HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE April 19, 1997 1:45 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair Representative Ramona Barnes Representative Fred Dyson Representative Joe Green Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Reggie Joule MEMBERS ABSENT Representative William K. ("Bill") Williams COMMITTEE CALENDAR CONFIRMATION HEARINGS: Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission Marlene A. Johnson - Juneau Bruce Twomley - Juneau - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED Board of Fisheries Larry J. Engel - Palmer Robert E. (Ed) Dersham - Anchor Point - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission Mary Coffey Marshburn - Homer - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED WITNESS REGISTER MARLENE A. JOHNSON, Appointee to the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission 9505 Antler Way Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 789-4833 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the CFEC. JERRY McCUNE, President United Fishermen of Alaska 211 Fourth Street, Suite 112 Telephone: (907) 586-2820 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Marlene Johnson and Bruce Twomley as appointees to the CFEC. BRUCE TWOMLEY, Appointee to the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission P.O. Box 020972 Juneau, Alaska 99802-0972 Telephone: (907) 789-6160 (wk); 586-3251 (hm) POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the CFEC. LARRY ENGEL, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries P.O. Box 197 Palmer, Alaska 99645 Telephone: (907) 745-4132 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of Fisheries. MARY COFFEY MARSHBURN, Appointee to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission P.O. Box 277 Homer, Alaska 99603 Telephone: (907) 235-7978 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the AOGCC. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-46, SIDE A Number 0001 CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:45 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Masek, Barnes, Dyson and Nicholia. Representatives Joule and Green arrived at 1:46 p.m. and 1:47 p.m., respectively. CONFIRMATION HEARINGS CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the committee would consider two nominees for the Board of Fisheries, two for the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, and one for the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. They would not vote for the nominees but would pass them out of committee for full consideration of the House and Senate. (Resumes were provided for all appointees.) Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission Number 0205 MARLENE A. JOHNSON, Appointee to the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC), came forward to testify, saying she knew most of the members there. She told members she'd been interested in fisheries all of her life. A lifelong Alaskan from Southeast Alaska, she'd served in several capacities and in several areas in the fishing industry, including being the chairperson of a processor, serving with fishermen, working with individual fisheries for years, and being a license vendor. Because she has lived in a fishing village, fishing has been very much a part of her life. She has also served on the School of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences advisory board since it was formed, which she believes has been eight years, and she will serve another two years. Ms. Johnson expressed interest in "conservation of our resource" and in ensuring that the fisheries are economic for fishermen. Number 0343 CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN asked how many collective years of experience they would have on the commission, assuming that Ms. Johnson was confirmed. MS. JOHNSON described herself as the "new kid on the block." She said Commissioner Twomley, the chairman, has served since 1982, and Commissioner Anderson has served four years. Members have 16 or 17 years' combined experience, with most of it contributed by Mr. Twomley. Number 0417 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Ms. Johnson to provide her background of past commercial fishing experience and to explain why she is qualified for this job. MS. JOHNSON indicated she'd worked for what is now "Columbia Wards Fisheries," and she also mentioned Coastal Glacier Seafoods and Excursion Inlet Packing Company. She'd done accounting and commercial settlements for crab fishermen, halibut fishermen and salmon fishermen, for example, which was her experience in the early days. Her brothers and sisters were commercial fishermen most of their lives; however, they've either died or retired. MS. JOHNSON advised members that she was then on the Sealaska Corporation board, and she was its chairperson for a number of years. She stated, "We acquired Ocean Beauty Seafoods, which was a conglomerate and had a number of - 18 - companies underneath it. I was the chairman of the board of Ocean Beauty Seafoods, also, and served on the executive committee. So I've worked in that capacity, in the processing." Number 0528 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said there are inherent conflicts coming up with the takeover of fisheries management by the federal government, as well as possible conflicts relating to sovereignty issues, for example. He believes these possibly threaten the existence of commercial fishing, and they undermine the value of permits. He noted that Ms. Johnson had been a board member of the Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN). MS. JOHNSON indicated she'd not only been a board member of the AFN but had helped to form it. She mentioned the Tlingit and Haida Central Council, Executive Committee, as well. Number 0592 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether Ms. Johnson has any conflicts with past associations and the possible threat to commercial fisheries. MS. JOHNSON replied, "No. ... I don't see any conflict whatsoever. I think the state needs to manage the fisheries. I think, if possible, the state should contract with the federal government for whatever they have in managing the fisheries. And I feel very strongly about that. ... My being a member of the Native community does not affect that at all. I don't think in the long run that, at least in my area, ... that my corporation would support that at all." CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether she'd taken an oath to do that. MS. JOHNSON said yes. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether she'd defend the constitution as written. MS. JOHNSON replied, "Absolutely, absolutely. I have no problem with that." Number 0656 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON offered his opinion that Ms. Johnson has the ability to "professionally administer between really varying, different opinions, particularly on the board of directors of the various Native associations." He said over the years he has observed this, and he believes Ms. Johnson has always been a professional. Number 0687 REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE said he is glad to see Ms. Johnson going into something like this. He indicated his belief that Ms. Johnson fully recognizes the commitment of time and energy required. He said to Ms. Johnson, "And on the other boards and commissions that I've sat with you on, in addition to being busy doing other things, you've always managed to be a leader in everything ... that you've done." He said he expects that probably will continue. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE stated, "I guess I am a little concerned about the questions around Alaska Natives that are going to be serving on our boards and commissions and whether or not the conflict with regards to Indian country -- because I think that question can be asked to any resident of the state, both sides of the aisle." He said he understands the concern, and maybe it has to be stated for the record. However, if that is the case, then maybe they should ask that question of people who may be representing the Alaska Outdoor Council or commercial fisheries, or ask it of whoever else has a stake in the outcome of the decision of the Venetie case, rather than specifically asking Alaska Natives just because it is called "Indian country." Number 0804 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON responded that he appreciates Representative Joule's concern, but his own sense is that there is nothing racist about the question. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE said he understands that. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said if the co-chair hadn't asked the question, he himself would have; his perception at this time is that the AFN has an official position that the state constitution must be modified. He said, "And I think it was a legitimate question to ask this apparently very qualified nominee, if there is a conflict between that organization that you're not only a part of but are a founder of and their position and the oath of office you've taken. And I think you satisfied that question very well. And it is a tough question to ask, and a delicate one; I appreciate it coming up." REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented that he would do the same thing with any nominee who was part of an organization. He mentioned consumptive use; he recalled that this committee got into that when a person who'd been part of an organization took exception to what the constitution says. Representative Dyson concluded by saying, "I think the question is legitimate. I will share your objection and jump up and holler if I sense that any of the questions here are unfair, ... based on race. And I appreciate your sensitivity." Number 0906 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES requested clarification on Ms. Johnson's comment about the "state contracting with the federal government to manage." Number 0926 MS. JOHNSON replied, "Those fisheries in the federal waters. I'm talking about the halibut and ... the IFQ [Individual Fishery Quota] programs and those that ... are landed in our state and not taken to Canada, that we need to have a way to enforce our laws with the federal government. And I think we need to find a way to do that." Number 0948 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether Ms. Johnson was speaking about the halibut subsistence fisheries. MS. JOHNSON replied, "No, Mr. Chairman. I'm not speaking about subsistence in any way. And I want that very clear." She said the AFN's position is on subsistence; they don't have a position on commercial fisheries. Ms. Johnson stated, "I feel my role is dealing with commercial fisheries, not with the subsistence fishery." Number 0998 JERRY McCUNE, President, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), came forward to testify, specifying that the UFA's position is to support both nominees for the CFEC. He said they'd been quite comfortable with Bruce Twomley's position on protecting the state's rights on all the issues, including the James (ph) case and limited entry. He stated, "So I think Bruce has done a tremendous job." MR. McCUNE said that after talking to Marlene Johnson and talking to 21 different groups around the state, they're all comfortable that she'll do a good job on the commission, if confirmed. He noted that most members are direct stakeholders; they have permits or are directly tied to commercial fishing. Number 1068 BRUCE TWOMLEY, Appointee to the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC), came forward to testify. Originally appointed to the CFEC by then-Governor Hammond in late 1982, he subsequently was appointed chair by then-Governor Sheffield and had been reappointed since that time. He stated, "I've been very happy to serve on the commission. Prior to serving on the commission, I used to sue state and federal governments for a living and also represented individual fishermen before the commission. And so I have some sense