisition   of  teachers'   housing  by   regional  educational                                                               
attendance areas  and to teachers'  housing loan programs  in the                                                               
Alaska  Housing   Finance  Corporation;  and  providing   for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ moved  to adopt HCS CSSB  25, Version W,                                                               
as the working document.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected for discussion purposes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1542                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  pointed out that  Version W  on page 2,  line 10,                                                               
has  deleted  "administrator"  and   inserted  "principal".    He                                                               
explained that  the prior version included  a provision requiring                                                               
that nurses working  at least 80 hours a month  would qualify for                                                               
this  loan  program.   However,  [Version  W] requires  that  the                                                               
[nurses] would have to be full-time employees.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG related  that the idea behind  this legislation is                                                               
to  provide  incentives  for  hiring  new  teachers,  counselors,                                                               
principals,   and  nurses.     The   rationale  behind   changing                                                               
"administrator" to  "principal" is that many  administrators have                                                               
very high  salaries and  thus don't  need the  additional benefit                                                               
provided  by this  legislation.   Furthermore,  the change  helps                                                               
restrict  the scope  of eligible  people.   He acknowledged  that                                                               
there was  an issue  regarding whether  a nurse  could work  on a                                                               
part-time basis  and qualify  for this  program.   However, Chair                                                               
Rokeberg reminded  the committee that the  legislation intends to                                                               
recruit and retain  teachers and nurses, and  therefore he didn't                                                               
believe the legislation  would be best served  by including part-                                                               
time employment.   By  allowing AHFC  to develop  the eligibility                                                               
regulations,  the nurses  association  could provide  information                                                               
with   regard  to   peculiar  work   hours  [that   need  to   be                                                               
accommodated].                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1704                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    BERKOWITZ    asked     if    "principal"    and                                                               
"administrator" are defined terms.   He inquired as to what would                                                               
happen if  someone was an  acting principal or a  vice principal.                                                               
He  then  turned to  the  language  on  page  2, line  14,  which                                                               
specifies that only one loan per  borrower can be made, and asked                                                               
if that means  once in a lifetime.  He  pointed out that teachers                                                               
and  principals in  rural Alaska  may move  from one  district to                                                               
another.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG related his belief  that the intention is [for the                                                               
program] to be  similar to the VA loan program  in which there is                                                               
a one-time use.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  interjected that when the  Alaska Housing                                                               
and  Finance  Corporation (AHFC)  was  before  the House  Health,                                                               
Education and  Social Services Standing Committee  the indication                                                               
was that this offer could only be used once.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG returned  to the  change from  "administrator" to                                                               
"principal"  and explained  that  the intent  was  to narrow  the                                                               
field  of  eligible people.    He  wasn't  aware of  a  statutory                                                               
definition for either.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA  pointed   out  that   vice  principals                                                               
wouldn't be included and she noted her discomfort with that.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG suggested  that  the term  "principals" could  be                                                               
used or "vice principals" could be specified.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  recalled that  schools have  a peculiar                                                               
situation  in  which people  providing  support  for a  principal                                                               
might  not be  eligible  for  one of  these  loans, although  the                                                               
principal would.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG reminded  everyone that the original  intent is to                                                               
help the  recruitment of  teachers and thus  the scope  should be                                                               
narrowed  because those  receiving  high  levels of  compensation                                                               
don't need help.  Chair Rokeberg  said that he wouldn't object to                                                               
including "assistant principals".                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL pointed out  that the legislation requires                                                               
that  the  individual be  certificated  and  thus the  individual                                                               
would have to be a teacher.   He also pointed out that there will                                                               
be schools  in which the  administrators hold class.   Therefore,                                                               
having  the  "certificated"  language  would seem  to  serve  the                                                               
purpose.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA remarked  that  administrators in  rural                                                               
Alaska often function as a teacher and administrator.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  returned to  Representative  Coghill's                                                               
point  that this  legislation seems  to  focus on  those who  are                                                               
certificated and work in the  school.  Therefore, a list wouldn't                                                               
be necessary, he said.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG noted  that there is a definition of  teacher.  He                                                               
expressed concern with people who  earn $100,000 a year getting a                                                               
deal.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  reiterated that a list  isn't necessary                                                               
and the  problem could be  addressed by inserting a  period after                                                               
"certificated".                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1959                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GARY  WILKEN, Alaska State  Legislature, speaking  as the                                                               
sponsor of  SB 25,  explained that  the purpose of  SB 25  was to                                                               
create  something that  Alaska could  offer to  attract teachers.                                                               
The ability to utilize this benefit  is limited to someone in the                                                               
