ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                        February 2, 2022                                                                                        
                           5:22 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Zack Fields, Co-Chair (via teleconference)                                                                       
Representative Ivy Spohnholz, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Calvin Schrage                                                                                                   
Representative Liz Snyder (via teleconference)                                                                                  
Representative David Nelson                                                                                                     
Representative James Kaufman                                                                                                    
Representative Ken McCarty                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 131(TITLE AM)                                                                                                   
"An Act relating to the presumption of compensability for a                                                                     
disability resulting from certain cancers in firefighters."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 11(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to community property and to community property                                                                
trusts; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 131                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: WORKERS' COMP DISABILITY FOR FIREFIGHTER                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) HOLLAND                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
04/28/21       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/28/21       (S)       CRA, L&C                                                                                               
05/06/21       (S)       CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/06/21       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/06/21       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
05/11/21       (S)       CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/11/21       (S)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
05/13/21       (S)       CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/13/21       (S)       Moved SB 131 Out of Committee                                                                          
05/13/21       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
05/14/21       (S)       CRA RPT 2DP 2NR                                                                                        
05/14/21       (S)       DP: HUGHES, GRAY-JACKSON                                                                               
05/14/21       (S)       NR: MYERS, WILSON                                                                                      
05/14/21       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/14/21       (S)       Moved SB 131 Out of Committee                                                                          
05/14/21       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
05/17/21       (S)       L&C RPT 4DP                                                                                            
05/17/21       (S)       DP: COSTELLO, MICCICHE, GRAY-JACKSON,                                                                  
                         STEVENS                                                                                                
05/18/21       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
05/18/21       (S)       VERSION: SB 131(TITLE AM)                                                                              
05/19/21       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/19/21       (H)       L&C                                                                                                    
02/02/22       (H)       L&C AT 5:15 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  11                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY PROPERTY TRUSTS                                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) BEGICH                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
01/22/21       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/21                                                                                
01/22/21       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/22/21       (S)       L&C, JUD                                                                                               
03/10/21       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/10/21       (S)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
03/12/21       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/12/21       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/12/21       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/19/21       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/19/21       (S)       Moved SB 11 Out of Committee                                                                           
03/19/21       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/22/21       (S)       L&C RPT 4DP                                                                                            
03/22/21       (S)       DP: COSTELLO, GRAY-JACKSON, STEVENS,                                                                   
                         HOLLAND                                                                                                
05/05/21       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
05/05/21       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/05/21       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
05/10/21       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
05/10/21       (S)       Moved CSSB 11(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
05/10/21       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
05/11/21       (S)       JUD RPT CS  3DP 2NR SAME TITLE                                                                         
05/11/21       (S)       DP: HOLLAND, HUGHES, KIEHL                                                                             
05/11/21       (S)       NR: MYERS, SHOWER                                                                                      
05/17/21       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
05/17/21       (S)       VERSION: CSSB 11(JUD)                                                                                  
05/18/21       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/18/21       (H)       L&C, JUD                                                                                               
02/02/22       (H)       L&C AT 5:15 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ROGER HOLLAND                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   As prime  sponsor, discussed  SB 131(TITLE                                                             
AM)  via a  PowerPoint  presentation, "Senate  Bill 131  WORKERS'                                                               
COMPENSATION DISABILITY FOR FIREFIGHTERS."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NIKKI ROSE, Chief of Staff                                                                                                      
Senator Roger Holland                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  On behalf  of Senator Holland, prime sponsor                                                             
of  SB  131(TITLE  AM),  provided the  sponsor  statement  and  a                                                               
