HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE March 24, 1998 1:15 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair Representative Fred Dyson Representative Joe Green MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman Representative Ramona Barnes Representative William K. (Bill) Williams Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Reggie Joule COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 414 "An Act relating to management of game and to the duties of the commissioner of fish and game." - HEARD AND HELD HOUSE BILL NO. 284 "An Act relating to infestations and diseases of timber." - HEARD AND HELD (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 414 SHORT TITLE: MANAGEMENT OF GAME SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) KELLY Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 2/16/98 2331 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 2/16/98 2331 (H) RESOURCES 3/10/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 3/10/98 (H) MINUTE(RES) 3/19/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 3/19/98 (H) MINUTE(RES) 3/24/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HB 284 SHORT TITLE: TIMBER THREATENED BY PESTS OR DISEASE SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HODGINS Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 5/10/97 1807 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 5/10/97 1807 (H) RESOURCES 3/12/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 3/12/98 (H) MINUTE(RES) 3/24/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 WITNESS REGISTER DICK BISHOP, Representative Alaska Outdoor Council P.O. Box 73902 Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Telephone: (907) 455-4262 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 414 and HB 284. GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison Office of the Commissioner Department of Fish and Game P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526 Telephone: (907) 465-6143 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 414. BRUCE CAMPBELL, Legislative Assistant to Representative Pete Kelly Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 411 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-2327 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony for the sponsor on HB 414. TOM MANNINEN, Legislative Administrative Assistant to Representative Mark Hodgins Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 110 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3779 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony for the sponsor on HB 284. BRUCE BAKER P.O. Box 211384 Auke Bay, 99821 Telephone: (Not provided) POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 284. GEORGE MATZ 14345 Cody Circle Anchorage, Alaska 99516 Telephone: (907) 345-3139 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284. DAN STEIN 1712 Gilmore Trail Fairbanks, Alaska 99712 Telephone: (907) 458-9386 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284. DOUGLAS YATES P.O. Box 221 Ester, Alaska 99725 Telephone: (907) 479-8300 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284. DAVE WALLINGFORD Department of Natural Resources 3601 "C" Street, Suite 1034 Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5937 Telephone: (907) 269-8450 POSITION STATEMENT: Attending the meeting for Jeff Jahnke, state forester. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-37, SIDE A Number 0001 [DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES THE TAPE IS BARELY AUDIBLE] CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:15 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Ogan, Masek, Dyson, and Green. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated he will take public testimony only. There isn't a quorum to take any action yet. HB 414 - MANAGEMENT OF GAME CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House Bill Number 414, "An Act relating to management of game and to the duties of the commissioner of fish and game." Number 0086 DICK BISHOP, Representative, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), testified in Juneau. The delegates of the AOC recently voted to support HB 414. The AOC has worked with the sponsor on the language. It fills an important gap in game management policy by directing the Board of Game to establish regulations, promoting high levels of harvest, and specifying cooperation between the board and the Department of Fish and Game. The AOC also supports establishing personal and family use for consumptive as the highest and best use of game. The priority is already implied in statute, for example state law requires saving meat from game. It is also central to the values of all hunters - sport, subsistence, general or food. The findings accurately reflect the ongoing challenge of providing for these legitimate human uses. In general, nonconsumptive uses benefit from a (indis.) game population also. There is no inherent incompatibility between consumptive and nonconsumptive uses of game. The amendment that has been offered addresses the concern of opening areas that are presently closed arbitrarily by providing a rational basis. The AOC urges the passage of the bill. Number 0300 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game, stated when it comes to deciding among the different uses of fish and game the board system has worked well by allowing people to argue their points. The department thinks that is the best way to allocate the use of these resources. He has provided a list from Title 5 of the areas closed by Board of Game regulations for hunting and trapping. Some of the closures were established specifically to protect or enhance wildlife viewing opportunities, such as the McNeil River State Sanctuary. It