HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE February 5, 1998 1:05 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair Representative Fred Dyson Representative Joe Green Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Reggie Joule MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Ramona Barnes Representative William K.(Bill) Williams SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Robin Taylor COMMITTEE CALENDAR * HOUSE BILL NO. 168 "An Act relating to use of traditional means of access to assist in taking game or fish and to traditional means of access for traditional outdoor activities on land and water set aside for fish and game purposes; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSHB 168(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2(RES) Relating to management of Alaska's wildlife resources. - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 168 SHORT TITLE: TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVI SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MASEK Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 03/05/97 543 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/05/97 543 (H) RESOURCES, STATE AFFAIRS 02/05/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 WITNESS REGISTER WAYNE REGELIN, Director Division of Wildlife Conservation Department of Fish and Game P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526 Telephone: (907) 465-4190 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168. EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Masek Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 432 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-2679 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168. CLIFF EAMES, Representative Alaska Center for the Environment 519 West 8th Avenue, Number 201 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 274-3621 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. PATTI SAUNDERS 1233 West 11th Avenue Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 278-9308 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. ED DAVIS P.O. Box 71616 Anchorage, Alaska 99707 Telephone: (907) 479-7263 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168. GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks Tanana Chiefs Conference, Incorporated 122 1st Avenue Fairbanks, Alaska 99710 Telephone: (907) 452-8251 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. SARA CALLAGHAN, Representative Northern Alaskan Environmental Center 218 Driveway Street Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 452-5021 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. GINNY WOOD 1819 Muskox Trail Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Telephone: (907) 479-2754 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. CELIA HUNTER 1819 Muskox Trail Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Telephone: (907) 479-2754 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. BOB GREEN, Representative Alaska Frontier Trappers Association 951 Bunker Hill Wasilla, Alaska 99654 Telephone: (907) 376-2621 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. ROD ARNO, President Alaska Outdoor Council 211 4th Street, Suite 302 A Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 463-3830 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. W.L. (RED) DECKER H.C. 01 Box 6486-D Palmer, Alaska 99645 Telephone: (907) 745-6784 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. RON SILAS, Vice Chairman Minto-Nenana Advisory Committee Address not provided Telephone: Not provided POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. PETE SCHAEFFER P.O. Box 296 Kotzebue, Alaska 99752 Telephone: (907) 442-3467 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. GILBERT HUNTINGTON Address not provided Telephone: Not provided POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. LYNN LEVENGOOD 931 Vide Way Fairbanks, Alaska 99712 Telephone: (907) 452-5196 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. BILL HAGAR 431 Gaffey Road Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 452-6295 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. PAULA PHILLIPS 311 West 15th Terrace Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 274-4594 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. TOM MEACHAM 9500 Prospect Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99516 Telephone: (907) 346-1077 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168. ELIZABETH HATTON, President Alaska Quiet Rights Coalition H.C. 52 Box 8900 Indian, Alaska 99540 Telephone: (907) 653-7649 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168. MICHAEL EASTHAM P.O. Box 475 Homer, Alaska 99603 Telephone: (907) 235-2603 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. GERALD BROOKMAN 715 Muir Avenue Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-9329 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168. ROY BURKHART P.O. Box 204 Willow, Alaska 99688 Telephone: (907) 495-6337 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. DON SHERWOOD, President Alaska Boating Association P.O. Box 210430 Anchorage, Alaska 99521 Telephone: (907) 333-6268 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. LEONARD HAIRE P.O. Box 879030 Wasilla, Alaska 99687 Telephone: (907) 376-6183 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. TOM LOGAN P.O. Box 520253 Big Lake, Alaska 99652 Telephone: (907) 892-7072 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-6, SIDE A Number 0001 CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Ogan and Dyson. Co-Chairman Hudson arrived at 1:20 p.m. Representatives Green, Masek, Joule and Nicholia arrived at 1:06 p.m., 1:10 p.m., and 1:11 p.m., respectively. HB 168 - TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVI CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House Bill No. 168, "An Act relating to use of traditional means of access to assist in taking game or fish and to traditional means of access for traditional outdoor activities on land and water set aside for fish and game purposes; and providing for an effective date." Number 0148 WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, explained HB 168 would limit the ability of the Board of Game to establish control-use areas - areas that are used to restrict access to lands by hunters. The board does not have any authority to control access