sectional analysis of the bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JUSTIN MACK, Southcentral Vice President                                                                                        
Alaska Professional Firefighters Association                                                                                    
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During the  hearing on  SB 131(TITLE  AM),                                                             
provided invited testimony in support of the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TOM BEGICH                                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   As  the  prime  sponsor of  CSSB  11(JUD),                                                             
discussed the history behind, and provisions of, the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TREVOR BAILLY, Staff                                                                                                            
Senator Tom Begich                                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Provided   the  sponsor   statement  and                                                             
sectional analysis for CSSB 11(JUD)  on behalf of Senator Begich,                                                               
prime sponsor of the bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW BLATTMACHR, President and CEO                                                                                           
Peak Trust Company                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Provided invited  testimony in  support of                                                             
CSSB 11(JUD).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ABIGAIL O'CONNOR, Attorney                                                                                                      
O'Connor Law LLC                                                                                                                
Alaska Trust & Estate Professionals Inc. (ATEP)                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Provided invited  testimony in  support of                                                             
CSSB 11(JUD).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:22:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  IVY  SPOHNHOLZ  called  the House  Labor  and  Commerce                                                             
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    5:22   p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Kaufman, McCarty,  Fields (via  teleconference),                                                               
Snyder (via  teleconference), Nelson, and Spohnholz  were present                                                               
at  the call  to order.   Representative  Schrage arrived  as the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
        SB 131-WORKERS' COMP DISABILITY FOR FIREFIGHTER                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:23:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ announced  that first order of  business would be                                                               
SENATE  BILL  NO.   131(TITLE  AM),  "An  Act   relating  to  the                                                               
presumption  of compensability  for a  disability resulting  from                                                               
certain cancers in firefighters."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ reminded  members  that SB  131(TITLE AM)  is                                                               
similar  to  Representative Kaufman's  bill  [HB  204, which  was                                                               
reported from the committee on 5/17/21].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:24:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ROGER  HOLLAND,  Alaska   State  Legislature,  as  prime                                                               
sponsor of  SB 131(TITLE AM),  stated that the subject  of breast                                                               
cancer coverage for fire service  members initially struck him as                                                               
a complicated  topic, but the more  he looked at the  subject the                                                               
simpler the argument  became.  He said he hopes  to convey what a                                                               
clear and justified request this is.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:25:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NIKKI ROSE, Chief  of Staff, Senator Roger  Holland, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on  behalf of Senator  Holland, prime sponsor  of SB                                                               
131(TITLE  AM), provided  the sponsor  statement and  a sectional                                                               
analysis  of  the  bill.     She  paraphrased  from  the  sponsor                                                               
statement, which read [original punctuation provided with some                                                                  
formatting changes]:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Firefighting  is an  inherently dangerous  job.   It is                                                                    
     important that workers  compensation insurance provides                                                                    
     coverage for the inherent risks  in that job, but right                                                                    
     now there is a hole in that coverage:  breast cancer.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     This  bill  would add  breast  cancer  to the  list  of                                                                    
     presumed  disability  coverages  for  firefighters,  so                                                                    
     long as the firefighter  could establish medically that                                                                    
     the breast cancer was caused by work as a firefighter.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Instances  of cancer  in firefighters  is  shown to  be                                                                    
     higher than the general  population.  Studies that have                                                                    
     evaluated cancer risk  among women firefighters suggest                                                                    
     women firefighters,  like their male coworkers,  may be                                                                    
     at  an  elevated  risk  for  overall  cancer  incidence                                                                    
     (Daniels  et al.,  2014).   These studies  also suggest                                                                    
     women  firefighters may  be  at  an elevated  incidence                                                                    
     risk  for breast  cancer (Daniels  et al.,  2014). This                                                                    
     bill  protects  not  only women,  because  exposure  to                                                                    
     carcinogenic  chemicals, which  is sometimes  necessary                                                                    
     in  the  course  of  a   firefighter's  job,  does  not                                                                    
     discriminate  based  on sex  or  gender.   Exposure  to                                                                    