is doubtful whether they would remain closed. McNeil River is closed by statute, but there are many other areas, including the game refuge around it, that are closed by regulation. The department is not quite in agreement with the bill yet. Number 0460 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the definition of the term "game" in the dictionary is "wild animals, birds, fish hunted for food or sport." He suggested that the Department of Fish and Game look at the definition. Number 0485 MR. BRUCE further stated he recognizes that the sponsor has attempted to remove the conflict with a subsistence priority use. Number 0540 BRUCE CAMPBELL, Legislative Assistant, to Representative Pete Kelly, Alaska State Legislature, stated there is an amendment based on testimony from the last hearing. It reads as follows: TO: HB 414 Page 3, line 7, following "game.": Insert "(a)" Page 3, line 8, following "family": Delete all material Insert "consumption. The other" Page 3, following line 11: Insert a new subsection to read: "(b) Notwithstanding (a) of this section, the Board of Game may maintain a regulatory closure of an area to hunting or trapping that is in effect on the effective date of this subsection if the repeal of the closure would (1) create a significant risk to public safety; (2) pose a risk to continued sustained yield management of a game population; (3) not significantly enhance opportunities for personal and family use of game for human consumption; or (4) interfere with the rebuilding of a big game prey population to a level of abundance that would support a high level for human harvest." MR. CAMPBELL stated the original language, human consumption, narrowed the priority producing a conflict with the current subsistence priority and other anticipated priorities. Mr. Saxby from the Department of Law suggested taking the reference to people and food from the equation and to go back to personal and family consumptive use. Subsistence means more than just food in many areas. It may mean simply participating in a lifestyle, but it is a consumptive use. The intent is not to narrow that part of the debate, but rather to add a preference for consumptive use over nonconsumptive use. MR. CAMPBELL stated adding a new subsection to the bill would allow the Board of Game to maintain regulatory closures of an area to hunting or trapping based on four reasons - (1) create a significant risk to public safety; (2) pose a risk to continued sustained yield management of a game population; (3) not significantly enhance opportunities for personal and family use of game for human consumption; or (4) interfere with the rebuilding of a big game prey population to a level of abundance that would support a high level for human harvest. Number 0885 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Campbell how would the amendment affect control use areas. Number 0890 MR. CAMPBELL replied the amendment would allow control use areas to remain. Number 0951 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated for the record that three members are not present in Juneau today - Representatives Williams, Barnes and Hudson. They are representing the state in other activities. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the bill will be held over. HB 284 - TIMBER THREATENED BY PESTS OR DISEASE CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the next order of business was House Bill Number 284, "An Act relating to infestations and diseases of timber." CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there is still not a quorum so there will be public testimony only. Number 1045 TOM MANNINEN, Legislative Administrative Assistant, to Representative Mark Hodgins, Alaska State Legislature, stated he is here to introduce an amendment. It reads as follows: TO: HB 284 Page 2, line 20, following "chapter": Insert ", other than a requirement of or a regulation adopted under AS 41.17.115 - 41.17.119." MR. MANNINEN explained the amendment would prohibit the commissioner of natural resources from waiving the requirements of 41.17.115 - 41.17.119 that deal with riparian management, riparian standards for private lands, riparian standards for state land, and minimum riparian standards for other public land. MR. MANNINEN referred to a handout illustrating the infestation on the Kenai Peninsula and Southcentral. MR. MANNINEN further stated Representative Hodgins is very concerned about the fire risks, public safety, and maximum use of the resource. Representative Hodgins respectfully asks that the committee take action on the bill when there is a quorum. Number 1212 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the amendment would not allow the commissioner to waive stream setbacks. Number 1275 BRUCE BAKER testified in Juneau. He was employed by the United States Forest Service for 12 years as a forester and forest entomologist (insect specialist). He has worked on forest insect populations throughout Alaska, including spruce beetles on the Kenai Peninsula. He also served for 11 years as a deputy director in the Department of Fish and Game. He and his wife own a small woodlot. House Bill 284 is bad public policy. It's narrow-minded, caters to special interests, lacks either an economic or biological basis, and bars the public from the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) decision process. MR. BAKER explained the bill uses native forest insects and diseases as excuses to fast-track timber sales. He cannot think of a single native Alaskan forest insect or disease, the build up and spread of which is likely to be affected over a significant area by salvage logging dead standing trees. Forest insect populations and diseases built up when forest conditions become favorable