HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE April 11, 1997 3:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman Representative Bill Hudson Representative Jerry Sanders Representative Joe Ryan Representative Tom Brice MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 137 "An Act exempting certain volunteer emergency medical technicians and volunteer firefighters from state wage and hour laws; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED HCSSB 137(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: SB 137 SHORT TITLE: EXEMPT VOL. EMT/FIRE FGTR WAGE & HOUR LAW SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN, Miller, Taylor, Pearce, Mackie JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 03/12/97 695 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/12/97 695 (S) L&C 03/26/97 874 (S) L&C RPT 3DP 1NR 03/26/97 874 (S) DP: LEMAN, KELLY MILLER; NR: HOFFMAN 03/26/97 874 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTES (LABOR, DPS) 04/02/97 934 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/2/97 04/02/97 937 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/02/97 938 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT 04/02/97 938 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 137 04/02/97 937 (S) COSPONSOR(S): TAYLOR, PEARCE, MACKIE 04/02/97 938 (S) PASSED Y18 N- A2 04/02/97 938 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE 04/02/97 944 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 04/03/97 920 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 04/03/97 920 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE WITNESS REGISTER ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 113 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-2095 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HCSSB 137(L&C). TOM DEAN, CHIEF, Emergency Medical Service Tok Area Box 811 Tok, Alaska 99780 Telephone: (907) 883-5873 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137(L&C). CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director Interior Region Emergency Medical Services 3522 Industrial Avenue Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 456-3978 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137 (L&C). RANDY CARR, Chief Labor Standards, Mechanical Inspection Division of Labor Standards and Safety Department of Labor P.O.Box 107021 Anchorage, Alaska 99510 Telephone: (907) 269-4914 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that the department does not oppose HCSSB 137 (L&C). MARK JOHNSON, Chief Community Health and Emergency Medical Services Central Office Division of Public Health Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110616 Juneau, Alaska 99811 Telephone: (907) 465-3027 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137(L&C). ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-39, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee to order at 3:30 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Cowdery, Sanders, Ryan, Hudson and Rokeberg. SB 137 - EXEMPT VOL. EMT/FIRE FGTR WAGE & HOUR LAW Number 0046 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that the committee would hear SB 137 "An Act exempting certain volunteer emergency medical technicians and volunteer firefighters from state wage and hour laws; and providing for an effective date." He stated that Senator Leman's staff will present the bill. Number 082 ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman, stated that the committee has a blank committee substitute for the bill and if the committee decides to adopt it, she will explain the reason for the change. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. Kreitzer to tell the committee what the bill does and then they will take up the committee substitute. Number 108 MS. KREITZER stated that the bill was introduced at the request of Interior Region Emergency Medical Services, (EMS). It adds voluntary Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT) and firefighters to the list of those exempted from the Alaska Wage and Hour Act. She stated that it was necessary to do so because the interpretation by the Department of Labor, of what constitutes an employee/employer relationship under the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act. The interpretation has been confusing and inconsistent and there is no clear exemption for these volunteers under current law. She stated that the Department of Labor does not have a clear category to be able to exempt firefighters and EMTs for the purposes of reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses. The bill does this. Number 192 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to adopt HCSSB 137(L&C), 0-LSO727, Version E, 4/10/97. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was an objection, hearing none, HCSSB 137(L&C) was adopted. Number 229 MS. KREITZER stated that the reason for the committee substitute is that she had received a phone call from a combined fire department, which is a fire department that has both paid and volunteer firefighters. Their concern was that the bill would be used to force paid firefighters to volunteer, which was not the intent of the bill. The intent is just to get volunteer firemen exempt from the Alaska Wage and Hour Act for the purpose of reimbursement. She stated that the changes in the committee substitute are on line 5, in which the word "only" has been added to read "an individual who provides emergency medical services only on a voluntary basis or an individual who serves with a full-time fire department only on a voluntary basis." She stated that the other change is that in the previous bill it stated that "an individual who serves with a full- time fire department on a temporary, voluntary basis", the word "temporary" was deleted because the drafter