about how agencies affect real people, and I have a sense of how to avoid mistakes that I've seen other agencies make. And I think the area where I can make the primary contribution is in doing adjudications. We are primarily administrative law judges." MR. TWOMLEY spoke on behalf of Marlene Johnson, saying "she brings a special background to our jobs as administrative law judges because she has been one, on a number of occasions in the past, and she served on the Labor Relations Board, for example." MR. TWOMLEY stated, "And so, primarily, what we have to do is apply the law as you have written it. And the job ... is a fairly confining job in that respect, although what isn't confined is the amount of work. ... There is a lot of it, and it's a job that I have found very rewarding, and I certainly appreciate ... your attention to this matter." Number 1170 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated for the record that he is holds a limited entry permit. He commented, "And I don't believe I have a conflict of interest in voting on this, although with your long length of service, my fair treatment before the board might ... be taken to predispose me in your favor. But I don't think that I do have a conflict, but I'll bow to the rule of the chair." Number 1198 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON observed that over the years, Bruce Twomley has been a powerful advocate for the fishermen and fisherwomen of this state, on whose behalf he has taken on the Internal Revenue Service, for example. He expressed appreciation for that. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON advised members that there was no one else to testify on these two candidates. He requested that all members provide their signatures on the appropriate documents. Board of Fisheries Number 1231 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the committee would next consider the two appointees to the Board of Fisheries. Although Larry Engel was on teleconference, Ed Dersham was unavailable for the teleconference that day. Number 1254 LARRY ENGEL, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified via teleconference from Palmer. Born and raised in a rural setting near Seattle, Washington, he was involved in his family's commercial fishing activity in the San Juan Islands as a teenager. He came to Alaska in 1958 with the U.S. Navy and was stationed in Kodiak. He has lived in Alaska ever since, with the exception of time spent in Washington state to further his education. MR. ENGEL began working with the Department of Fish and Game in 1960; he worked there every year until 1992, more than 30 years. Shortly after retirement, he worked as a fishery advisor for the Matanuska-Susitna Borough, through a professional services agreement. In February 1994, he was appointed to the Board of Fisheries by then-Governor Hickel. He'd served a three-year term and is now being considered for a second term. MR. ENGEL said he believes he has the credentials, the desire, the abilities, and the skills to perform the difficult task asked of a Board of Fisheries member, and he is willing to do it. He stated, "The resource has been very kind to me. As I've indicated, more than 30-some years I've been involved in fisheries; I've been able to support my family, raised two fine young sons to ... young adulthood. And now I have the time to give back to that resource, in a voluntary capacity, some of which it's given to me." Number 1356 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN informed members that feedback he'd received has been very complimentary, indicating there is fairness, objectivity, and preparation, and indicating Mr. Engel has been an outstanding board member in his first three years. Number 1385 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether anyone else had questions. He said his own observation over the years has been a testament to Mr. Engel's fairness. He acknowledged that it is an extremely difficult job to do, as evidenced by conflicts between commercial fishing and subsistence or sport fishing, for example. He said he has always felt strongly that professionalism within the CFEC needs to be maintained. He said they have an "awesome job" of trying to allocate on a fair-minded basis. He thanked Mr. Engel. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON again noted that Robert E. (Ed) Dersham from Anchor Point wasn't available on line that day. (Committee packets contained a resume, a press release from the Governor's office, and an endorsement from the Alaska Outdoor Council; the latter two documents refer to other appointees as well.) Co-Chair Hudson advised members that the Speaker of the House has spoken quite highly of Mr. Dersham. Number 1462 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN recalled that they'd heard from Mr. Dersham in the House Special Committee on Fisheries. He confirmed that Speaker Gail Phillips had spoken highly of him; she'd indicated Mr. Dersham always had a level head when things got "hot" on contentious issues, he was statesmanlike, and he could negotiate tough decisions. CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON indicated that portion of the hearing was concluded. Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission Number 1497 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the final item of business was consideration of the confirmation of Mary Coffey Marshburn to the public seat on the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. Number 1530 MARY COFFEY MARSHBURN, Appointee to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (AOGCC), came forward to testify. She explained that the AOGCC's role is, for the benefit of Alaska's people, to ensure efficient depletion of the state's hydrocarbon resources. They do so by preventing waste, both on the surface and below ground, and by maximizing ultimate recovery of the resource and protecting the opportunities of other owners to produce. They do this through a variety of methods, including permitting systems, reservoir surveillance, joint plans of development and field inspections. These help ensure good design of wells and control in production. MS. MARSHBURN stated her belief that a commissioner's role benefits from a broad perspective. On the three-member commission, with a geologist, an engineer and a public member, the positions complement each other. She referred to her 12 years as a municipal clerk and said that position is part of the legislative branch of government, serving as a focal point for representation of the public interest and dealing with the Administration on a daily basis. MS. MARSHBURN explained, "During those 12 years, I developed the ability to deal with all of the segments that I just described, to communicate effectively. I learned that there's obviously more than one view to an issue, more than one solution. I was responsible for developing the community councils program, the ombudsman program, the computerized voting program that you have today. So I'm familiar with program development and also intimately, from those years, aware of protecting public interest." Number 1629 MS. MARSHBURN continued, "The last two years have been spent with the Oil and Gas Policy Council, taking them from the administrative order through the completion of their work, and that was basically a review of all of the state's petroleum policies. ... It was a two-year effort and included examining the fiscal system, all of the resources, the leasing policy, the regulatory environment, North Slope gas commercialization and a number of other issues. It culminated in the writing of two reports, and I think that all members of the legislature got copies of those reports." MS. MARSHBURN said she brings this knowledge of the broader policy areas to the AOGCC. She believes members must have integrity, a judicious temperament and the ability to listen to and examine all sides. She believes her background as a municipal clerk and with the policy council brings the needed abilities to the commission. MS. MARSHBURN stated, "I'm obviously not a geologist. I'm not an engineer. I don't have the technical background. My background is business administration. I do have the ability, at least conceptually, to understand technical relationships. And probably equally important, I'm not afraid to ask questions for explanation by people who do have the background; that I do." Number 1733 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked what Ms. Marshburn's personal position was on Lease Sale 85. MS. MARSHBURN asked whether that was on the lower peninsula. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said yes. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "The AOGCC is not involved in leasing. I am a resident of Homer. My position was that the lease sale should have gone forward." Number 1749 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked whether there were two, 85 and 85A. MS. MARSHBURN said she believed 85 was the federal lease sale and 85A was on the southern peninsula. "I'm not sure which number is which," she added. MS. MARSHBURN said she had attempted to individually meet as many House Resource Committee and Senate Resource Committee members as possible because she is new to the process. In the course of that, three concerns were brought forward. She explained, "I was asked by one legislator if I had been given a particular direction, a particular agenda, when I was asked to accept the appointment. And the answer is no, I wasn't. No one ever asked me or told me that there was a particular path they wanted me to pursue. If that had been the case, I wouldn't be here." MS. MARSHBURN continued, "The second thing that raised concern was [by] Representative Hodgins, because he is from the peninsula, and one other legislator whose name I can't recall, was I think what Representative Barnes is talking about, which is the fact that I am from Homer. There is a segment of that population which believes that the oil and gas industry cannot develop responsibly and should not develop. And I was asked my opinion on that, or my feelings. And I have seen responsible development. I know that they can. I think mistakes are far too costly for any industry, and not just in terms of dollars." MS. MARSHBURN continued, "And the third concern that has been brought up was brought up by Representative Green and by Senator Leman, both of whom are engineers, and that's the vacancy in the engineer's position on the commission. Chairman Johnston and I will both be glad when that position is filled. There is plenty of work to go around for everyone. I think that all boards, all commissions, including the legislature, function better with their full complement." Number 1840 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Ms. Marshburn to answer her question regarding her personal position on Lease Sales 85 and 85A. MS. MARSHBURN said she thought she had. She stated, "My position is that the lease sale should have gone forward." REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said, "Both." MS. MARSHBURN stated, "I am not as familiar with the federal lease sale. I can speak only to the one that was a state lease sale on the lower peninsula." Number 1861 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how Ms. Marshburn learned about the position. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "The Governor asked me if I would consider appointment to the commission." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated his understanding that she had worked with the current Governor when he was mayor of Anchorage and also had worked on his campaign. MS. MARSHBURN responded, "No, sir, that's not 100 percent correct. I was the borough clerk in Anchorage the first time the Governor ran for public office. I believe it was the first time; it was when he ran for the assembly. I did not work with him when he was mayor. ... My family moved to Homer in the late '70s, and I was living in Homer during his term of office as mayor. Yes, I did work on his campaign." Number 1894 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked, "If you are apparently pretty well- known with the Governor, do you feel there's any possible conflict of trying to remain independent, as you would have to as a member of this commission, from the Governor?" MS. MARSHBURN said no. She said she had received no direction, nor was there discussion of what she is to do, other than doing the best job she can. "No, I don't have a problem with independence," she added. Number 1922 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked about the membership and relationship of the position she was being nominated to fill. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reported that in 1978, the concept changed from being a division within the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to becoming an independent, quasi-judicial commission, with the new name, "Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission." He stated, "And with that, they established a triad similar to the Texas Railroad Commission. There would be one who was an expert in surface and subsurface engineering; one who would be a specialist in geological considerations; and the third need be neither, and would be ... kind of a public member. And the concept, I think, was that you'd have two `technocrats' and one who was kind of looking at the rest of the spectrum." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that they have staff as well. They are charged with conservation of waste, which is producing a reservoir in the most efficient manner so the least amount of hydrocarbons remain, and protecting correlative rights between lease A and lease B, for example. Number 1996 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether this small commission advocates or looks after the interests of the state as well, as far as conservation is concerned. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied, "They shouldn't look after our interests any different than any other land owner." He said by their charge, they would have to look at what is good for all land owners as far as reservoir management and, for example, to prevent problems between leaseholders. "And that is why there is a setback," he said. "There is a requirement that the bottom hole wells be set back 500 feet from the property to prevent correlative rights interference. But we, in their eyes, should be no different than any other land owner -- or actually not land owner, because so few of our subsurface rights go with the surface rights, but as any other leaseholder." Number 2041 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, "You're quoted in the Alaska Journal of Commerce saying that you want to work with the Department of Natural Resources to see how you can cooperate, work together more. How do you describe the responsibilities of the commission towards the Department of Natural Resources?" MS. MARSHBURN replied, "The statutes indicate the Department of Natural Resources is given no status above any other, as Representative Green has described. We have a - I'd like to think - a complementary relationship with the Department of Natural Resources. I know there has been considerable discussion about the relationship in the short time I've been with the commission. I have no true personal experience with that. I know that the commission in the past has been affiliated with Natural Resources, with Commerce and now with the Department of Administration. I think that there is a need to maintain, obviously, the independence of the commission. Any appearance of impropriety on the part of industry needs to be avoided. And so I think that the relationship with the Department of Natural Resources, there's a need to be very sensitive to that. Right now, we share data with them. There is communication back and forth on a staff level. To my knowledge, we have a good working relationship with them." Number 2103 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked, "Is that relationship any different than any relationship with ARCO, BP, Exxon or any other oil or gas operators in Alaska?" MS. MARSHBURN responded, "The AOGCC has a good relationship with industry. One of the things that I have done in the short time I've been with the commission is to spend time with industry, with Revenue, with Resources, and ask about (indisc.--coughing), its necessity, its responsiveness, the product that it delivers, those kinds of things. And industry feels that the AOGCC is necessary, and they are impressed with the way in which it does its business. It takes roughly, I think, five days from application to approval for a permit to drill. It's a very responsive agency, and it has a good relationship with industry." Number 2137 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said he was wondering whether the relationship with the Department of Natural Resources is different from the relation with BP, Exxon or any other producer. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "No, not according to statute. They are to be treated equally." Number 2156 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked how long the vacancy on the AOGCC has existed. MS. MARSHBURN said she could not say for sure, although it was probably about nine months. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted that the vacant position requires a professional engineer, including education and background, but that her position does not. MS. MARSHBURN concurred. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether Ms. Marshburn has experience with petroleum engineering or geology. MS. MARSHBURN said the extent of it is that she took geology courses in college. Number 2196 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, "You know, we're very concerned here about that vacant position and the fact that it hasn't been appointed. Have you had any conversations with the Administration about filling that appointment?" MS. MARSHBURN replied, "I have telephoned; both Chairman Johnston and I have talked to the Governor's boards and commissions office, which is the office that takes care of those sorts of things. They have assured us that they are working on candidates for the position, that this is not something which has been dropped by the wayside. Beyond that -- that's the extent of my information." Number 2218 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated his belief that it has been dropped by the wayside. He expressed concern about not having the well-rounded commission called for in statute. He asked whether Ms. Marshburn had an opinion on why no appointment had been made. MS. MARSHBURN said she honestly did not, nor did she believe it was her place to ask details of the Administration about it. She restated that both she and the chairman will be glad when the position is filled. "All bodies operate better when you've got everybody on board," she said. "We have very good staff engineers, as Representative Green may remember, but obviously the third position is of value." Number 2280 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Ms. Marshburn to explain the difference in degree between her work as a special assistant to the commissioner of the Department of Commerce and Economic Development and this quasi-judicial position. MS. MARSHBURN clarified, "I was not a special assistant to the commissioner of Commerce, though I did assist him in some of those things. My job specifically was the project coordinator for the Oil and Gas Policy Council. This position is a position wherein judgment is exercised. There are specific statutes that govern the parameters of this position and of what this board must do. It needs to interpret those statutes and those regulations. That position did not. That position was a position of facilitation of research, of writing." Number 2316 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN referred to a letter dated March 13, 1997, to Dan Donkle. He asked whether it is unusual for a quasi-judicial officer to sign a document on behalf of another commissioner. MS. MARSHBURN asked for clarification. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, "Well, the letter is signed by you for David Johnston, and signed by you as a commissioner." MS. MARSHBURN replied that Mr. Johnston was out of the office at the time. As he agreed with the letter, she signed it for him. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether Mr. Johnston had reviewed the letter or given her permission to sign. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "I would have to say no, not specifically. My understanding, as I recall, he agreed with that course of action; we had discussed that course of action and that letter. The letter was drafted at his request and as a result of our discussion. That is the only letter that I've signed for him." Number 2369 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Ms. Marshburn's comments that she and Mr. Johnston would be glad when the third seat is filled. He asked whether she believes it would be improper, as a close friend of the Governor's since she had worked on his campaign, to express that open desire to the Governor for a more concentrated effort. He stated, "I think there has been correspondence with the Governor that there are qualified engineers that could be appointed and are willing to serve." MS. MARSHBURN replied, "The last time I talked to the Governor was in December of last year. I haven't seen him since. I have expressed the desire to the boards and commissions office that we will be glad when that position is filled. I would be happy to tell the Governor that, `Yes, we will be happy when the position is filled.'" Number 2414 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN questioned the time lag and suggested it might be good to become proactive as a member of the commission to fill that other seat through a discussion with the Governor. He asked whether Ms. Marshburn believes that would be appropriate. MS. MARSHBURN said yes. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether that meant she would do so. MS. MARSHBURN said yes. Number 2448 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to a "decision regarding jurisdiction, and this is a fairly lengthy hearing that was held between the Department of Natural Resources and the Conservation Commission." He asked whether Ms. Marshburn was familiar with that document. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "Only superficially, Mr. Chairman. It is on my desk to read, but no, I have not read that yet." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "One of the orders in there - it was actually a finding, number 174, which reads in part, and if I can quote: `The DNR argues that voluntary unitization -- unitized state leases are solely within the purview of DNR and that the commission has extremely limited or even nonexistent jurisdiction to address issues ...." [Cut off mid-speech by tape change] TAPE 97-46, SIDE B Number 0006 MS. MARSHBURN stated, "Prefacing my answer with the fact that I have not read the document, I'm not familiar with it and I have a limited amount of time on the commission, the statutes have said that we are to be concerned with waste. So at first glance, I would think that waste would be a consideration within the Prudhoe Bay Unit, would be a consideration of the commission." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "I certainly subscribe to that, too, because they are different and yet the commissioner has actually indicated that in the Prudhoe Bay Unit, the conservation commission has perhaps no jurisdiction, certainly limited jurisdiction, on matters of conservation within the unit. So do I hear you saying that you would take issue with that and argue against that?" REPRESENTATIVE GREEN acknowledged that Ms. Marshburn hadn't read the document, and he pointed out that that was a quote from it. He stated, "And that was one of the major contentions within this hearing, that there were two agencies here exerting jurisdiction. And from the voluntary unitization or the organization of `who owns what amount of what they're going to do as a single lease,' then, that's one thing, and that certainly is DNR; but the actual conservation of the reservoir, as I heard you say, I think, that you feel that that is in the purview of the AOGCC." MS. MARSHBURN responded, "At first glance -- I would have to say yes. Obviously, I would need to know more about what we were talking about, but yes." Number 0068 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether Ms. Marshburn is familiar enough with voluntary or compulsory unitization to know the difference. MS. MARSHBURN replied, "I am superficially familiar with the difference between voluntary and compulsory. I've not been involved at this point in either; we've not gotten into that." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked, "If there was an issue of prevention of waste which would require that a leaseholder over here, as part of this full reservoir, was not willing to operate in the most efficient manner, by unitization there is a - and this is called the hammer - there is a law that allows the conservation commission to force unitization of the substances under the prevention of waste concern. That's compulsory unitization." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued, "Voluntary unitization is when everybody just signs up to the document as they did at Prudhoe Bay. That's a voluntary unit. We have no compulsory unitization in this state. My concern is, knowing and on the basis that you may wonder yet, and you're going to have to check this out, but believe me, you would have the hammer, would you concur with the conservation department or the AOGCC that that should stay within the conservation commission and not, in any way, be misconstrued by DNR that they have that authority?" MS. MARSHBURN asked whether Representative Green was referring to compulsory unitization. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said yes. Number 0130 MS. MARSHBURN responded, "Yes, I think so." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Whether it be a gas cap or an oil rim, it's got to be voluntary if they, as a land owner, and that's all they are, are involved." MS. MARSHBURN replied, "My reading, what reading I have done of their statutes as relates to unitization, and then as of the AOGCC statutes that relate to unitization -- I would have to say yes." Number 0149 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Governor Knowles has repeatedly mentioned that he wants to make Alaska open and ready for business and wants to cooperate with the oil and gas industry. And yet we know that you helped on the Governor's election and that you obviously are a friend, or at least more than a casual acquaintance." He expressed concern that as a member of the AOGCC, she has "police power" and does not have the right to say this will be done in cooperation to make things better for the oil industry. He stated, "You have the objective and the responsibility to act as a policeman of that industry. Do you see any conflict now?" MS. MARSHBURN said no. She advised members that the Governor's campaign is not the only campaign she worked on. "And obviously I have friends in all walks of life," she said. "I am not beholden in any way to the Governor or to anyone else whose campaign I worked on. I accepted and am interested in this appointment because I think I can do the job, and I think I can do a good job, and that I bring value to this commission. I don't see any conflict." Number 0218 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked, "This letter that you signed, what was conservation order number 391?" MS. MARSHBURN replied, "With Dan Donkle; this was the Dan Donkle conservation order." She said she would have to look at it; it was an order the commission signed after holding a hearing with Mr. Donkle, who had requested unitization into the North Cook Inlet Unit. There was a procedural question, and that was whether to proceed with hearing the case on the merits. "And the commission determined that that was not the case," she said. Ms. Marshburn advised members that it is up for rehearing, and she expressed reluctance to discuss it further. Number 0257 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said Commissioner Johnston had told legislators, in response to direct questions, that he neither saw that letter nor gave Ms. Marshburn permission to sign it. He asked whether she believes it is appropriate to be signing her name on letters he has not seen or given her permission to sign. MS. MARSHBURN said no. She said Commissioner Johnston had discussed the letter and that he had requested that it be drafted. "It was a procedural matter," she said. "I signed the letter; it would appear that that is a mistake. It has not been brought to my attention by Commissioner Johnston or by anyone else at the commission office. This is the first time that it has been brought up. But obviously no, that's not the case. That's the only time and the only reason that I signed anything for him." Number 0297 REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA said, "I don't think that we should go by hearsay of what was said between members," she said. Referring to Mr. Johnston, she stated, "If he had a problem with that, then the letter should have been in front of us today." Number 0326 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE commented on the awesome responsibility of the appointees. Number 0344 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON advised the committee that in accordance with AS 39.05.080, the committee had reviewed the qualifications of all the nominees and recommended that the appointments be forwarded to a joint session for consideration. He emphasized that the forwarding and members' signatures did not reflect any intent to vote for or against these individuals in further confirmation sessions. ADJOURNMENT CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee meeting at 2:42 p.m.