HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE March 10, 1993 8:00 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Bill Williams, Chairman Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman Representative Con Bunde Representative Pat Carney Representative John Davies Representative Joe Green Representative Jeannette James Representative Eldon Mulder Representative David Finkelstein MEMBERS ABSENT None COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmations to Board of Game: Roger Huntington Ernie Polley Anne Ruggles Jack Didrickson WITNESS REGISTER Anne Ruggles P.O. Box 82950 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708 Phone: 474-7741 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to her nomination to the Board of Game. Jack C. Didrickson P.O. Box 712 Palmer, Alaska 99645 Phone: 745-3178 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to his appointment to the Board of Game. Ernie Polley 634 W. 12th Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 Phone: 586-1437 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to his appointment to the Board of Game. Ben Ellis Kenai River Sport Fishermen, Inc. Box 1228 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Phone: 262-8588 Position Statement: Opposed Deborah Lyons' appointment to Board of Fisheries. Roger Huntington P.O. Box 86 Galena, Alaska 99741 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to his appointment to the Board of Game. Hugh Doogan 359 Slater St. Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Phone: 456-1869 Position Statement: Supported Susan Entsminger's appointment to Board of Game. David Vandenberg 210 Driveway Street Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Phone: 452-5021 Position Statement: Supported Anne Ruggles' appointment to the Board of Game. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-27, SIDE A Number 000 The House Resources Committee was called to order by Chairman Bill Williams at 8:14 a.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde, Carney, Davies, Green, James, and Mulder. Absent at the call was Representative Finkelstein. CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS announced the meeting was being held by teleconference with sites in Fairbanks, Kenai, Soldotna, Barrow and Anchorage. The subject of the meeting, he explained, was to consider the confirmation of four appointments to the Board of Game. He said appointees would have the chance to testify and respond to questions first, and then public testimony would be taken if time allowed. He added no action would be taken at the meeting, and the confirmation decisions would be held until legal questions surrounding the seat that Ernie Polley was appointed to are addressed. Number 084 ANNE RUGGLES, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, described for the committee her background in wildlife biology as a researcher and educator. Number 118 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN referred to Ms. Ruggles' term on the Alaska Wolf Management Team, and asked her to comment on her background as a reviewer and her stand on predator control. MS. RUGGLES explained that in her role as reviewer in a variety of projects, she analyzed information and offered her opinion and recommendation on wildlife management proposals. Number 156 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Ruggles to describe her views on predator control in Alaska. MS. RUGGLES did not have a stand on one side or the other in the controversy, and commented that predator control can be a useful tool in some circumstances. Each instance, she said, has to be reviewed on its own merits after careful review of ecological restraints as well as cultural and human value goals. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked Ms. Ruggles if she had played a role in the development of Alaska's wolf management plan, and whether she believed intensive game management was appropriate in each of the three areas. MS. RUGGLES had a role in devising the wolf management plan as a member of the Wolf Management Planning Team. She said the team's consensus report was used as a basis for the draft wolf management plan. She then participated as a member of the public at public meetings, and testified at the Board of Game meeting in November, 1992, during which the plan was considered. She also participated on the committee of the whole which carefully scrutinized the plan. Number 200 MS. RUGGLES described the three control plans, and added those plans were a small part of what the board did in November, 1992. She prefaced her description by stating that the Wolf Management Planning Team considered education to be very important in relation to decisions, but education was lacking. She felt education was important because the wolf management issue was so contentious. Number 219 MS. RUGGLES explained that the team felt unless the state put together a long-term education and information program that addressed both Alaska and people outside the state, the issue could never be resolved. Because of budget constraints, such a program was not incorporated, she added, although it is now beginning to get underway. Because of the lack of information to the public, she was not surprised by the reaction to the plan, she added. MS. RUGGLES went on to address the three specific wolf management areas. First, she described Game Management Unit 20A, the Delta Caribou herd, where she felt there was a real need to protect the herd for the use of hunters. She said that area has been consistently hunted by people from the Fairbanks area. She hesitated to expand the plan to include moose. Regarding Unit 20E, the Forty Mile, she said there was a real conservation need behind the plan, which was broadly spread out to include a large area, and was not well-defined. The Forty Mile, she said, was the best chance to control game and accomplish the plan's goals. Number 300 MS. RUGGLES then addressed Game Management Unit 13, which she did not believe was a good idea. Originally, information showed the caribou herd was reaching capacity. It was also a case of regulation versus reduction of wolf populations. Another problem she described with the plan was that the control activity was going to be done by the public and not by the state. This created a perception problem, she said, because people are more ready to accept game control if it is done by state professionals rather than the public. She said four recommendations were made, including the use of helicopters manned by state personnel. An error in the printing of the plan left out that recommendation, she explained. Number 355 VICE CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on whether she would be able and willing to commit to the level of time required for service on the Board of Game. MS. RUGGLES affirmed she had a flexible schedule that she would be able to adjust for the time required for service on the board. Number 380 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to share her personal recommendations regarding the wolf plan, and whether or not she had supported the final product. MS. RUGGLES answered that she had no problem with the final report, and reiterated it had been a consensus report, published only after every member of the team agreed to its contents. She pointed out there were some things lacking from the report for the reason that consensus had not been reached. She said the final report considered the needs of all Alaskans, and was not biased toward any interest or consumption group. She added all needs were seen as legitimate and the working group tried to accommodate all those needs. There was also, she commented, a recognition that they needed to get serious about education. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE questioned whether it was ever possible to accommodate both the animal rights' interests and hunters. MS. RUGGLES said it was impossible to accommodate extremists on either side. For the most part, she said, those are the people who participate in public discussion, and not the larger number of people who are more toward the middle of the extremes. Number 428 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on the principle of sustained yield. MS. RUGGLES commented that Alaska has relatively undisturbed wildlife, but also relatively low productivity because of its location in a northern system. With short summers and cold soil, most of the nutrients are tied up in dead organic matter. She felt the state had done a good job of managing its resources on a sustained yield basis. She said the unique ecosystem requires a careful approach. The primary question for the state, she explained, would be what kind of sustained yield to achieve. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that people play a role as part of the ecosystem, so we should attempt to manage for sustained yield. MS. RUGGLES agreed, and noted with increasing numbers of people and their demands on the ecosystem, it would get trickier. She agreed sports hunting is a legitimate use of the resource, and added that non-hunting uses are also legitimate. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE raised the issue of the "land and shoot" policy of game management, and asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on the most efficient and humane ways to approach such management policies. MS. RUGGLES replied that no matter how the issue was approached, there would be considerable public outcry from within Alaska and from outside the state. She referred to the November, 1992 wolf management decision, and said opposition to land and shoot policies was strong from both hunters and non-hunters. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on the tourism boycott which resulted from that Board of Game decision. MS. RUGGLES replied that people have the right to say or do whatever they want, and were not forced into participating in the boycott. She noted however, that the groups participating in the boycott did not have access to the right information, which goes back, she said, to her previous comments on the need for education and information to the public. Number 522 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would hear from the next appointee to the Board of Game, Jack Didrickson. He explained the situation behind Mr. Didrickson's appointment. After another appointee had been rejected by the legislature in 1992, Governor Hickel appointed Mr. Didrickson in May, 1992, but withdrew his name in January, 1993, before confirmation by the legislature. Ernie Polley was nominated to serve in the seat to which Mr. Didrickson had previously been appointed. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted an opinion from the Legislative Legal Services' attorney stated the Governor's action was not legal because Mr. Didrickson had not been removed for cause. He noted the committee would need to decide whether to put the name of Mr. Didrickson and/or Mr. Polley on the floor for confirmation by the House. Number 545 JACK DIDRICKSON, BOARD OF GAME APPOINTEE, described his background for the committee. He arrived in Alaska in 1959 and worked for the Department of Fish and Game as a game biologist from that time until 1987. Since his retirement from the department, he has worked as a consultant to the Alaska Railroad on moose problems. Number 563 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Didrickson to describe his stand on predator control, and specifically whether he would favor reducing the wolf population to allow more hunting. Number 570 MR. DIDRICKSON responded that it is all right to take wolves in some situations where they depress the population of prey. Regarding the recent boycott over the Board of Game decisions on wolf hunting, Mr. Didrickson felt the problem was the public's lack of understanding of the issues. He added the board has the right to ensure the public is able to use animals for both consumptive and non-consumptive purposes. Number 591 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER commented on the lack of information or misinformation to the public, and asked Mr. Didrickson how he felt the dissemination of information could be improved. Number 605 MR. DIDRICKSON answered that the problem is money, and that information officers cost a lot of money. He noted there had been many problems over the years caused by a lack of information and disinformation caused by reporters giving partial or erroneous information. He mentioned in reaction to the wolf control decisions of the board, he had received telephone calls at home, and spent over an hour explaining the board's decision to a man from Florida who had received erroneous information from the media. Regarding a solution to the problem, Mr. Didrickson suggested the answer may lie with the legislature, who could provide adequate money to the Department of Fish and Game to provide adequate information to the public. Number 638 VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented on the perception of Alaska held by people outside of the state, and suggested a forum be established to explain to the public the management responsibilities of the state. He then addressed the legal question surrounding Mr. Didrickson's appointment to the Board. He asked Mr. Didrickson to comment on why he should be confirmed. MR. DIDRICKSON explained he had never been told the cause for his name being withdrawn from nomination, and his refusal to step aside was based on principle. He mentioned at the time the governor appointed him in 1992, he was asked his reasons for wanting to serve on the Board of Game, and told the Governor then that serving the people of Alaska was his primary mission. Number 684 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the wolf control controversy, and asked what effect it would have on future controversial decisions. TAPE 93-27, SIDE B Number 000 MR. DIDRICKSON replied that it would depend on the circumstances. The biological information that comes in, he said, would be the basis for the Board's decision. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked about Mr. Didrickson's personal decisions on the board, and the role played by science versus politics. Number 019 MR. DIDRICKSON answered that the Board of Game has many factors to take into consideration, but added the only oath the board members took was to the constitution of the state. He said that oath and the scientific information received from the Department of Fish and Game would be the basis for his personal decisions. Number 045 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Didrickson to comment on each of the three predator control areas previously discussed by Ms. Ruggles. MR. DIDRICKSON first commented on the Forty Mile herd, and said the decision was justified. His only problem with that, he said, was that the animals belong to the people, but it proved impossible to issue aerial permits because of the terrain. Regarding Unit 20A, he said that herd is becoming depressed in an area with a large human population. He said the board, and he personally, felt it was worth saving. Predators were taking down the population 15-20% per year, he explained. MR. DIDRICKSON then addressed unit 13E, and said land and shoot permits had been issued there over the past two years. This policy had handled the problem fairly well, except that other predator problems were diminishing prey populations as well. Grizzly bears in particular posed a problem that had not yet been addressed, he added. The governor's elimination of the aerial predator control, he suggested, may alter the balance where populations were level, he said. Number 124 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked whether the situation in the last area described was one to maintain an existing control program. MR. DIDRICKSON replied in the affirmative. Number 134 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would next hear from Ernie Polley, who would serve out the remaining nine months of the term to which he was appointed, if confirmed. Number 142 ERNIE POLLEY, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, commented on the question of the volatile situation with Alaska's wildlife management being affected by perceptions and actions of people outside the state. He suggested tourism interests become involved in helping to disseminate information on wildlife resource management. Regarding his interest in serving on the board, Mr. Polley remarked on his readiness to get back into public service, and his abiding interest in resource management in Alaska. Number 194 VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented on the representation of Southeast Alaska on the Board of Game. He felt it was important for the board to have regional and Native representation. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Polley's feelings on the balance between competing interests in managing the state's game resources. MR. POLLEY had attended the Wolf Summit held in Fairbanks in January, 1993, believes in predator control, and described it as part of reaching a balance of the whole system. He said expertise and sound biological professional judgement are important. He noted the increasing pressures in managing and allocating the resources for the broadest cross-section. The competition, he said, is not just in quantitative terms, but also philosophically. Number 267 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS opened the meeting to public testimony. BEN ELLIS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF KENAI RIVER SPORT FISHING, INC., testified by teleconference from Kenai in opposition to the confirmation of Deborah Lyons to the Board of Fisheries. He called her reappointment a political move, and expressed concern with her comments on sport fishing. He was dissatisfied with Ms. Lyons' response to a question during a prior confirmation hearing regarding reductions on sport fishing on Kenai River reds. Number 348 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced Board of Game appointee Roger Huntington was available to testify by teleconference from Hoonah. He said Mr. Huntington had been reappointed to his second term. Number 368 ROGER HUNTINGTON, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, testified by teleconference from Hoonah, and explained he had originally been appointed to fill the seat of his father, who had resigned from the board. He felt he could contribute to the benefit of the resources, given his background and experience. Number 390 VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Huntington whether he was prepared and able to give the Board of Game the amount of time and attention demanded. MR. HUNTINGTON was prepared to make that commitment. Number 421 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Huntington to comment on the issues of intensive game management, and his view on when and where such techniques were appropriate. He also raised the question of balancing the interests of consumptive and non-consumptive users of wildlife resources. Number 435 MR. HUNTINGTON responded by mentioning HB 41 and SB 77, and said the bills are viable tools to meet the needs of both consumptive and non-consumptive users of the resources. He noted increasing pressure on resources with the encroachment of human populations. The intensive management bill, he said, could benefit the Board of Game. Number 475 HUGH DOOGAN testified by teleconference from Fairbanks in support of the confirmation of Susan Entsminger to the Board of Game. He referred to the focus on wolf control and commented that the board is involved in more broad habitat management. He suggested the committee ask appointees whether they would represent all the people of Alaska. Number 500 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS replied that the committee had been asking appointees that question. Number 510 DAVID VANDENBERG, NORTHERN ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL CENTER, testified by teleconference from Fairbanks in support of Anne Ruggles' appointment to the Board of Game. He said she has shown open-mindedness to the truth, has studied the issues, is obsessed with education, and would not be a party-line vote on the Board of Game, but would instead vote as an objective scientist. Number 525 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS concluded public testimony by teleconference. ANNOUNCEMENTS CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would meet next on Friday, March 12, at 8:00 a.m., to hear a briefing by the Water and Wastewater Works Advisory Board, followed by consideration of HB 201. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the House Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting at 9:31 a.m.