did not understand why the word was in there to begin with. It was her understanding that firefighters who volunteer do not just volunteer for one year but for many years. She stated that with the word "temporary" in the bill, those firefighters would not be included as individuals who could be reimbursed for their out-of-pocket expenses. Number 350 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked what would be an example of the fiscal effect with and with out this bill. Number 360 MS. KREITZER replied that the Tok EMS representative could explain his service as one that was impacted by the lack of this legislation. She stated that his service would have to organize forms which would add cost. Number 413 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the Tok representative could also speak to the overtime impact. Number 474 TOM DEAN, CHIEF, Emergency Medical Services, Tok Area, testified via teleconference in Tok, that EMS is an active service with some long transports from Tok to Fairbanks two or three times a month, averaging nine hours. He stated that occasionally they go to Anchorage which is a 15-hour trip. He stated that the EMTs are completely volunteer and he does not want it to cost the volunteers in out-of-pocket expenses, especially on the long transports. He stated that his concern is not to have a financial hardship on the volunteers. He stated that they are not in the position to get into a paid or partially paid employer/employee relationship. His concern is if people are willing to give their time it should not cost them to do so. He stated that he is in favor of the bill. Number 653 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could give an example of traveling to Anchorage or Fairbanks for training with the costs, and where this bill would apply. Number 675 MR. DEAN replied that paying the per diem to cover meals and incidentals when out of town for training or out of town on transports would help. He stated that his concern is that they don't get into hourly wages and an employer/employee relationship. He stated that they want to be fair to the volunteers and at the same time not have any legal hassles. He stated that the amount of money is not a lot, but apparently it is enough where it could be a question of hour wage loss. Number 748 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if volunteers receive any benefits from the state for their work. MR. DEAN asked if he was asking in regards to the service or to the individual people. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY replied for the people. Number 771 MR. DEAN responded no the only benefit for the people is the training, the experience and helping their neighbors. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if there is any compensation or health benefits. Number 792 MR. DEAN replied no. Number 801 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN stated that there are a number of volunteer fire organizations because the bureau cannot afford to put together class one employees and pay for them. The borough supplies equipment and training and the volunteers are not compensated because there is no provision to compensate them. He stated money would be appropriated from time to time to purchase new equipment but there was no benefit or employment package for the volunteers. He stated that in remote areas, volunteers are the only service that provides fire protection. Number 873 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Dean if he could send a letter explaining his support for the bill. Number 904 MR. DEAN stated that he would. Number 904 CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director, Interior Region, Emergency Medical Services and President of the Alaska Emergency Medical Association, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of the bill. He stated that 2,000 volunteers across the state of Alaska provide the predominance of all the pre-hospital care done in the state. They do this of their own volition, on their free time and in many cases with their own money. He stated that there is the situation of having many rules which impact the definition of what a volunteer is and what is an employee. An EMT that is a volunteer right now, is on the edge of being interpreted as an employee under the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act and under the Wage and Hour Law of Alaska. He stated that then the agencies become employers and would have to assume all the responsibilities that an employer would have to assume when, in reality, all the organization wants to do is volunteer their time to help their neighbors in times of crisis. He stated that if a group of people tells you when to come to work, provides a uniform, a vehicle, in this case an ambulance, provides training and reimburses expenses, it is interpreted by the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act as no longer being a volunteer but being an employee. He stated that they are trying to add to legislation that is already in place for educational institutions, sanitary workers and religious organizations, so volunteer EMTs and firefighters are not forced out of business. He stated that these organizations cannot afford to do things that are required of an employer. The people who volunteer are not asking that they do those things and subsequently he would like to be able to keep those volunteers. He stated that the Governors's Advisory Council on Emergency Medical Services also supports this idea. Number 1155 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could ask the Governor's Advisory Council to provide the committee with a letter. Number 1167 MR. LEWIS stated that the council is meeting in Juneau at the end of April and the Chairman of the council is Dr. John Hall. He stated that he would