for any purpose except hunting. Control-use areas have been a valuable tool for the board for many years. They often provide a diversity of hunting experiences for the public, protect wildlife populations and habitats, and reduce user conflicts. Currently, there are 26 control-use areas in the state. The first was established in 1971. Thirteen were established prior to 1979, and nine have been established in the last eight years. Eight of the twenty-six control-use areas are for the purposes of trophy hunting for sheep. House Bill 168 would not affect the existing control-use areas, but it would reduce the ability of the board to address the issue of user conflict when it is the board's responsibility to make allocation decisions amongst the users. In addition, HB 168 would limit the Department of Fish and Game's and the Board of Game's ability to restrict traditional access on state wildlife refuges, sanctuaries and critical habitat areas, unless it was biologically essential for the protection of wildlife and an alternative method of access was available. There is no concern with sanctuaries because the legislature already authorizes regulations on restrictions to access in sanctuaries. There is no languages in the bill that would authorize restriction on access for refuges and critical habitat areas. The legislature creates the areas for specific purposes and usually because of public demand. The Department of Fish and Game then writes a management plan for the areas that may have certain types of access restrictions. He cited the Trading Bay Game Refuge was established to protect nesting water fowl. Hunting is allowed in the fall, but there is a restriction against motorized use during the nesting season. In regards to the retroactive section in the bill, there are quite a number of state refuges, critical habitat areas, and sanctuaries so it would take a lot of time to revisit the areas. Number 0630 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the House Resources Standing Committee achieved a quorum at 1:10 p.m. Number 0648 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Regelin, if the traditional accesses are opened, are there places that would be overbearing to the point of creating a problem. He wondered whether most of the areas were of limited access anyway. Number 0685 MR. REGELIN replied some of the refuges are very remote, such as Trading Bay, but others are not. The Palmer Hay Flats State Game Refuge is between Palmer and Anchorage where access is restricted in the spring to protect the nesting birds. Number 0731 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether HB 168 would potentially open up the Palmer Hay Flats State Game Refuge. MR. REGELIN replied it could open it up, potentially. But, he could not imagine it would not be one that the division would not be allowed to restrict. He does not know what would happen in the interim if the bill passed. He wondered whether the division would have to look at each of the refuges and specific restrictions. That might not be the intent of the bill, however. Number 0764 REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA asked Mr. Regelin whether HB 168 would allow for a renewed restriction after the removal of a restriction. Number 0802 MR. REGELIN replied some control-use areas have been deleted. House Bill 168 would require legislative action, depending upon the purpose for the new restriction. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated it is important to be able to act fast when a population is low to get the regulations into place. "You can't really wait for the legislature to convene. And, so, I guess, that's where I have a problem." She asked Mr. Regelin whether the Galena control-use area has been successful. Number 0879 MR. REGELIN replied the Koyukuk control-use near Galena has been in existence since the mid-1980s. It has been highly successfully. It limits access into the Three Day Slough to boats only; it requires leaving the meat on the hindquarters of the bone until leaving the field; and it requires people to stop at a check station. There has been very good cooperation between the locals and non-locals. And, it has kept the harvest level high allowing for longer seasons. Number 0990 REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE asked Mr. Regelin whether there is a management or biological need for this type of legislation. Number 1016 MR. REGELIN replied it is not necessary for good wildlife management. It would put another layer of review at the legislative level. Number 1053 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Regelin in regards to the issue of subsistence, in terms of co-management and the utilization of local knowledge, would having a bill like HB 168 on the books limit issues at the local and regional levels. Number 1096 MR. REGELIN replied it is possible. Control-use areas have been used in the past to help resolve conflicts to provide an advantage to the people that live in the area. Number 1167 REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK, sponsor of HB 168, stated HB 168 was introduced as a companion bill to HB 23 passed last year. Over the past three years she has been working to ensure public access to the common property resources. Due to increasing restrictions on the general public's ability to gain reasonable access to the fish and wildlife waters and lands they own, this effort is important for Alaskans at this time. With the passage of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) in 1980, Alaska had much of its prime areas put into management (indic.) under control of the federal land managers. For the most part, these areas are subjected to very strict controls or restrictions on many traditional means of accesses. Furthermore, the state itself has set aside areas for access restriction and, of course, there are many parts of Alaska where some means of access are left out or restricted due to the remoteness of the area. In addition, considering that over 60 percent of Alaska is closed to some form of traditional access, especially motorized access, it is important that the legislators move to provide guidelines for managing agencies. House Bill 168 would not prevent managing agencies from restricting access in instances of biological concerns. It would not open lands that are already restricted or shut the door on managing agencies to create new