for them to do so. This bill confuses symptoms with underlying cause. It confuses the salvage utilization of wood fiber with basic forest biology. MR. BAKER explained the bill makes it a requirement that DNR enter a salvage agreement with a private owner or public manager. Native forest insects and diseases are natural disturbance events, and even when some of them reach levels alarming to humans, they play important roles in natural forest habitat renewal. Wildlife managers, commercial tourism businesses, non-commercial recreationists, and private forest owners may define forest health and the need for salvage very differently than DNR and the timber industry do. MR. BAKER explained the bill requires that if infested or diseased trees on state or municipal land are thought to pose "an environmental catastrophe," timber is to be "salvaged" as rapidly as possible. A catastrophe is in the eye of the beholder, and by ignoring effects on wildlife, the bill ignores the state's constitutional mandate that all renewable resources be managed on the sustained yield principle. The bill ignores the question of whether the alleged benefits of timber salvage and logging roads would justify their adverse impacts on wildlife or recreational opportunities. For example, it has been demonstrated that increased "roading" can be damaging to brown bears because of increased poaching and the killing of bears in the name of the protection of life and property. MR. BAKER stated the bill amends existing law by allowing DNR to put up salvage sales of less than 200 acres without preparing a plan of operation that is subject to agency and public review under the Forest Practices Act. MR. BAKER stated the bill implies that salvage of dead trees can be expected to "eliminate" an insect or disease condition. There is absolutely no evidence that a native forest insect or disease can be "eliminated" from Alaska, and it is misleading to the public to suggest otherwise. MR. BAKER stated the bill fails to acknowledge alternative means of preventing or reducing fuel accumulation that results from years of fire suppression in fire-prone forests. An obvious option would be the use of prescribed burning in which site access is by helicopter rather than roads. MR. BAKER stated the economics of HB 284 are seriously flawed because it requires state salvage regardless of whether they turn a profit, and it fails to acknowledge the economic values of resources that may be negatively impacted by the effects of logging and increased roading. MR. BAKER stated by forcing big government down the throats of private forest owners, the bill is an invasion of private property rights. A private forest owner's only recourse will be to show in court how salvage of their dead timber will not benefit adjacent landowners. Number 1500 DICK BISHOP, Representative, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), testified in Juneau. The AOC at its annual meeting voted in favor of the bill. It is going in the right direction. Amendments might be appropriate, but the AOC has not come up with any yet. It is right to harvest beetled-killed timber as expeditiously as possible. He suggested specifically mentioning a reference to the creation of wildlife habitats. There is the potential in logging, natural fires, and prescribed burnings for taking measures that will greatly enhance wildlife habitats and populations. Number 1631 GEORGE MATZ testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He opposes HB 284. Fiscally, it comes at a time when the state needs to concentrate on existing programs with established needs rather than starting a new program. Economically, it is not feasible. Scientifically, it is based more on alchemy rather than biology. In addition, the Division of Forestry has stated that salvaging won't control spruce bark beetles. It also takes private land. He has land in the Rabbit Creek area in Anchorage, and last year he noticed a few signs of spruce bark beetle infestation. He would want some compensation for taking his trees, otherwise he would take the state to court. In court the state would have a hard time proving it is an ecological catastrophe. He suggested looking at the recommendations from the Kenai Peninsula task force. They will be a lot less emotional and more logical. Number 1890 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN explained there is a bill requiring the government to compensate private property owners anytime land is taken by regulation. It is a two-way street. There are a lot of private property owners that would like the law. MR. MATZ stated the bill says the commissioner "shall" enter into an agreement with the owner. It is a very Gestapo approach when it has not been proven that it is a public health concern or an overriding public need. The fiscal note should take into account all the compensation requested. Number 1992 DAN STEIN testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is opposed to the bill. The change is important, but (5) should be dropped from the bill because there are many other things that could be waived by the commissioner. Number 2036 DOUGLAS YATES testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is opposed to the bill. He recommends that the bill be put on hold, until the recommendations are made public from the Kenai task force. Number 2058 DAVE WALLINGFORD, Department of Natural Resources, announced he is sitting in for Jeff Jahnke, state forester, who is on the Kenai Peninsula attending the first spruce bark beetle task force meeting. He is here to answer any questions. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the bill will be held over. ADJOURNMENT Number 2075 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee meeting at 1:49 p.m.