     these chemicals  may be mitigated, but  not eliminated,                                                                    
     through protective  equipment.   Firefighters are  at a                                                                    
     higher  risk  of  cancer,  and   this  risk  should  be                                                                    
     covered.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Thank  you for  your consideration  of the  addition of                                                                    
     breast  cancer  to  the  list  of  presumed  disability                                                                    
     coverages for firefighters.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:26:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ noted that men can get breast cancer as well                                                                 
as women.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:26:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ROSE  provided the  sectional analysis  of SB  131(TITLE AM).                                                               
She said  the bill relates  to the presumption  of compensability                                                               
for   disabilities   resulting    from   certain   diseases   for                                                               
firefighters.   She explained that  Section 1 of the  bill amends                                                               
AS 23.30.121(b)  by adding the  term "breast cancer" to  the list                                                               
of cancers.  Section 2 of  the bill clarifies this change applies                                                               
to claims made on or after the effective date of this Act.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:27:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLAND  thanked the co-chair for  reminding members that                                                               
breast cancer is  not limited to women, which is  what makes this                                                               
an easy  argument.   He pointed  out that women  make up  about 4                                                               
percent of  the fire service workforce  in Alaska, so it  is hard                                                               
to make a statistical decision  on whether breast cancer coverage                                                               
would be  justified.   But, he  continued, male  firefighters are                                                               
7.5 times  more likely to  die of  breast cancer than  their male                                                               
counterparts not in the fire service.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOLLAND began  a PowerPoint  presentation, "Senate  Bill                                                               
131  WORKERS'  COMPENSATION  DISABILITY FOR  FIREFIGHTERS."    He                                                               
displayed slide 2,  "SB 131," and stated that  firefighting is an                                                               
inherently dangerous job and currently  there is an oversight [in                                                               
Alaska  statutes]   regarding  [workers   compensation  insurance                                                               
coverage] for breast  cancer.  He moved to slide  3, "Senate Bill                                                               
131," and  said the bill would  add breast cancer to  the list of                                                               
presumed disability coverages.  He  turned to slide 4 and related                                                               
that instances of cancer in  firefighters are higher than that of                                                               
the general  public, which  is why  there is  a list  of presumed                                                               
disability  coverages.   Studies suggest  women firefighters  may                                                               
also be at an elevated incidence of risk for breast cancer.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLAND  addressed slides 5 and  6, "General Statistics."                                                               
Paraphrasing  from slide  5,  he specified  that  in the  general                                                               
population, less than one percent  of males are likely to develop                                                               
breast cancer  in their lifetime,  yet male firefighters  are 7.5                                                               
times more likely  to die from breast cancer  than their non-fire                                                               
service  counterparts.    The same  mechanism  that  would  cause                                                               
increases  in  breast cancer  in  men  is  thought to  result  in                                                               
proportional increases  in risk  among women.   Paraphrasing from                                                               
slide 6,  he further  specified that  in the  general population,                                                               
one  in eight  women  (12 percent)  will  likely contract  breast                                                               
cancer  in their  lifetime.   The bill  protects not  only women,                                                               
because exposure  to carcinogenic  chemicals, which  often occurs                                                               
in  the   normal  course  of   a  firefighter's  job,   does  not                                                               
discriminate based on gender.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLAND continued to slides  7 and 8, "Presumptive Laws."                                                               
Speaking from  slide 7,  he explained  that presumptive  laws are                                                               
regulations that  assume a given  disease is linked,  by default,                                                               
to  a specific  occupation.    This means  that  when someone  is                                                               
diagnosed with an illness covered  under a presumptive law, he or                                                               
she  is   automatically  entitled   to  disability   or  workers'                                                               
compensation,  medical  expense   coverage,  and  medical  leave,                                                               
provided certain  criteria are  met.  Speaking  from slide  8, he                                                               
further  explained that  without presumptive  laws, to  get these                                                               
benefits firefighters  and other workers  may have to  prove that                                                               
their line of work caused their disease.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOLLAND reviewed  slide 9,  "Alaska Statute  23.30.121."                                                               
He pointed out  that under SB 131(TITLE AM),  breast cancer would                                                               
join the  current list of  presumptive diseases  for firefighting                                                               
