ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE  LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL    FEBRUARY 25, 2021  2:00 PM    VIA TELECONFERENCE    MEMBERS PRESENT  Representative Sara Hannan, Chair  Senator Lora Reinbold, Vice Chair  Representative Matt Claman  Representative Bryce Edgmon  Representative Kevin McCabe  Representative Louise Stutes  Representative Cathy Tilton  Representative Chris Tuck  Senator Click Bishop  Senator Shelley Hughes (alternate)  Senator Peter Micciche  Senator Mike Shower  Senator Bert Stedman  Senator Gary Stevens      MEMBERS ABSENT  Senator Lyman Hoffman      OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT      AGENDA  COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION  COMMITTEE POLICIES  COMMITTEE BUSINESS    SPEAKER REGISTER  Jessica Geary, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs  Agency (LAA)  Megan Wallace, Director of Legal Services, LAA      2:02:35 PM    I. CALL TO ORDER    SPEAKER STUTES called the Legislative Council meeting to  order at 2:02 pm. Present at the call were:  Representatives Claman, Edgmon, Hannan, McCabe, Stutes,  Tilton, Tuck; Senators Bishop, Micciche, Hughes  (alternate), Shower, Stedman, Stevens, Reinbold.    Senator Hoffman was absent.    13 members present.      II. COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION    A. Election of the Chair    2:03:58 PM  REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON nominated and elected  Representative Sara Hannan as the Chair of Legislative  Council and asked for unanimous consent and that  nominations be closed.    SPEAKER STUTES said without objection Representative  Hannan is the Chair and turned the gavel over to her.    B. Election of the Vice Chair    2:04:31 PM  SENATOR STEVENS nominated and elected Senator Lora  Reinbold as the Vice Chair of Legislative Council and  asked for unanimous consent and that nominations be  closed.    CHAIR HANNAN said hearing no objection, Senator Reinbold  is the Vice Chair.      III. COMMITTEE POLICIES    A. Quorum and Voting Requirements    CHAIR HANNAN said it is a long-standing policy of the  Council to have a requirement of eight members for a  quorum and eight members to approve a motion. Because  there are seven members of the House and seven members of  the Senate, this standard ensures at least one member of  the other body approves a motion or satisfies a quorum to  do the Council's business. Chair Hannan continued that  unless there is objection, she would like to maintain the  existing policy. Hearing no objection, that policy is  approved.      IV. COMMITTEE BUSINESS    A. Motion to authorize Chair to give direction to Legal  Services    2:05:41 PM  SENATOR REINBOLD moved that Legislative Council authorize  the Chair to give direction to Legal Services in any  pending legal matters.    There was an objection [speaker did not identify  themselves].    CHAIR HANNAN noted the objection and asked Megan Wallace,  Director of Legal Services to please speak to the motion  and take questions.    MEGAN WALLACE, Legal Services Director, explained that as  members are aware there are several pending lawsuits that  Legislative Council previously authorized. Those include  pending appeals in the Alaska Supreme Court on issues  related to the forward funding of education and the  Governor's appointment and Legislative confirmation of  the Governor's appointees. This pending motion will be  consistent with the motions that authorize those lawsuits  which allow for the Chair to give direction to Legal  Services as to how to proceed with those pending legal  matters. Ms. Wallace said she is available for questions.    REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked, this motion would not allow  the Legislative Council Chair to make a decision to bring  a lawsuit, that is left with Legislative Council, this  just means that on the matters that have come up during  the course of the lawsuit, the Legislative Legal Director  can contact the Legislative Council Chair who can give  directions following through on the earlier decision to  bring the lawsuit?    MEGAN WALLACE replied that is correct. The statutory  authority to bring a lawsuit by Legislative Council  requires the consent of the Council, not just the Chair.    REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN thanked Ms. Wallace.    REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if there was an objection to  the motion.    CHAIR HANNAN replied yes, there was an objection for  purposes of discussion.    REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said he had an objection, not just  for purposes of discussion and asked to speak to his  objection.    CHAIR HANNAN asked Representative McCabe to please speak  to his objection.    REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE thanked the Chair and said he  appreciated the opportunity to speak. He believed in  certain legal matters such this, the sense of Legislative  Council needs to be given to the Chair before the Chair  is allowed to make decisions such as this one on the  expedited hearing and the pleadings before Ms. Wallace at  this time. He said he would like to amend that motion to  say, "In certain circumstances, the Legislative Council  Chair can be given carte blanche to give direction to  Megan Wallace, but the Council would have to determine  what those circumstances were." This seems to be a very  big pleading and a big decision, too big to rest on the  shoulders of just the Chair with no discussion from the  Council. He said it is divisive and it is important to  the State that the correct decision is made as a Council.  Thank you.    CHAIR HANNAN said she did not hear that stated as a  motion so would rule Representative McCabe's statement is  not a motion to take action on. She asked if there were  other members who would like to speak to the objection  and the motion.    