school.   Senator Wilken expressed his  preference for specifying                                                               
principal and  vice principal.   However,  he agreed  that merely                                                               
referring  to  certificated  individuals  would  serve  the  same                                                               
purpose.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  said that  he didn't  object to  [including] vice                                                               
principals.   However, he reiterated  his concern with  regard to                                                               
using  the   language  "administrator"  because  of   their  high                                                               
salaries.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN  remarked that  limiting  this  benefit to  those                                                               
inside the school would seem  to eliminate those he considered to                                                               
be  an  administrator.   However,  he  noted his  agreement  with                                                               
deleting the "administrator" language.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  agreed  with Representative  Kerttula's  earlier                                                               
testimony that  some school  employees could  wear more  than one                                                               
hat.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  asked  whether those  wearing  multiple                                                               
hats would clearly  qualify for this when one of  those hats is a                                                               
teacher in some capacity.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG said he believes so.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT interjected  that  those  certificated as  a                                                               
teacher would qualify.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  said  that  he wouldn't  object  to  adding  the                                                               
"assistant principal" language.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN suggested  that "principal"  could be  defined in                                                               
regulation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2097                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  asked if all teachers  are classified as                                                               
full-time.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  said that  there is a  statutory definition  of a                                                               
full-time teacher.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA related  that she wanted to  be sure that                                                               
[the definition]  included regular teachers.   She said  that she                                                               
could double-check before the legislation goes to the floor.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG remarked  that the  intent is  for the  statutory                                                               
definition of a full-time teacher to be controlling.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN thanked  Representative  Wilson  for making  this                                                               
legislation better.  He further  thanked Chair Rokeberg from whom                                                               
he took this legislation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG   informed  the   committee  that   AS  14.25.220                                                               
specifies:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     (19) "full-time  teacher" means  a teacher  occupying a                                                                    
     position requiring teaching on  a regular basis for the                                                                    
     normal  work  period per  day  or  week at  a  teaching                                                                    
     assignment,  excluding  teaching  as  an  assistant  or                                                                    
     graduate  assistant   or  teaching  on   a  substitute,                                                                    
     temporary, or per diem basis;                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2235                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT moved  that the  committee adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1  to page  2, line 10,  after "or",  insert "assistant                                                               
principal".   There  being no  objection, Conceptual  Amendment 1                                                               
was adopted.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA  expressed   concern  with   regard  to                                                               
increasing  the requirement  from  80 hours  to  full-time.   She                                                               
related  her understanding  that often  in rural  Alaska flexible                                                               
hours are allowed in order to [recruit and retain] nurses.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PEGGY  WILSON, Alaska State  Legislature, speaking                                                               
[as the  sponsor of the  portion of the legislation  dealing with                                                               
nurses], noted  that in several  areas two people  work part-time                                                               
to  fill  a full-time  slot.    In  response to  Chair  Rokeberg,                                                               
Representative Wilson  explained that such [job  sharing] is done                                                               
because  a parent  wants to  do so  while in  other instances  an                                                               
individual might be retired [and only wants to work part-time].                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that  the intent of the legislation is                                                               
to provide  a bonus in  order to  entice people into  the nursing                                                               
profession.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA remarked that  nursing is a stressful job                                                               
and many nurses are women, many  of whom have families.  Offering                                                               
flexible  hours has  helped  get nurses  into  rural Alaska,  she                                                               
said.   She  expressed  concern with  regard  to increasing  [the                                                               
requirement] to full-time.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON said  that  she didn't  want  to lose  the                                                               
inclusion of the  nurses in this legislation  [over the full-time                                                               
requirement].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2360                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ related  his  understanding that  there                                                               
isn't  a requirement  that the  nurse work  full-time but  rather                                                               
that  there are  regulations  determining [whether  the nurse  is                                                               
working full-time].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG  clarified   that   his  intent   was  for   the                                                               
determination  to  be  developed  such  that  it's  flexible  and                                                               
recognizes real life  situations.  Chair Rokeberg  noted that the                                                               
House Health,  Education and  Social Services  Standing Committee                                                               
changed the  title and thus  there is already a  title resolution                                                               
for the legislation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ moved to report  HCS CSSB 25, Version W,                                                               
as amended, out of committee  with individual recommendations and                                                               
the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-3, SIDE B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, HCS  CSSB 25(RLS) was reported from the                                                               
House Rules Standing Committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Rules Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 6:47 p.m.