ask him for a letter. Number 1183 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that hopefully the bill will pass before that date but a letter would be helpful. He thanked the several thousand volunteers around the state and stated that it is the committee's intent to fix any problems in the law that creates undue burdens on the organization. Number 1211 RANDY CARR, Chief, Labor Standards, Mechanical Inspection, Division of Labor Standards and Safety, Department of Labor, testified via teleconference from Anchorage that this legislation seeks to level the playing field between the private non-profit emergency service organizations that exist in some of the rural areas and in some areas of Fairbanks and all of the public fire departments and emergency rescue services. He stated that most of the public services have a voluntary arm but as a public sector entity are exempt from the State Wage and Hour Act. The private non-profit organizations do not have that exemption; they have to qualify under another exemption. He stated that the only one that comes close is AS 23.10.055 which addresses non-profit organizations but limits them to religious, charitable, cemetery or educational organizations. He stated that the charter and bylaws of the emergency services organizations do not define them as one of those four types of non-profit. He stated that by default they are in the situation of not legally being able to accept volunteer labor under the current status of the state law and they are covered under the State Wage and Hour Act. He stated that the department has not had any wage claims but have identified that the exemption does not cover the emergency services and there is gap in terms of operations, causing them to have to consider themselves employers. He stated that a situation that has arisen is that there needs to be a person in the ambulance garage location overnight so that should a call come in, they will have the equipment fired up and ready when the volunteers get there. He stated that these people would do this in exchange for room and board but because they cannot avoid the minimum wage overtime requirement this would be illegal. He stated that the intent of this legislation is to allow the private non-profit rescue and fire organizations to have the same exempt status that allows them to accept volunteer labor. He stated that the Department of Labor does not oppose this legislation and it has minor impact across the state, because the majority of volunteers work for public entities rather than private entities. Number 1419 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that a couple years back legislation was passed regarding volunteer firefighters and policemen and asked if volunteer policeman would be included in this legislation. Number 1444 MR. CARR replied that it does not apply and he is not aware of any private police organization that exists in the state. To his knowledge they are all under the political subdivision's exemptions. Number 1459 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any instances where the state tried to enforce the State Wage and Hour Act against any of the organizations. Number 1469 MR. CARR replied there have not been any claims filed with the department. He stated that they have shown the organizations where the pitfalls lay and gave them the opportunity to restructure the operation to avoid the potential liability. He stated that a small wage claim could put these organizations under and the department is tying to avoid this. He stated that the department is trying to work with the organizations to assure that they avoid a liability that they can not afford. Number 1513 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that Mr. Carr indicated that the department does not oppose the bill and asked what would make him support the bill. Number 1520 MR. CARR replied that as an historical matter the department does not like to see any individual employee's rights to minimum wage or overtime eroded. He stated that the bill does that, but the department does believe that the impact is extremely small, which is offset by the general public policy benefit that is affected by the bill. Number 1562 MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and Emergency Medical Services, Central Office, Division of Public Health, Department of Health and Social Services, stated that the department supports the intent of the legislation. He stated that this bill makes it easier for volunteers to be reimbursed, which is one more step to the ability to recruit new volunteers or to retain the volunteers that are already in the system. He stated that in most of rural Alaska, the system is the volunteers. He stated that in regard to Representative Cowdery's question, volunteers do not get many benefits from the state. He stated that Representative Hudson's bill on worker's compensation was a help and there was a bill that enabled volunteers in the unorganized areas to get Hepatitis B vaccinations. He stated that the department definitely supports this legislation. Number 1625 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the department supports this legislation. MR. JOHNSON replied yes. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could send a letter stating the department's support. Number 1633 MR. JOHNSON replied that he believed he could. Number 1654 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HCSSB 137(L&C), 0- LSO727, Version E, 4/10/97, zero fiscal note, with individual recommendations and asked unanimous consent. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections, hearing none, HCSSB 137(L&C) moved out of the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee. ADJOURNMENT Number 1724 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Standing at 3:54 p.m.