SENATOR REINBOLD said she only had fifteen minutes, but  wanted to say no one discussed this ahead of time, so she  was not sure the scope of what this entails or how much  authority this gives the Chair and thought it should be  discussed. She is very supportive of moving forward on  the Governor's appointees, but does not want to give  blanket authority to the Chair, especially as the Vice  Chair because she represents the Senate and there are a  lot of Senators online. She said she did not know how  much leeway this gives the Chair.    CHAIR HANNAN asked Senator Stevens, outgoing Council Chair,  or Megan Wallace to speak to the parameters that this  motion grants the Chair.    SENATOR STEVENS said he would like to hear what Ms. Wallace  has to say but did want to comment. He said this is not an  unusual thing Council is doing and, as Ms. Wallace said  before, this is only pending litigation approved during the  last session by that Legislative Council. This does not  give carte blanche approval for the Chair to have lawsuits.  If a new lawsuit were to occur during session, it would  have to be approved by both the House and the Senate, but  if it were to occur during the interim, it would have to be  approved by the entire Legislative Council.    He said he is certain that our Chair will do as previous  Chairs have done and ensure Legislative Council is fully  aware of what is going on and not take independent action  without tacit approval of the Council. He sees no reason  why this is necessary as the business of the State must be  run, sometimes quickly. He knows that is the case and often  when he was Chair had to work with Ms. Wallace on very  short notice to get things done, so he does not think it  will be abused and would not be comfortable with an  amendment that would change this motion.    SENATOR REINBOLD said she would like, with respect, to have  all members say this is not carte blanche, she just wants  the intent. She said she is not going to vote against this,  however wants the intent to be clear.    CHAIR HANNAN asked if there were other members of the  Committee who would like to address the motion.    SENATOR HUGHES asked Ms. Wallace, or perhaps Senator  Stevens, if any direction that the Chair would give would  incur any additional cost, and whether any direction that  the Chair could give would make a policy call without the  agreement of the Council.    SENATOR STEVENS said he did not believe there would be any  policy issues or change of policy established by  Legislative Council or by the House and the Senate during  session. Additional costs are entirely possible as happens  in lawsuits sometimes. When he was Council Chair several  years ago, there was a large lawsuit against the owners of  the downtown building in Anchorage which took a lot of  effort. Legislative attorneys, himself, his staff were  involved often in Anchorage on long, involved issues and in  that case, the Chair needs the support of the Council to  accomplish their goals. He could not answer the issue about  costs, but sometimes there may be additional costs by  giving this authority to the Chair, but there would be no  change in the policy of the Council.    CHAIR HANNAN asked Senator Hughes if that answered her  question or if she would like to hear from Megan Wallace as  well.    SENATOR HUGHES asked to please hear from Ms. Wallace.    MS. WALLACE said she will largely echo the statements made  by Senator Stevens. With respect to the policy decisions,  the policy decision to pursue the lawsuit was already made  by a previous Legislative Council and any effort that moves  forward is likely to be consistent with the positions taken  by the Legislature already. With respect to cost, the  matters that are currently pending have been handled  entirely in-house by herself and members of her team and if  any costs have been incurred, they have been modest and  within the Legal Services approved budget. At this time,  she does not expect there to be any additional cost  associated with the ongoing appeal.    SENATOR STEVENS said he appreciates what Ms. Wallace said,  but to underline, the Chair has a limit of $35,000, unless  approved by Council. That is a lot of money but can be  spent quickly in lawsuits. There is a limit on any Chair of  a $35,000 obligation.    REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said this meeting was scheduled so  tightly because it is focused on one underlying motion and  the fact that the judge wants a response from the  Legislative Council today. We have a new Legislative  Council that has recently been empaneled, not the old  Legislative Council, and he does not believe we have had  enough time to meet for the Chair to get a sense of what  the Legislative Council actually wants. While he  appreciates all the comments, he believes that this  particular motion was put forth to give the Chair the  ability to direct Ms. Wallace to respond to this pleading  and the judge's requirement that she have a response in by  this afternoon and he believes that doing so without the  sense of the Council is incorrect. He appreciates the  opportunity to speak on that.    CHAIR HANNAN asked Ms. Wallace to clarify the timeframe and  the motion that she has been asked by the court to respond  to.    MS. WALLACE replied that the motion we have been speaking  about is that the Governor's Office has filed an appeal  stemming from the decision issued by Judge Pallenberg last  week in Juneau Superior Court and has filed an emergency  motion seeking expedited consideration from the Supreme  Court on that appeal and asking for that decision from the  Supreme Court to be rendered by April 12, 2021. We received  notice yesterday that the court was requesting our response  by close of business February 25, 2021. Without knowing  whether or not the committee would have the ability to hold  a meeting so expeditiously, we did seek relief from the  court and request some additional time to respond to that  motion. We just recently received confirmation that the  court has granted that request, but that request for an  extension of time was not approved until after this meeting  had been scheduled.    