HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE February 6, 1995 8:08 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chairman Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman Representative Alan Austerman Representative Pete Kott MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Ramona Barnes Representative John Davies Representative Eileen MacLean Representative Irene Nicholia COMMITTEE CALENDAR HB 121"An Act relating to the timber resources within the state." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE HB 113"An Act relating to reports by fishing vessels that are not registered under the laws of the state." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITNESS REGISTER SARA HANNAN, Executive Director Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151 Juneau, AK 99802 Phone: 463-3366 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 121 JACK PHELPS, Aide Representative Bill Williams State Capitol, Room 128 Juneau, AK 99801 Phone: 465-3424 POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor HB 121 PETER ECKLUND, Aide Representative Bill Williams State Capitol, Room 128 Juneau, AK 99801 Phone: 465-3424 POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor HB 113 GERON BRUCE, Representative Alaska Department of Fish and Game P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, AK 99811 Phone: 465-4100 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 and answered questions PREVIOUS ACTION  BILL: HB 121 SHORT TITLE: SALVAGE TIMBER SALES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS, Therriault, Ogan, Grussendorf, Toohey, Mulder, Rokeberg, Kelly, Kott, Green, G.Davis, Foster, Kohring JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/25/95 132 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/25/95 132 (H) RES 01/26/95 148 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KELLY, KOTT 01/30/95 180 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN, G.DAVIS, FOSTER 02/03/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124 02/03/95 242 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING 02/06/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124  BILL: HB 113 SHORT TITLE: REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS,Grussendorf,Kubina,Mackie JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/23/95 116 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/23/95 117 (H) FSH, RES 01/25/95 136 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA 01/26/95 148 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MACKIE 01/30/95 179 (H) FSH WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE, RULE 23 02/01/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 02/03/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124 02/03/95 231 (H) FSH RPT 4DP 1NR 02/03/95 231 (H) DP: G.DAVIS, MOSES, ELTON, OGAN 02/03/95 231 (H) NR: AUSTERMAN 02/03/95 232 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G) 2/3/95 02/06/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-10, SIDE A Number 000 The House Resources Committee was called to order by Co-Chairman Williams at 8:08 a.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Williams, Green, Ogan, Austerman and Kott. Members absent were Representatives Barnes, Davies, MacLean and Nicholia. HRES - 02/06/95 HB 121 - SALVAGE TIMBER SALES SARA HANNAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY, stated she is a property owner in Cooper Landing and over the past 30 years has seen the devastation the spruce bark beetle brings to forests. As a property owner, she has concerns about fire and timber damage and how the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) has managed the dying timber in Southcentral Alaska. MS. HANNAN stressed there are two things HB 121 does not do which it needs to do. She stated HB 121 needs to address salvage timber that is dead or dying trees. She noted the intention of HB 121 is to address the dead and dying timber in Southcentral and Northern Alaska but HB 121 does not limit it to that. HB 121, as written, opens up any negotiated sale to 25 years. She pointed out if the state waits 25 years to address the beetle problem in Southcentral Alaska, the next cycle of beetle kill will have already begun. Beetles are not brought on by current suppression techniques but rather are brought on as a natural cycle in a normal forest of uniform age. She added the spruce bark beetle thrives in a forest that has a uniform age and the beetle corridor follows the road corridor, which is an area which was harvested approximately seven years ago. MS. HANNAN said it is important now to address what the ongoing problem is from a legislative perspective. She stated she was outraged to hear DNR say it does have a tool to manage harvesting if the harvesting could happen within 366 days but there was not a tool available if the harvest was going to take 367 days, and that a five year sale is too long to negotiate, and a one year sale is too short. She felt it was an outrageous problem but is not a statutory problem. She said the current management available to DNR allows for them, the regional managers, the borough, and private land owners to negotiate sales to harvest spruce bark beetle kill, fire threatened timber anywhere in the state which needs harvesting. MS. HANNAN noted the morning's Anchorage Daily News talked about habitat concerns on the Kenai. She said the area wildlife biologist for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) said the current timber sale harvest rates on the Kenai Peninsula are going to, in the next couple of years, provide a crisis in habitat management for big game. She wondered if a situation is going to be created where the bear corridor is going to be driven back into the resident population because the only trees left standing are those on private property. She urged committee members to look cautiously at the future of a complicated ecosystem and not to respond to people's concerns when a timber company has not been able to negotiate a timber sale they desire. She pointed out there are a lot of timber harvesters who are currently cutting trees on Southcentral Peninsula where the beetle infestation is the biggest. She stressed it is not necessary for a statutory change to accomplish the intent of HB 121 which is to salvage dead and dying trees. Number 068 JACK PHELPS, AIDE, REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, PRIME SPONSOR, stated HB 121 addresses a problem in the state and specifically allows the state to begin the public process of examining timber sales, under the circumstances described, more quickly than it currently can. Currently, the state is required to list those timber sales in two five-year schedules, meaning there is a minimum of 24 months of scheduling before the sales can begin. He felt it was important for the committee to note that HB 121 does not set aside any of the requirements of the Forest Practices Act (FPA) in terms of how the timber is harvested. He said it was also important for the committee to note that HB 121 does not set aside any public comments. He pointed out that HB 121 does require a time for both agency and municipal comment, as well as public comment before the state goes forward. MR. PHELPS explained the second section of HB 121 adds an additional element to those situations in which the state can negotiate a sale. He noted that these negotiated sales are currently in statute and require all three of the elements listed on page 2, lines 2-4, before a salvage sale can go forward. He stated what HB 121 adds to that requirement is the timber which is being referred to as salvageable. He pointed out the provisions of HB 121 are in harmony with current regulations that indicate when there is timber endangered by insects or disease epidemics, it should be harvested quickly REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT stated based on testimony he heard, there are a lot of positives to be gained by HB 121. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT made a MOTION to MOVE HB 121 out of committee with individual recommendations. CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. HRES - 02/06/95 Number 121 HB 113 - REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS PETER ECKLUND, AIDE, REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, PRIME SPONSOR, stated HB 113 will give the Board of Fish the authority to adopt regulations concerning foreign fishing vessels transiting or in state waters. He said HB 113 would allow the board to require foreign fishing vessels to report to the ADF&G the quantity, species, and origin of fish on board. MR. ECKLUND explained HB 113 will assist the ADF&G in their effort to collect data on the state's border fisheries. HB 113 could provide ADF&G with additional in-season management data, providing the state with some significant and timely information that was previously unavailable to the state's fisheries managers. He said HB 113 will also help protect the state's interest by deterring potential illegal fishing in the state's waters. He noted that section two of HB 113 directs the Board of Fish to consider for adoption, before May 1996, the provisions of HB 113 concerning foreign fishing vessels present in or transiting the waters of Southeast Alaska. He urged the committee to support HB 113. MR. ECKLUND indicated that when HB 113 was heard in the Fisheries Committee, Representative Ogan asked about a fiscal impact on the Department of Public Safety. Mr. Ecklund contacted that department and was told verbally that the department would have a zero fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN wondered, in light of the zero fiscal notes, if there will be a method of getting cooperation from the foreign vessels. MR. ECKLUND responded HB 113 will enable the Board of Fish to set up requirements and regulations regarding Canadian or foreign fishing vessels reporting origin, species, and quantity on board. He explained there has been a dramatic increase in Canadian trawlers in the Dixon Entrance, in southern Southeast Alaska. These trawlers fish during the day, come into Alaska waters and anchor up at night, and then go back to Canadian waters during the day. He stated ADF&G, the Department of Public Safety and other departments affected will be involved in writing the regulations, if the Board of Fish decides to pursue this area. Number 172 GERON BRUCE, REPRESENTATIVE, ADF&G, stated ADF&G would be involved in adopting the regulations which HB 113 would enable. He said most likely, ADF&G would have minimal activity and would probably just set up a record-a-phone and the regulations would require the Canadian or foreign vessels who are coming into the state's waters to anchor, report in and have their catches enumerated on a recorded message. He stated in regard to enforcement, ADF&G does have some current activity associated with the state's fisheries in the Dixon Entrance area as does the Department of Public Safety. He explained as resources permitted, they could perform spot checks in the course of their routine operations. REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked if ADF&G supports HB 113. MR. BRUCE said ADF&G supports HB 113 and would attempt to put a program in place if the Board of Fisheries so directed. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there were any international implications with HB 113. MR. BRUCE responded the department is working intensely with the Canadian government within the Pacific Salmon Commission arena, which is the body that implements the Pacific Salmon Treaty. In addition, George Utermohle, legislative attorney, has prepared a legal opinion on the legality of HB 113 which says as long as the provision is directed at protecting the state's resources, he believes it would be a legal exercise of state authority. Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if the state is already regulating Canadian vessels from the state's perspective, through another which would give some precedence. MR. BRUCE replied in regard to fisheries he did not believe the state is. He said the area being discussed (Dixon Entrance) is a unique situation which was brought about because the boundary area is disputed and Canadians are fishing closer to Alaska than they are to their own home port. He stated the state does not allow fishing by foreign vessels in Alaska's waters and therefore are not regulating them. MR. ECKLUND said according to the drafting attorney, as long as the state enacts the legislation primarily to protect the state's interest by deterring potential illegal fishing in the state's waters, the attorney believes that simply asking Canadian or foreign fishing vessels to report the amount and species of fish they have on board is not much of a hindrance and is within the state's right. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN made a MOTION to place HB 113 before the committee. CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN questioned if HB 113 would impact other areas in the state. MR. ECKLUND replied HB 113 only allows the Board of Fish to set up requirements regionally. If the board chose to set up requirements for only southern Southeast Alaska, they can do that. He said HB 113 does not bind the board to set up regulations statewide. Number 267 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if HB 113 passes, what would be the penalty if a commercial foreign vessel does not report in. MR. BRUCE replied it would be a misdemeanor under Title 16. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT felt the penalty should be stiffer. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT made a MOTION to MOVE HB 113 out of committee with individual recommendations. CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to the motion. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee will meet Wednesday, February 8 at 8:00 a.m. to hear HB 102. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the House Resources Committee, Co-Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting at 8:30 a.m.