closed areas. A new area would have to meet legislative approval only if the prohibition is over a period of eight months or more. The most important reason to support HB 168 is to recognize access to lands and waters that are owned by Alaskans without undue restrictions, to recognize the use of motorized access for the physically handicapped, and to give guidance to the managing agencies to strike a true balance between conflicting uses and accessing public lands and waters. Number 1346 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Representative Masek wouldn't there be a fiscal cost if the legislature was called back into session in the event of an emergency. Number 1370 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK replied, "What this bill does...It will not preclude biological concerns that are happening. It's going to be case-by-case at...It shows that it's going to be a closure of more than eight months then they'd have to come back to the legislative body for approval. And, I don't believe that there would be that large of a fiscal note attached since we will be in session. And, if it happens it means they could shut it down for three months then another three months then another three month then they could do that. And, I'm sure there will be cases where they wouldn't have to shut it down for a period of more than eight months so that should answer your question, I hope." Number 1428 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied it did not answer her question. Number 1436 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON asked whether he is correct to infer that the Administration does not have a problem with the bill. Number 1465 MR. REGELIN replied he has not had time to meet with the Governor's staff for the status of the bill. It is a bill that the division could live with, with modifications. The system is not broken, however. There is good value in the control-use areas in terms of resolving conflicts. He would hate for the board to lose such a valuable tool. He cited a recent area was controlled on the Kenai Peninsula that improved the quality of the hunt. There was no biological reason to control the area, but it was popular with most of the hunters, and it made the hunt more pleasant for the vast majority of the hunters. In reference to an emergency closure, the Department of Fish and Game has emergency authority to close seasons with a twenty-four hour notice. Control-use areas are usually not used on an emergency basis, however. Number 1550 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 is concerned about the issues surrounding Game Management Unit 13, a very popular area. He asked Mr. Regelin whether there is a way to achieve legislative oversight without getting involved in every area. He is concerned about the bill creating a lot of additional legislation and micro-management when it is trying to get a handle on the Board of Game, when it exceeds the wishes of constituents. Number 1652 MR. REGELIN replied Game Management Unit 13 is the most popular hunting area in Alaska. It currently has five small control-use areas. Open access is necessary for the department to achieve its game management goals in the unit. The requests to limit access in the unit are because it has become a very popular winter snowmobile area. But, most of the snowmobile use is high in elevation and does not impact the wildlife resources or habitat. Therefore, at this, time a restriction is not necessary. The Department of Fish and Game will continue to look into the issue, however. MR. REGELIN further stated boards that struggle with control-use areas pass about 1 out of 15 proposals. They are adopted only when there is large public support from the local advisory committees and hunters. In terms of the legislature getting involved, it could always overrule a regulation that a board passed. Number 1885 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN replied a proposed constitutional amendment to overrule a regulation passed by a board was voted down by the people. Number 1893 MR. REGELIN stated the legislature can pass a statute that indicates an open area. And, the Board of Game can not pass a regulation that would conflict with the statute. Number 1943 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said, with the state growing and the increasing amount of people accessing lands, control is necessary, not response to a big public outcry. House Bill 168 is trying to give more power back to the legislature instead of the boards. Number 2028 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated the legislature is getting into micro-management with this bill. "Yes, we are elected officials, but we're not the biologists. As far as I know, not one person in the House of Representatives has a biology degree and has background and experience in biology of our wildlife resources." It is wrong to micro-manage the Board of Game. Number 2073 CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the bill only would apply to state lands. MR. REGELIN replied, "No." It would apply to all Alaskan lands. There are control-use areas on federal lands as well. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the bill would apply to federal and private lands. MR. REGELIN replied, "Yes." CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin what stimulates a public outcry for a closure, noise from all terrain vehicles, for example. Number 2111 MR. REGELIN replied the Board of Game passed a restriction on air boats around Fairbanks in certain areas primarily because of noise and changes to the habitat. It is still very controversial and is going to be considered at the board meeting in February. The Board of Game also passed a restriction in Unit 20E, north of Tok, to limit all terrain vehicles to the trails and to lengthen the season. Number 2184 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the Tok closure was more a matter of habitat protection rather than noise. MR. REGELIN replied it was a matter of limiting the harvest for a longer season. Number 2199 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated, as far as Mr. Regelin knows, the Administration feels that the standards would permit the Department of Fish and Game to continue to manage. He asked Mr. Regelin whether he believed the Administration would not accept the bill on that basis. Number 2219 MR. REGELIN replied, "I don't have the ability to speak with what the Governor might or might not do." The Department of Fish and Game could work with the bill the way it is written because of the time limits and sizes. He was more concerned about the refuges in terms of practicality, and because it is a valuable tool for the Board of Game to help resolve conflicts. Number 2281 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked how much is 640 acres in terms of square miles. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied 640 acres is a square mile. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN referred to page 2, (4), "expressly authorized under this title; of", and asked whether there was any other area in Title 16 that the subsection would reference. Number 2345 EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Masek, Alaska State Legislature, replied it would refer to areas that may have closures or restrictions placed on them like in refuges or critical habitats that are closed. Number 2353 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, then it describes a game refuge that already has a closure and is already in the title. Number 2360 MR. GRASSER referred to page 2, line 28 and explained it would be necessary to remove the language "Department of Natural Resources,". House Bill 23 by Representative Masek covered the Department of Natural Resources last year. It would be redundant to have it in HB 168. Number 2380 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 2, line 17 and wondered whether "1997" is an oversight considering that the bill was introduced last year. MR. GRASSER stated it would be up to Representative Masek, the sponsor of the bill. He is not aware of anything taking place since January 1, 1997, anyway. It could be changed to "1998", if the sponsor or committee so desired. MR. GRASSER stated, in reference to federal lands mentioned earlier, a person can not take an all terrain vehicle into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) because it is prohibited by the federal land manager. "So, even if the department said you could or the Board of Game said you could or the legislature said you could, you can't. And, you can't take them onto private lands either, unless you have the permission of the property owner." Number 2420 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said state law is supreme to private land owners. He wondered, if the state put in a control-use area and it incorporated private land, just because it is private land does not mean people would be able to run an all terrain vehicle on it. MR. GRASSER replied, "Correct." The state can not tell a property owner that people are going to start running all over his or her land with an all terrain vehicle. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said the state can prohibit it. MR. GRASSER replied the state can not prohibit a land owner from operating an all terrain vehicle on his or her own land. The Endangered Species Act has those types of implications. He was not sure whether it was true for state law, however. MR. REGELIN said the state can not prohibit a landowner from using an all terrain vehicle on his or her property. Number 2458 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated on Native lands there are control-use areas and the state reserves the right to manage.... TAPE 98-6, SIDE B Number 0000 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN continued. The general public can not come in there and hunt. He asked whether that is a correct assumption. Number 0010 MR. GRASSER replied, "Correct." The owners and corporate shareholders would be able to still use the lands. Number 0017 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion to delete the language "Department of Natural Resources," on page 2, line 28. There being no objection, it was so moved. Number 0038 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether there would be a problem with the Department of Fish and Game because of the language in the bill "After January 1, 1997". He wondered whether it should be changed to "1998". CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Regelin whether there has been any action since January 1, 1997 that the bill would affect. Number 0066 MR. REGELIN replied, "I'm not sure." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether it would cause any heartburn to change the date from "1997" to "1998". REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated she did not have a problem with it. Number 0084 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change the language from "1997" to "1998" on page 2, lines 14 and 17. Number 0092 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked whether the motion would also apply to "1997" on page 3, line 23. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change the language from "1997" to "1998" on page 2, lines 14 and 17; and page 3, line 23. There being no objection, it was so moved. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN opened the meeting up to the teleconference network. Number 0122 CLIFF EAMES, Representative, Alaska Center for the Environment, testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He stated he would focus on the natural quiet questions and user-conflict issues because the bill would drastically restrict the ability of the agencies to resolve user conflicts. House Bill 168 is the third in a pattern of bills (SB 35 and HB 23) that would discriminate against people seeking natural quiet, including private cabin and home owners. It would also discriminates against traditional means of access such as, foot and paddle. It would also make it very difficult for the agencies to right a gross imbalance between areas open to motorized uses and areas managed for quiet recreation. In addition, these bills would tell us that 104 million acres of state owned land is not enough to provide for both types of uses - motorized and non-motorized. Non-motorized users would be free to use the areas, but not enjoy it. It is unfair to argue that there are choices because "what if I wanted to pray in the church of my choice, my local church, or read a book or magazine at the library, or go to see a movie or play at the local theater, and in all of these places I find that there are speakers in all four corners of these locations blaring out heavy metal rock music? These places would have become so unpleasant to me that I would have left them, yes, voluntarily. But, I am displaced from them. It's my choice, but don't we really have an obligation to provide for everyone, to provide quiet churches, libraries and theaters, as well as noisy ones. And, to provide for some quiet public lands, as well as noisy public lands." He announced the center very much opposes the bill. The ability to resolve conflicts is a tool that land managers should have; they have not used it indiscriminately. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN acknowledged that Senator Robin Taylor has been in the audience and has been listening intensely for quite some time. Number 0286 PATTI SAUNDERS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She is opposed to the bill not to protect the resources or for the balance between quiet users and motorized users, but because it is bad government. There are three branches of government for very good reasons. The administrative agencies are suppose to administer which is what the bills tries to undo. The bill is not practicable or reasonable. There is no biological or management reason for the bill. There have not been any examples of actual abuse of the power delegated to the agencies. There are only statements regarding the abuse of authority which is not a good basis for legislation. In addition, a better government is a government that tries to resolve local issues at a local level because the local land managers and the users tend to have the most information and concern. It is not a good idea to take it away from the local level and give it to the legislature in Juneau where there is less information. House Bill 168 is not justified by any actual problem; there is nothing to fix. There is no need to fix a system that is not broken. It does not provide any guidance to the land managers as suggested earlier in regards to a balance of use. There is no evidence that there is an imbalance at this point against motorized uses. She asked the committee members to reject the bill. Number 0428 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Ms. Saunders whether she is aware of how many acres are off limits to motorize vehicles in the state. MS. SAUNDERS replied, "No." She does not have that information at her disposal. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, he believes, it is quite a bit. It would be an interesting fact to bring up for the discussion. Number 0455 ED DAVIS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He is speaking as a private property owner, and as a member of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation (Indis.) He lives on a trail network in Fairbanks where private property notices are posted between two public areas. The residents welcome the hikers, mushers and skiers, and ask the motorized vehicles to keep off of the property. Last week, a resident discovered that the borough is trying to come up with an easement to connect the public areas, but it would not be able to prohibit motorized vehicles from traveling on the trails because of a state law. He suggested creating a multiple-use state network of trails with major arteries between the cities that would be open to all types of uses. The branches would be used for skiers or whatever. He asked that the laws be corrected so that the residents could grant an easement while still having their private property rights honored. Number 0640 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated his testimony is on a different subject matter than the issue in HB 168, however, he would take note of his comments. Number 0673 GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks, Tanana Chiefs Conference, Incorporated (TCC), testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He announced TCC opposes HB 168. It would not only limit the Board of Game, but it would also create a user conflict with local hunters and non-local hunters. The (indis.) control-use area has been very successful. The moose population is coming back up. In regards to the air boats mentioned earlier, they are impacting other areas and waterfowl because they are able to go further back. The bill would impact the Board of Game from successfully managing the wildlife resources. Number 0771 SARA CALLAGHAN, Representative, Northern Alaskan Environmental Center, testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. The Northern Center opposes HB 168. It replaces sensible management with an unneeded legislative restriction. Unrestricted motorized access would pose a direct threat to wildlife and wildlife habitat affecting some of the state's most important wildlife areas including refuges and sanctuaries. It would also hinder ongoing preservation and management efforts. In addition, private individuals, many local economic enterprises that depend on silent and serene experiences, subsistence, and recreational hunting and fishing would also be affected. The Northern Center also feels that HB 168 is going to replace the careful piece-by-piece management with an all inclusive law. Lastly, HB 168 proposes no findings, therefore, it is not resolving any issue. It is an overreaching legislative solution to a problem that does not necessarily even exist. It does not justify curtailing resource management authorities. Number 0873 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there was a huge outpouring of people in opposition to a proposal that was brought forth to close Unit 13 to traditional access and motorized vehicles. Number 0905 MS. CALLAGHAN replied there is definitely support on both sides. The bill, however, deprives people of a fair chance to work out their differences for a suitable solution. Number 0936 GINNY WOOD testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. She is representing herself, but has served for twenty years on the North Slope Borough Trails Commission, and is presently on the Governor's Track Commission. When she came to Alaska in 1947 the total population was about 180,000. Everyone could do whatever they wanted anywhere, except robe or shot someone, without causing much impact on the natural environment, resources, wildlife or each other. Now, sportsmen want the same freedoms with few restrictions or responsibilities. They want the government off of their backs, yet want the government to provide roads, trails, campgrounds, services and maintenance of the