in Alaska,  which includes:  respiratory  disease, cardiovascular                                                               
events, primary  brain cancer, malignant  melanoma, non-Hodgkin's                                                               
lymphoma,  bladder  cancer,  ureter cancer,  kidney  cancer,  and                                                               
prostate cancer.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOLLAND  displayed slide  10,  "Presumptive  Laws."   He                                                               
continued to  slides 11 and  12, "Alaska Statute  23.30.121," and                                                               
said more  work may need  to be done in  this area.   Speaking to                                                               
slide 11,  he explained that once  breast cancer is added  to the                                                               
list   of  presumptive   diseases,  several   criteria  [standard                                                               
limitations] would apply.   The firefighter must: 1)  have been a                                                               
firefighter for  at least  seven years; 2)  have had  initial and                                                               
annual medical  exams showing  no evidence  of disease  for those                                                               
seven  years; 3)  be  able  to demonstrate  exposure  to a  known                                                               
carcinogen while  in the fire  service; and  4) at a  minimum, be                                                               
certified as a Firefighter I.   Speaking to slide 12, he outlined                                                               
the other qualifying criteria or  conflicts that would apply.  He                                                               
said coverage  may be  denied based on  use of  tobacco products;                                                               
physical  fitness  and  weight, lifestyle  decisions,  hereditary                                                               
factors,  [and  exposure   from  other  employment/non-employment                                                               
activities].  Some post-employment  coverage is available where a                                                               
firefighter accrues  three months of  coverage for every  year of                                                               
service up to a five-year maximum.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLAND  showed slide  13, "Senate  Bill 131,"  and noted                                                               
that  14  states  include  breast  cancer  in  presumptive  laws:                                                               
Arizona,  Arkansas,  Colorado,   Idaho,  Iowa,  Maine,  Maryland,                                                               
Missouri, Montana,  New Mexico,  New York, Oregon,  Virginia, and                                                               
Wisconsin.   He  said he  would appreciate  the committee  adding                                                               
Alaska as the fifteenth state.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:32:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS thanked the sponsors  of the companion bills.  He                                                               
said  it   is  a   reality  that  cancer   is  more   likely  for                                                               
firefighters, and it should be recognized given their service.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:32:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NELSON noted that the  bill has a zero fiscal note                                                               
because this is workers'  compensative coverage that firefighters                                                               
pay for themselves.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:33:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ opened invited testimony.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:33:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JUSTIN  MACK, Southcentral  Vice  President, Alaska  Professional                                                               
Firefighters Association,  provided invited testimony  in support                                                               
of  SB 131(TITLE  AM).   He  noted that  the Alaska  Professional                                                               
Firefighters Association represents about  500 fire and emergency                                                               
medical service (EMS)  professionals.  He said he  has worked for                                                               
the Anchorage Fire  Department for 10 years  and currently serves                                                               
as a  captain and  as state director  for the  firefighter cancer                                                               
support network, a peer-to-peer cancer support program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MACK stated  that a  firefighter's job  is routine  until it                                                               
isn't.    The  tones  go  off at  2:00  a.m.  and  minutes  later                                                               
firefighters find themselves in a  building they've never been in                                                               
with  heavy smoke,  fire, and  zero  visibility.   The calls  are                                                               
routine until the report of  multiple victims trapped in a multi-                                                               
family  structure, and  the firefighters  are  the difference  in                                                               
whether the victims will see another  day.  While these calls are                                                               
anything but routine,  it is the career a  firefighter has chosen                                                               
and loves to  do.  All firefighters know that  this career can be                                                               
dangerous, it simply isn't safe to walk into a burning building.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK  related that early in  his career he learned  that good                                                               
training and tactics  can help keep a firefighter safe.   What he                                                               
failed to understand,  however, is that no matter  how careful he                                                               
is as a firefighter, even  if he follows every standard operating                                                               
guideline, decontaminates  himself and  his equipment,  and wears                                                               
the most up-to-date personal protection  equipment (PPE), he will                                                               
be  exposed to  some  of the  worst chemicals  on  earth.   These                                                               
chemicals permeate a firefighter's gear,  make their way into the                                                               
firefighter's pores,  and then linger.   This is the  reason that                                                               
after  a significant  structure fire  firefighters will  for days                                                               
