HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE April 16, 1998 1:27 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair Representative Ramona Barnes Representative Fred Dyson Representative Joe Green Representative William K. (Bill) Williams Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Reggie Joule MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR CONFIRMATION HEARINGS: Board of Game Eric Williamson - Anchorage - CONFIRMATION HEARD AND HELD (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION No previous action to record WITNESS REGISTER ERIC WILLIAMSON, Appointee to the Board of Game 12720 Lupine Road Anchorage, Alaska 99516 Telephone: (907) 345-7678 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of Game. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-48, SIDE A Number 001 CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:27 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Masek, Barnes, Dyson, Williams and Joule. Representatives Green and Nicholia arrived at 1:20 p.m. and 1:32 p.m., respectively. CONFIRMATION HEARINGS CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the committee would take up the appointee to the Board of Game, Eric Williamson. ERIC WILLIAMSON, appointee to the Board of Game, stated he is a registered guide, a lifelong hunter and has served as an elected member of the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee for the past five years. He brings the perspective of a commercial user to the board which has been absent in recent years. He recognizes a monetary and cultural value to not only wildlife itself, but to intact wildlife habitats. The struggle over wildlife policy and regulations from various user groups over the years has muddled the core issue - conservation of wildlife populations. The board system provides excellent opportunities for participation by local fish and game advisory committees, organizations, and the concerned public. The board's strength is its accessibility for public, agency, and scientific input. Having served three terms on the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee, it has allowed him to understand the issues important to various interests groups, particularly in Southcentral. As a member of the Board of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association, he has learned to listen to public and agency information, and to make appropriate decisions as a group. He was appointed in March to the Board of Game and sat on the board at the spring meeting in Fairbanks. In conclusion, he stated he is very willing and committed to the board process. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the arrival of Representative Green. Number 095 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of guide is he. MR. WILLIAMSON replied he has hunting, fishing and wildlife watching programs - 50 percent is hunting, 45 percent is fishing, and 5 percent is wildlife watching. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of hunting. MR. WILLIAMSON replied grizzly bear, moose, caribou, black bear and wolf. Number 099 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson about the Holitna River drainage "bone-in-bone-out" issue addressed at the board meeting. MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was not part of the deliberations. The Holitna River is part of his guide area, therefore, there was a conflict of interest. When the issue was first brought up last spring, he was on the committee that the board set up to look at it. There were several aspects of the issue. He cited controlling air access as an example. As a guide, it would affect him even though he is not a pilot because he usually charters a float plane. The local residents were having a problem with the drop-off, unguided float trips. He was in between the factions on the committee, but the committee was able to come up with some compromises which included the "bone-in" regulation. Number 143 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson when the committee he served on was making recommendations to the board did he ever read the law. MR. WILLIAMSON replied no not at that point. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether he has read the law since then. MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson to state what the law says. MR. WILLIAMSON replied it says that the meat has to be salvaged. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated that is not all the law says. She asked Mr. Williamson to tell the committee members what the rest of the law says. MR. WILLIAMSON replied the law says all the meat on the front and hind quarters has to be salvaged - neck, ribs and back straps. Number 173 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said, "You're asking us to confirm you to the Board of Game and you have participated by your own testimony in establishing a regulation--recommending a regulation that went before the board which you are now seeking to become part of. Could you tell us what the law says about the bone?" MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is not sure whether he can get the names of the bones right. The law says the meat must be salvaged above the knees, ribs, neck and back straps. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the law says the meat must be salvaged, but the law on its face does not include the bone. She asked Mr. Williamson how he could recommend that the board violate the law in good conscience. MR. WILLIAMSON replied the board receives its authority from the legislature and recognizes that it has to follow the laws. It also takes advise from the Department of Law, and according to advise from the department, it was determined to be within the law. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated it is not within the law. It does not matter what any attorney general says when a law is clear on its face. The legislature has an opinion from its attorneys that says just the opposite. "You as board members swearing to uphold the laws of the state of Alaska, how can you sit there and tell me that you got a--taken an opinion from the Department of Law based upon the law that's clear on its face that says, 'this does not include bone, sinew, etc.'" MR. WILLIAMSON replied the legal matters seem to be quite confusing. The law appears to be clear. The regulation was passed a year ago and the Department of Law has given its reading on it. It is a difficult situation, but the board uses the department for advise. Number 251 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated she could never support a confirmation of any member of a board who would choose to follow what the Department of Law says versus what the law says on its face. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the Legislative Council Joint Committee took up the issue. Her understanding of the March meeting is that the board said it was okay to not carry the bones out in the winter, but not in the summer. It makes no sense whatsoever. She will never vote for another person to any board who cannot sit in front of a committee and say, "I will follow the law, not what an attorney tells me, but what the law says and its clear on its face." CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that Representative Nicholia has been at the meeting for sometime now. Number 274 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson in what capacity was he involved with the issue. MR. WILLIAMSON replied he did not have a strong feeling about the "bone-and-the-meat" issue. Originally, the proposal said there wouldn't be any air access into Unit 19B - the part he was concerned about. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson whether he was a member of the advisory committee. MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "No." He was there as an individual and guide. Number 302 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he is involved with the actual taking of game. MR. WILLIAMSON replied as a guide he sells a hunt. There is no guarantee of success. The trophy is an important part of what hunters want. It serves as a memory and concrete memento of the hunter's experience in Alaska. There is a whole range of services and skills that he has to be able to provide in order for a satisfying hunt. Number 323 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was wondering whether Mr. Williamson guides to take pictures, for example, or to actually harvest a trophy or meat. MR. WILLIAMSON replied the bottom-line is to get an animal. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained he asked because Mr. Williamson is a board member of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association. There is concern among the members of the committee that it might bias him towards one end of the spectrum. He asked Mr. Williamson whether he is still a member of the association. MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is a member of the association, but he has resigned from the board. His role on the board was to represent hunting, transporting, and sport fishing interests, as well as to use his knowledge of the board process and fish and game policies. The Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association is primarily for nonconsumptive, small-scale, sustainable tourism. He feels there are a lot of concerns that overlap guided hunts and "lolly gags" in the wilderness - wildlife habitat and populations. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he doesn't mean to demean that as an activity. He just wanted to be sure that his association with the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association would not bias his opinions. Number 364 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON explained to Representative Green that Mr. Williamson already noted the percentage of his activities as a guide. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was concerned that part of the hunt was pictorial. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson when drafting wolf management policy would it be as a predator control, preservation, or something in between. There have been efforts made to reduce predator impacts in certain areas that have started to diminish the game. He wondered how Mr. Williamson would handle a problem like that. Number 380 MR. WILLIAMSON replied he believes in wildlife management which is why he is interested in a position on the board. The Board of Game has a mandate for intensive management in instances where it has been identified as an area of high importance for human consumptive use. Number 391 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he would support that as opposed to maybe trying.... MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." He would support whatever measures are taken for intensive management. Number 393 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES gave Mr. Williamson the section of the statute that defines the term "edible meat" and asked him to read it aloud. MR. WILLIAMSON read the following: "AS 16.30.030. Definitions. 'edible meat' means, in the case of big game animals, the meat of the ribs, neck, brisket, front quarters as far as the distal joint of the radius-ulna (knee), hindquarters as far as the distal joint of the tibia-fibula (hock), and that portion of the animal between the front and hindquarters; in the case of water fowl, the meat of the breast; however, 'edible meat' of big game or wild fowl does not include (A) meat of the head; (B) meat that has been damaged and made inedible by the method of taking; (C) bones, sinew, and incidental meat reasonably lost as a result of boning or a close trimming of the bones; (D) viscera;" Number 414 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether the law is pretty clear. MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." Number 416 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES read the following from a legal opinion: "Under As 16.30.020, the legislature has expressly authorized the Game Board to modify the wanton waste statute. In so doing, however, the permitted modifications are in the way of making exceptions to the requirements of the statute by animal or by species, a relaxation of the terms that define the criminal act, and are not by way of authorizing the Board to extend the criminal statute to make its provisions more stringent. "Because the regulation in question has arguably not been construed by the Game Board in 'pari matria' with the existing statute defining conduct constituting a criminal offense, the regulation may be viewed as one that fails to comply with 'standards prescribed by other provisions of the law," the test of the second requirement of AS 44.62.020 and, on that basis, may be determined to be invalid." REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what he thinks about the regulation adopted by the Board of Game after reading the law and an opinion from Legislative Legal Services. MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "I guess the Board of Game probably needs to take another look at that" he said. Number 444 CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN stated he always admires and thanks anyone willing to serve the state. It is a very difficult job, mostly thankless, and one has to put up with the confirmation process. He noted that none of it is personal. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there has been a lot of discussion in the legislature about the authority delated to the Board of Game. The legislature is very concerned about restricting traditional access into different areas. Personally, he believes there are enough acres set aside for those who want a pure wilderness experience without any motorized vehicles. He asked Mr. Williamson what his position is on restricting access in Unit 13 - the subsistence area of urban Alaskans. Number 469 MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was at the board meeting last fall and there was quite a turnout for it. There was also quite a turnout for the Anchorage Advisory Committee. The testimony was pretty much in favor of outdoor recreation vehicle use (ORV) in Unit 13. There was some testimony from hunters who were disturbed by it because they want to walk in. He has read the board's jurisdiction and sees that there has to a biological problem or a chronic conflict. It appears that neither of the conditions exist. Nevertheless, setting up the committee was proactive because it appears that its use is increasing. Number 498 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Williamson whether he guides for wolves. MR. WILLIAMSON replied if he comes across a wolf he will urge his client to shoot it because he considers it a fine trophy. Number 503 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated he was interested because he has not heard of anybody guiding for wolves specifically. He understands it is an incidental take. He wrote the law and tag fee for out-of-state residents. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there are a lot of people from rural Alaska who can't put food on their tables because of the wolf predation problem. The Governor refuses to do anything about it other than to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on studies from outside firms. He asked Mr. Williamson, if it got to the point of managing wildlife and kowtowing to a tourism boycott threat, would he implement intensive management in spite of the threats. Number 516 MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." As a member of the Board of Game, its clear he would use the data and testimony from the local residents. The position that the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association took was for its members. It was a very tough position to take; there were many members opposed to it who were hunters or who felt it was a subsistence issue. It was an attempt to defuse the tourism boycott which was real. Number 542 REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK referred to the ballot initiative to prohibit the use of snares, and asked Mr. Williamson his position on the initiative. MR. WILLIAMSON replied, principally, he is opposed to initiatives for wildlife management. Trapping is an honorable lifestyle and very important to bush residents. Snaring is valuable for predator management. Therefore, he is very much opposed to the language of the ballot initiative. Number 559 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON recessed the meeting to the call of either co- chairman at 1:58 p.m.