facilities. The clock can not be turned back, and we can not have the freedoms of the frontier with no rules. Number 1139 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated HB 168 would not open more accesses. It talks about existing accesses. Number 1169 CELIA HUNTER testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. She is very much opposed to HB 168 for all of the reasons heard so far. In addition, the bill messes around with the whole concept of the traditional use definition. Technology is driving the change, but morality and conscientiousness has not accompanied it. The big fear of a bill like HB 168. It puts the legislature in between management and the resource when it is not capable of such a thing. Number 1293 BOB GREEN, Representative, Alaska Frontier Trappers Association, testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. The association represents about 150 families that favor HB 168. The members depend upon road vehicles for transportation to get to their home sites, cabins or trap lines. A prudent person acts before a problem develops which is what HB 168 does. Politics are entering into the professional offices of fish and game biologists influencing what is happening. People get discouraged when they hear that things are happening beyond their control so they turn to their legislators for relief. Areas will be out right closed to off-road vehicles if something is not done. The association is concerned mainly about access to allow a person to do his or her thing. We are all concerned about biological and environmental reasons and the bill addresses the concerns. Number 1431 ROD ARNO, President, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. The AOC support HB 168. He is amazed of the lack of understanding of those that oppose the bill. It is an issue of allowing traditional means of access by hunters, fishers and trappers into areas open to those activities. It is extremely important that hunters are able to distribute themselves over a wide area in order that they do not concentrate their efforts near existing roads. It not only provides more quality experiences, but it also distributes the use and the hunters out on the terrain. In rural areas there are numerous trails where villagers access the areas by snowmobiles distributing the harvest. He urges the House of Representatives to pass the bill. Number 1565 W.L. (RED) DECKER testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He represents many of the hunters who have access to Game Management Unit 13. In regards to the issue of Unit 13, there are no maps made up of the archeological area out of Swede Lake. We also have a problem with a conflict of interest in the Board of Game. A great many of the members are either in air taxi services or are guides. According to the state constitution, the caribou heard area in Unit 13 should be open to the people of the state for motorized and non-motorized access. Motorized means a track rig, boat, 4-wheeler, or swamp buggy. An aircraft is not included and it is definitely not an on-road vehicle creating another conflict of interest. For 30 years most of us have hunted Unit 13 for survival and there are quite a few of us who are disabled. He finally found a cabin in the area, but would not be able to hunt and take out the same day, according to a rule they were trying to pass. House Bill 168 is very good and we want to thank Representative Masek for brining the issue forward to help us. In addition, any hearings and meetings should be held in the area of Unit 13, not out in some other area. Number 1833 RON SILAS, Vice Chairman, Minto-Nenana Advisory Committee, testified via teleconference in Minto. He is also speaking on behalf of the village of Minto. We are opposed to HB 168. It is not broke so why fix it. Number 1938 PETE SCHAEFFER testified via teleconference in Kotzebue. The bill does not keep up with the regulatory authority needed by the Board of Game. He is also concerned about the administrative load. He is opposed to HB 168. Number 2014 GILBERT HUNTINGTON testified via teleconference in Galena. He is opposed to HB 168. It has the appearance of fixing a problem that is not there. The board process has worked very well for years and it will continue to work effectively without interference. The proposal would hinder any thoughts of relaxing control-use area restrictions. It would set the present control-use areas in stone in as much as the legislature and its' jack hammer would allow it to be. The people in Galena consider the bill another attack on their distance. They have relied on the control-use areas to protect them. He is a big game guide and lives in a control-use area, therefore, he sees the value of it. Number 2174 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 would not restrict any relaxing of control-use areas. Number 2213 MR. HUNTINGTON stated the bill would hinder any thought to relax a control-use area because they would not be able to get it back. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated it is a good point. Number 2278 LYNN LEVENGOOD testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is also surprised by the lack of understanding of the issues by many of the prior speakers. The system is broke, it needs to be fixed. Alaska Statute 16.05.255 provides no legal authority for the board to zone. The statute provides no legal authority to the board other than to biologically manage Alaska's wildlife resources. Thus, to create a control-use area when there is an abundance of wildlife supersedes the Board of Game's authority which is what HB 168 is aimed at. The bill is just a baby step in trying to address the problem. He thinks it should be amended to preclude any regulations that are not biologically necessary to prevent discrimination. TAPE 98-7, SIDE A Number 0000 MR. LEVENGOOD continued. He would make the bill retroactive. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Levengood to state for the record what he does for a living. MR. LEVENGOOD replied he is a self-employed attorney in Fairbanks. He is also the Executive Director of the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Association. Number 0057 BILL HAGAR testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He does not believe in granting individual use. The common use clause of the constitution prohibits the state from granting to any person or groups privilege or monopolistic access to a natural resource. It has been tested time and again in the "supreme" court. He is very much in favor of HB 168. Number 0155 PAULA PHILLIPS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She is a wilderness recreation tour guide and lives in Anchorage. She just came over from an eco-tourism conference - a conference that brought together small-scale tour operators whose livelihoods depended on preserving wilderness values including quiet recreational opportunities. She brought over nine letters that have been faxed to the House Resources Standing Committee in opposition to HB 168 including letters from the Alaska Wild Land Adventures, Copper Ore Adventures, and the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association. We do not approve of tying the hands of the authorities charged with protecting these wild areas. We agree that the legislature should encourage responsible agencies and the public to work together. The clients of the businesses that depend on a wild and quiet Alaska want the opportunity to view undisturbed wildlife in a natural setting; it is why they come to Alaska. Number 0265 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced there are 65 million acres set aside for non-motorized use in the state of Alaska. Number 0294 TOM MEACHAM testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He is a former member of the Board of Game and a member of the Quiet Rights Coalition. Upon examination, almost all of the lands closed to motorized uses are federal lands, not state lands. The state has a responsibility through the legislature to meet the needs of all state residents for recreation and remote homesite use. In fact, about 5 to 10 percent of the state lands are closed to motorized uses. As a member of the Board of Game he realized that it performs a very necessary function in resolving user conflicts. The legislature does not have the stomach to do it and, in fact, user conflicts would not be resolved by the passage of HB 168. They would be resolved for all time in one direction only - everything open so that more dominant uses prevail. The restrictions on motorized use in areas are not necessarily for the resolution of conflicts, but to protect the habitat and wildlife. The most dangerous part of HB 168 is the inability to control the permanent damaging effects of wheeled vehicles. Unit 13 is a prime example. There is a growing network of trails that will scare the landscape for decades even if the use stops tomorrow. The outcry in regards to Unit 13 was on both sides of the fence. It was not completely against any further restrictions. This is where the Board of Game provides a valuable function as a sounding board to resolve these types of issues on a regional or local basis. In addition, there needs to be a better definition of "all terrain vehicle" because recreational mining is listed as one of the recreational opportunities for access. Is the use of caterpillar tractors and bulldozers to blaze trails on public lands a form of all terrain vehicle access, he wondered. There needs to be an upper weight limit for a definition of all terrain vehicle, otherwise there will be damage to the lands for generations to come. In closing, the state has long desired to open up (ANWR) for oil drilling and exploration under the pretext of knowing how to protect and preserve its resources. Thus, a bill like HB 168 and its predecessors last year shots us in the foot in the eyes of outsiders who will be making decisions on opening up ANWR. Number 0617 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 deals with Title 16, the portion regarding the Department of Natural Resources has been deleted; therefore, recreational mining is not covered. In regards to damage to the environment, some all terrain vehicles do not put any more pressure on the ground than a human foot print, while others exceed it greatly. He cited Section 16.05.255 and stated there is nothing in statute that gives the Board of Game authority to regulate access other than for biological reasons and the bill is trying to keep within the parameters. Number 0695 ELIZABETH HATTON, President, Alaska Quiet Rights Coalition, testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She supports some of the prior testimony. And in addition, we have a number of hunters and fishers who want to join the coalition because the reasons why they hunt or fish are disappearing. There are a number of hunters who feel that the animals are moving further away because of the pressures of motorized hunting. There are lots of fisher who are very, very upset about jet skis and air boats wrecking their quiet fishing experience. Although the bill talks about tradition access, most of us think of it as walking. We have a large number of folks out here opposed to HB 168 because they feel that they are losing the Alaska that have enjoyed. Number 0859 MICHAEL EASTHAM testified via teleconference in Homer. He is appalled at some of the previous testifiers today. They are very self-oriented. There are a lot of public lands that are shrinking to outdoor recreational vehicles use. How much should we give away so that people have a quiet place to walk when there are thousands and thousands of acres to do that on, he wondered. In addition, there are a lot of handicapped people that can not walk the lands so that recreational vehicles are necessary. He represents the snowmobile club in the Homer-Anchor Point area that very much favors HB 168. Ninety-four percent of Alaskans recreate in the state. It would be a shame to see more state lands put into areas where we could not do that. Number 0975 GERALD BROOKMAN testified via teleconference in Homer. He listed the previous speakers that he agreed with. He asked the committee members to please read his statement that he faxed earlier to the House Resources Standing Committee. Number 1057 ROY BURKHART testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He just got a proposal from the Department of Fish and Game on the Alaska joint boards of fishery and read the provision dealing with the accommodation of persons with disabilities. In regards to testimony earlier, there is no regulation that mentions a quality hunt. It does establish the means, methods employed and pursuit of resource conservation and goals. Older Alaskans rely heavily on motorized vehicles for access such as veterans. It is