smell it on themselves after a  shower as their pores open up and                                                               
start to release some of those chemicals.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK  explained that  Alaska's workers'  compensation usually                                                               
requires that a specific injury be  tied to a specific event.  In                                                               
a case of cancer, it's very  hard to say which structure fire may                                                               
have  caused  the  cancer,  but  study  after  study  shows  that                                                               
firefighters  have a  significant increase  in cancer  rates when                                                               
compared to the general public.   An unusual phenomenon occurs in                                                               
the  fire  service    firefighters  come  there  as some  of  the                                                               
healthiest amongst  the population  but often  retire as  some of                                                               
the unhealthiest.   Twenty to  thirty years  at this job  takes a                                                               
toll and for some that's a life changing cancer diagnosis.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK said  SB 131(TITLE AM) is a step  in the right direction                                                               
in advocating  for public safety  members who, while  knowing the                                                               
risk, continue  to respond at 2:00  a.m.  He urged  the committee                                                               
to support the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:36:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCARTY  asked  whether Mr.  Mack  believes  that                                                               
language should  be included  in the  bill about  a documentation                                                               
procedure for verifying  exposure to a carcinogen.   That way, he                                                               
continued, documentation about  carcinogen exposure would already                                                               
be in place should a firefighter be diagnosed with cancer.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK replied  that reporting is done for every  run done by a                                                               
firefighter.   Specifically for structure  fires, he  said, there                                                               
is an inherent  understanding of a long list of  chemicals that a                                                               
firefighter could  reasonably expect to  have been exposed.   The                                                               
issue that  states often run  into with workers'  compensation is                                                               
this  language of  tying it  to one  specific event,  he advised.                                                               
Presumptive  takes   a  firefighter's  career  and   his  or  her                                                               
reporting documentation  so a reasonable  assumption can  be made                                                               
that this person got cancer at a  younger age or a very rare type                                                               
of cancer.  This is a  personal issue, Mr. Mack continued, as his                                                               
mother-in-law developed  a rare  blood cancer  after 25  years of                                                               
being  a firefighter.   She  was one  of the  first people  to go                                                               
through some of  this presumptive fight and  the documentation of                                                               
the call  volume that  she had  over 25 years  was helpful.   The                                                               
presumptive legislation  and just  making the assumption  is what                                                               
was  especially   beneficial  in  getting  her   covered  through                                                               
workers' compensation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:39:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  inquired about the types  of carcinogens that                                                               
are commonly known to be present in a typical structure fire.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK  said he would  send the committee a  comprehensive list                                                               
of the  [chemicals] that firefighters are  reasonably expected to                                                               
be  exposed  to,  as  well  as   the  ones  it  is  thought  that                                                               
firefighters are  exposed to.   For each  chemical the  list will                                                               
also state the household items that  the chemical is found in and                                                               
the type(s) of cancers specifically that those relate to.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:40:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NELSON, regarding  documentation, asked whether it                                                               
is assumed  that when  responding to a  house or  other structure                                                               
fire a  firefighter is going  to be exposed to  certain chemicals                                                               
or whether a test is done afterwards to determine exposure.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK replied it is assumed  and that testing is not typically                                                               
done.   However, he  continued, several  studies have  been done.                                                               
One study, which  he said he would provide to  the committee, put                                                               
a firefighter  through a structure  fire while using all  the up-                                                               
to-date PPE and decontamination  procedures.  Urinary testing was                                                               
then  done  for  the  week  following  that  structure  fire  and                                                               
significant  amounts  of  carcinogens were  found  in  decreasing                                                               
amounts  over five  to seven  days.   As  well, carcinogens  were                                                               
found on the skin for a couple days.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NELSON asked whether  contamination on the skin is                                                               
a problem  that is related  to the equipment  or decontamination,                                                               
or that over 25 years a firefighter is going to have it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACK replied that some  of these carcinogens permeate through                                                               
the multiple layers  of gear, plus for every  one degree increase                                                               