CHAIR HANNAN asked if there were other questions.    REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN commented that the motion Ms. Wallace  earlier indicatedthere are actually two pending appeals  before the Supreme Court: one involving education forward  funding, that was one of the matters she described, and the  other involving the appointments topic. He wanted to echo  the comments made earlier by Senator Stevens to the effect  that the kinds of questions that will be asked for the  Legislative Council Chair are consistent with past practice  of the Legislature and that the decision to bring the  lawsuit has already been made. He does not think this is  just one motion, this is actually allowing us to continue  doing business when we have matters before the court, such  as has been the Legislature's practice for many years.    SENATOR SHOWER apologized for missing approximately the  first six minutes of this meeting and the motion. He asked  to please get a very brief synopsis of the motion, as he  has only heard the debate since.    CHAIR HANNAN said the motion was, "I move that the  Legislative Council authorize the Chair to give direction  to Legal Services in any pending legal matters."    SENATOR SHOWER thanked the Chair.    REPRESENTATIVE TUCK said this is basically standard  operating procedure, not anything new. We granted these  powers once the decision was made to move forward on a  legal case, anything other than that would just slow the  process down. That is one thing that gives government a bad  name when we do not run as efficient as we should. He is in  total support with the original motion.    SENATOR SHOWER said his question pertains to a physical  quorum and so many people being on the phone. Our  understanding is that we were not able to pass a motion or  vote if we were not present. He would like to know from  Legislative Legal, unless there is a quorum physically  present, are we allowed to make these motions? We had some  confusion with that earlier today about committees with so  many people missing.    MS. WALLACE responded that yes, the Legislative Council can  operate remotely with telephonic participation including  voting to approve certain matters. The difference between  Legislative Council motions for approval and committees  which pass out a bill is that Uniform Rule 24a requires  that committee reports relating to actions on bills be  signed physically by committee members, there lies the  distinction and because there is no committee report that  requires signature, Legislative Council has historically  operated and conducted a large amount of business  telephonically with votes being taken by members who are  participating remotely.    SENATOR SHOWER said thank you and was grateful for that  being made clear and put on the record.    SENATOR STEVENS said he wanted to make clear that last  interim while under the threat of COVID and Council could  not meet physically in one location, it was pretty common  practice, as it has been for many years during the interim,  to not meet physically in one place, but to meet by  teleconference or video conference.    CHAIR HANNAN asked Representative McCabe if his objection  still stood.    REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE replied, yes, it does. Thank you.    CHAIR HANNAN requested a roll call vote.    2:24:18 PM    A roll call vote was taken.    YEAS: Representatives Claman, Edgmon, Hannan, Stutes,  Tuck; Senators Bishop, Micciche, Hoffman, Hughes, Shower,  Stedman, Stevens    NAYS: McCabe, Tilton    The motion passed 12-2.    CHAIR HANNAN asked if there were any questions.    SENATOR MICCICHE said he wanted to make it perfectly clear  and should have brought this up before, but thinks there is  a better path. The reason he supported this motion is the  legislature is in a legal proceeding now and must see it  through. He hopes that Council finds a better way to deal  with this issue going forward. He is not supportive of the  initial lawsuit, but the Legislature is in the middle of it  now and will actually need some legal representation to  deal with it, even if it backs out gracefully. Thank you.    SENATOR HUGHES said she is not supportive of the lawsuit  either, but when things take longer the costs go up and  that is why she voted yes.    REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said for him, it is not about giving  the Chair power or not or the ability to make a decision,  it is specifically about this motion. He thinks there is a  better way and that we are in a crossroads now with this  injunction, where we could find a way to back out  gracefully and do what we want to do with the legislation  instead of with the cost, expense, and divisiveness of a  lawsuit. He thinks the injunction accomplished our goals  and that we need to find a better path, if we can, as a  Council. Hence his no vote. It was not directed at the  Chair in any way.    REPRESENTATIVE STUTES said Chair Hannan did a stupendous  job chairing the first meeting and thanked Madam Chair.    CHAIR HANNAN thanked Speaker Stutes and all members and  staff who, in this fire drill to meet a court deadline that  we believed to be today, made yourselves available on short  notice, in challenging times, on a complex issue. She  assured members this will not be her practice to call  meetings at the last minute, and we will have an organized,  well-advertised in advance Legislative Council meeting in  the very near future.      V.  ADJOURN    CHAIR HANNAN said if there is nothing further to come  before the Council, we are adjourned.    2:29:30 PM