important to pass the bill because the Board of Game has no balance; the country is run on checks and balances. In regards to Unit 13, the Alaska Boating Association requested a copy of the complaints, but they were destroyed so that a copy was not obtained. In regards to Title 16, there is one place that a person with physical disability is granted a special dispensation - Units 1 to 5 in Southeast. The person has to be wheelchair bound and can shot from a boat. It is the only exception given to anybody with a physical disability. It is totally wrong. In regards to the noise, he drives an air boat but the noise does not bother him because he wears ear protectors. "If they're out there, they can do the same thing." His boat is no louder than a gun shot. Number 1295 DON SHERWOOD, President, Alaska Boating Association (ABA), testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He has been a resident of Alaska for over 30 years. He is also a disabled American veteran. He has heard only so far greed. The ABA has always tried to create a fair and equitable way of motorized access on our state public lands and waterways. But, the Department of Natural Resources continues in its off-handed way to impose unnecessary and unscientific restrictions so that it is now necessary to protect the motorized public. It has to seize or the citizens of Alaska will continue to be crowed into a less and less area just so the preservationist can take away more areas from human use. With less than 1 percent of the land in use today, it is nothing but an attack on our ability to develop both renewable and natural resources. With hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation as a primary reason for so many to come to the state, it is now necessary to protect these rights. We think HB 168 will do it for us. Number 1402 LEONARD HAIRE testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He is a business owner in the valley and a boat manufacturer. Every time a restriction that is not warranted is passed, it makes it a lot harder to be a businessman. The only reason for a restriction in the Tanana Flats and Sleetmute, for example, is because somebody asked for one. The bill is way over due. Number 1482 TOM LOGAN testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. We need to pass the bill. He wholeheartedly supports it. He cited a community council where the membership was new. By the same token, the Governor could appoint all quiet-zone people to the Board of Game then we would all be up a creek. Number 1536 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change "1997" to "1998" on page 1, line 7. There being no objection, it was so moved. Number 1559 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to move HB 168, as amended, from the committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero fiscal note. Number 1566 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA and REPRESENTATIVE JOULE objected simultaneously. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated the bill is not needed at this time. She does not see why the legislature is taking a local control away from the public. The best biologists are the people in the local areas. The reason the Board of Game was put in place is to do this type of job. The legislature gave it authority to work on issues like this. The legislature does not have the time to work on issues like this. It does not belong in this body. According to the testimony, the problem exists pretty much in only Unit 13. Therefore, the bill should only pertain to Unit 13 and should not include the whole state. The authority should be in the local communities where the issue are. That is why there are local advisory committees and regional councils - to make the system work. The legislature should not involve itself in the issue; it should be left to the public. Number 1709 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated the legislature can not pass a law that would not be applicable to all areas of the state. In addition, HB 168 would provide the Department of Fish and Game and the Board of Game an adequate opportunity for biological exceptions to protect game. Number 1754 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA referred to page 2, line 3 and stated authorization belongs with the public, not the legislature. The legislature has enough on its plate. The legislature does not have the time to go through all the biological information and talk to the people involved with an issue. "You probably don't realize how extensive this really is. We're putting another burden onto the legislature that we don't need." In addition, there does not appear to be a need for the bill, if 1 out of 15 proposals are adopted by the Board of Game for a control-use area. The legislature has more important things to work on than to bother with an issue that the Board of Game is authorized to work on. Number 1817 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the legislature delegates authority to the Board of Game. It is certainly within the legislature's authority to take it back. Number 1831 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Section 16.05.794(a)(3) and stated it applies to both fish and game. It gives a safeguard to the Boards of Game and Fisheries. "What I think this is intending to do, and the reason I'm supporting it, is that we have a beautiful state that is only accessible by the very wealthy. If it's not on the road system and we can't access it in a traditional manner, then we keep getting less and less and less use of the largest state in the union. And that's wrong." Number 1881 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE stated if it isn't broke then don't fix it. In regards to Unit 13, it is an issue, but the Department of Fish and Game is continuing to look at it to allow access. It shows a system, while not perfect, that when there is an outcry people will listen. The same process seems to happen in the legislature as well. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called for a roll call vote. Representatives Dyson, Green, Masek, Hudson and Ogan voted in favor of moving the bill. Representatives Joule and Nicholia voted against moving the bill. Therefore, CSHB 168(RES) moved from the House Resources Standing Committee. ADJOURNMENT Number 1989 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee meeting at 3:18 p.m.