in body temperature there is a  400 percent increase in pore size                                                               
and absorption.   When operating in a structure  fire of 500-1000                                                               
degrees, a firefighter's body temperature  gets elevated and skin                                                               
pores open,  and this is  when these  carcinogens are in  the air                                                               
and going  directly through the  firefighter's gear  and directly                                                               
into his or  her pores.  Firefighters are aware  that this exists                                                               
and that even with significant improvements  in PPE it is still a                                                               
risk.  But if  there is a fire in a house or  a rescue that needs                                                               
to be done, firefighters are going to go in and do it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:44:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ  remarked that  there  are  limits to  modern                                                               
technology's  ability   to  protect  a  person   from  smoke  and                                                               
chemicals.   The  evidence  on this  matter  is substantial,  she                                                               
continued, as  male firefighters  are 7.5  times more  likely and                                                               
female  firefighters 4  times more  likely to  get breast  cancer                                                               
than males  and females in  the general population.   She offered                                                               
her appreciation to the sponsor for bringing forth the bill.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ announced that SB 131 was held over.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                SB 11-COMMUNITY PROPERTY TRUSTS                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:45:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ announced  that the  final order  of business                                                               
would be  COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR  SENATE BILL NO.  11(JUD), "An                                                               
Act  relating to  community property  and  to community  property                                                               
trusts; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:45:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  TOM  BEGICH,  Alaska State  Legislature,  as  the  prime                                                               
sponsor  of CSSB  11(JUD), recounted  that  major legislation  on                                                               
trusts  was signed  into law  in 1997,  and that  soon afterward,                                                               
House  Bill 199  by  Representative Joe  Ryan  was passed,  which                                                               
provided  that a  couple  can  opt to  put  their  assets into  a                                                               
community trust.  Representative Ryan  testified at the time that                                                               
a positive  element of House Bill  199 was that on  behalf of the                                                               
estate  of a  person in  a community  trust who  has died,  there                                                               
would be no  tax liability on any appreciation in  the basis (the                                                               
value  of an  asset at  the  time of  purchase).   Representative                                                               
Ryan's  testimony indicated  that appreciation  of the  asset was                                                               
critical in  what he was  trying to do.   The intent in  1997 was                                                               
that if  a married couple put  assets into a community  trust and                                                               
then 25 years  later one dies before the other,  the value of the                                                               
assets in that community trust  would include the appreciation as                                                               
one of those assets.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEGICH  explained, however, that a  recent court decision                                                               
created ambiguity  about that intent when  the decision indicated                                                               
that the  value of  the asset was  the value at  the time  of the                                                               
community  trust as  opposed  to  being the  value  of the  asset                                                               
accrued  over time.   He  said  CSSB 11(JUD)  clarifies that  the                                                               
income  and appreciation  combined is  what was  intended by  the                                                               
author of  the original bill;  if enacted, it  incorporates those                                                               
elements of  the Uniform Marital  Property Act that  were already                                                               
said would be incorporated.  It is  an elect an option, it is not                                                               
mandatory like  some of  the community property  states.   To not                                                               
create  constitutional issues  with  retroactivity, CSSB  11(JUD)                                                               
includes a  savings clause, thereby effectively  reminding people                                                               
what  the meaning  was back  when the  law passed.   The  bill is                                                               
designed such  that it would  not affect any litigation  that may                                                               
be  pending, or  any  litigation entered  prior  to CSSB  11(JUD)                                                               
becoming law.  The bill fixes  a mistake in interpretation.  When                                                               
there  is an  ambiguity in  any interpretation,  the court  often                                                               
looks to  the legislature to  correct or clarify  that ambiguity,                                                               
which is what CSSB 11(JUD) does.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:50:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TREVOR   BAILLY,  Staff,   Senator  Tom   Begich,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature,  provided   the  sponsor  statement   and  sectional                                                               
analysis  for CSSB  11(JUD) on  behalf of  Senator Begich,  prime                                                               
sponsor of the bill.   He paraphrased from the sponsor statement,                                                               
which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  is  a  state  with  favorable  trust  laws  and                                                                    
     favorable laws for  property ownership between spouses.                                                                    
     Alaska   allows  for   "opt   in"  community   property                                                                    
     ownership between  married spouses.  Community property                                                                    
     ownership  can  provide  tremendous tax  advantages  to                                                                    
     spouses. In Alaska, residents  can enter into community                                                                    
     property  agreements,  and residents  and  nonresidents                                                                    
     can enter  into Alaska community property  trusts. This                                                                    
     benefits  the  individuals entering  these  agreements,                                                                    
     the  trust industry  of Alaska,  increases deposits  in                                                                    
     Alaska banks  and through the revenue  generated by the                                                                    
     formation of a new trust, the state.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Community  property  is  simply  a  way  to  own  joint                                                                    
     property. A  common way to  enter a  community property                                                                    
     agreement  is in  conjunction with  one's spouse.  Each                                                                    
     party must elect into this  agreement and the agreement                                                                    
     provides,   most   commonly,    equal   ownership   and                                                                    
     management of specific property.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Currently,  community property  has  a significant  tax                                                                    
     advantage. When  a spouse  dies, community  property is                                                                    
     placed into a category  that allows tax advantages when                                                                    
     that property is sold.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     To  realize these  advantages, appreciation  and income                                                                    
     must be characterized as community property.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The default  rule has generally been  that appreciation                                                                    
     and income on community  property will be characterized                                                                    
     as  community property,  unless  otherwise declared  in                                                                    
     the  community  property  trust. Trust  attorneys  have                                                                    
     attested to  this interpretation, however  recent court                                                                    
     rulings  have  created  an ambiguous  understanding  of                                                                    
     this  general criterion.  This legislation,  consistent                                                                    
     with  industry  understandings   of  trusts,  seeks  to                                                                    
     clearly   define   community  property   as   including                                                                    
     appreciation and income on community property.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     SB 11  establishes a  clear definition  of appreciation                                                                    
     and income  as community  property, as intended  by The                                                                    
     Community   Property  Trust   Act.  Portions   of  this                                                                    
     legislation also  have a retroactive effective  date of                                                                    
     May 23, 1998.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:53:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAILLY next paraphrased from the sectional analysis, which                                                                  
read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1. Clarifies intent of subsection (h) under AS                                                                     
     34.77.030 to ensure any financial gains directly                                                                           
     related to appreciation of community property trusts                                                                       
     are treated as community property unless legal trust                                                                       
     documents clearly state otherwise.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2. Adds a new subsection under AS 34.77.030 to                                                                     
     retroactively apply the above changes in statute to                                                                        
     community property trust agreements established on or                                                                      
     after May 23, 1998. This section also applies an                                                                           
     existing statutory definition of "community property                                                                       
     trust."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3. Adds as a new uncodified law of the State                                                                       
     of Alaska to ensure above changes do not impact court                                                                      
     actions or proceedings that began before Section 1 of                                                                      
     this Act takes effect.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4. Establishes a retroactivity date of Section                                                                     
     1 of this Act as May 23, 1998.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section   5.  States   Section   1   and  Section   are                                                                    
     immediately    effective   upon    passage   of    this                                                                    
     legislation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:54:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ shared  her  understanding that  the bill  as                                                               
written would not  nullify previously taken court  action, but it                                                               
would allow currently existing community  property trusts to have                                                               
that appreciation incorporated into the value moving forward.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEGICH confirmed that that understanding is correct.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:54:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY  drew attention to the  sponsor statement,                                                               
first  paragraph, fourth  line, which  states that  residents and                                                               
nonresidents  can enter  Alaska  community property  trusts.   He                                                               
inquired about how  far reaching the ability  is for nonresidents                                                               
to be involved in this.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEGICH replied  that that has been allowed  under the law                                                               
since 1998.   He recounted that Representative  Ryan talked about                                                               
there  being 41  states (at  that time)  that were  not mandatory                                                               
community property states.  Those  41 states have had the ability                                                               
to take advantage of Alaska's  laws since passage of the original                                                               
[Community Property  Trust Act], otherwise Alaska  would probably                                                               
be  in   violation  of  the   commerce  clause  of   the  federal                                                               
constitution.    So,  residents and  nonresidents  are  mentioned                                                               
because the community  property trusts are open.   Senator Begich                                                               
pointed out  that this  leads to an  enhanced ability  for people                                                               
who  don't  live in  Alaska  to  take  advantage of  the  state's                                                               
community property trust law, which  increases income into Alaska                                                               
and provides some  support for the banking systems  in the state.                                                               
It makes  Alaska an attractive  place to enter a  community trust                                                               
if someone  wishes, so  CSSB 11(JUD) creates  an incentive.   Not                                                               
having this  bill in place, and  having the ambiguity, acts  as a                                                               
disincentive so that people are  disinclined to come to Alaska to                                                               
start their community trust if they choose to have one.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:57:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE requested an  explanation of the effective                                                               
date.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEGICH  responded that there  are two effective  dates in                                                               
the bill.   The first effective date, which is  Section 4, is the                                                               
retroactivity clause that is an  effective date.  The second only                                                               
deals  with Sections  1  and 4  of  the Act  to  ensure that  the                                                               
retroactivity  becomes  effective  on passage  of  the  effective                                                               
date.   A trigger must  be had  to make the  retroactivity become                                                               
effective; in Section  1 an effective date is not  needed for the                                                               
other two, so just Sections 1 and 4 are immediate.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE asked why beginning in 1998.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEGICH answered that that's  the date when the law became                                                               
effective immediately.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:58:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BEGICH noted  that Linda  Hulbert, an  invited testifier                                                               
who may or  may not be online, has a  financial relationship in a                                                               
trust relationship  with a member of  his staff.  He  stated that                                                               
has had  no impact and  is not it  a reason why  this legislation                                                               
was considered.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ responded that Ms. Hulbert is not online.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ [opened invited testimony on CSSB 11(JUD)].                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:59:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW  BLATTMACHR,  President  and  CEO,  Peak  Trust  Company,                                                               
provided invited testimony  in support of CSSB 11(JUD).   He said                                                               
he personally supports the bill, as  does Peak Trust Company.  He                                                               
said  thousands  of Alaskans,  if  not  tens of  thousands,  have                                                               
utilized  this  provision in  Alaska  statutes  for the  last  25                                                               
years.   The intent of all  those plans was that  accumulation of                                                               
income and appreciation would be  included in community property.                                                               
This bill  corrects an  error and  gets things  back to  what was                                                               
originally intended.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:00:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ABIGAIL  O'CONNOR, Attorney,  O'Connor  Law LLC,  Alaska Trust  &                                                               
Estate Professionals  Inc. (ATEP), provided invited  testimony in                                                               
support  of  CSSB 11(JUD).    She  said she  represents  numerous                                                               
clients in  Alaska who  have community  property trusts.   Having                                                               
appreciation  and   income  also   be  community   property,  she                                                               
continued, is a critical element  of the whole community property                                                               
structure and  planning, without  it there is  not much  point to                                                               
doing it.   It is critical  that appreciation and income  also be                                                               
community property.   She said she supports  CSSB 11(JUD) because                                                               
going forward  trusts can  be written  to include  this language;                                                               
however, given  the court  ruling, trusts  created prior  to this                                                               
time may not have that language  and the bill solves that problem                                                               
for those Alaskans.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:02:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ [held over CSSB 11(JUD)].                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:03:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at                                                                  
6:03 p.m.