ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 23, 2004
3:03 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Peggy Wilson, Chair
Representative Carl Gatto, Vice Chair
Representative John Coghill
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Kelly Wolf
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Mary Kapsner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 405
"An Act relating to reports on school and school district
performance; and relating to accountability of public schools
and school districts; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 405(EDU) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 333
"An Act relating to an endowment for public education; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 333(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 440
"An Act relating to the Alaska Pioneers' Home, and the Alaska
Veterans' Home; relating to eligibility for admission to the
Alaska Pioneers' Home and Alaska Veterans' Home; relating to
state veterans' home facilities; making conforming amendments;
and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 440(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 201
"An Act relating to home care and respite care; and providing
for an effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 405
SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL PERFORMANCE DESIGNATION/REPORT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GATTO
01/28/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/28/04 (H) EDU, HES
02/17/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/17/04 (H) <Bill Hearing Postponed>
03/02/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/02/04 (H) Heard & Held
03/02/04 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
03/09/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/09/04 (H) Moved CSHB 405(EDU) Out of Committee
03/09/04 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
03/18/04 (H) EDU RPT CS(EDU) 5DP 1NR
03/18/04 (H) DP: SEATON, WILSON, OGG, GARA, GATTO;
03/18/04 (H) NR: WOLF
03/23/04 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 333
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC SCHOOL ENDOWMENT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGG, COGHILL, HOLM
01/12/04 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/2/04
01/12/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/12/04 (H) EDU, HES, FIN
01/27/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
01/27/04 (H) <Bill Hearing Postponed>
03/02/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/02/04 (H) Heard & Held
03/02/04 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
03/09/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/09/04 (H) Heard & Held
03/09/04 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
03/16/04 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/16/04 (H) Moved CSHB 333(EDU) Out of Committee
03/16/04 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
03/18/04 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/18/04 (H) <Above Item Removed from Agenda>
03/18/04 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/22/04 (H) EDU RPT CS(EDU) NT 3DP 4NR
03/22/04 (H) DP: OGG, WILSON, GATTO; NR: SEATON,
03/22/04 (H) GARA, WOLF, KAPSNER
03/23/04 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 440
SHORT TITLE: PIONEERS' HOMES/VETERANS' HOMES
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/05/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/05/04 (H) MLV, HES, FIN
03/04/04 (H) MLV AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/04/04 (H) Heard & Held
03/04/04 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
03/18/04 (H) MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/18/04 (H) Moved CSHB 440(MLV) Out of Committee
03/18/04 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
03/22/04 (H) MLV RPT CS(MLV) NT 6DP 1AM
03/22/04 (H) DP: WEYHRAUCH, CISSNA, MASEK,
03/22/04 (H) DAHLSTROM, GRUENBERG, STEPOVICH;
03/22/04 (H) NR: LYNN
03/23/04 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
LES MORSE, Director
Assessment and Accountability
Department of Education and Early Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 405 and answered
questions from the members.
CLIFF STONE, Staff
to Representative Dan Ogg
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the sponsor of HB
333.
EDDY JEANS, School Finance and Facilities Section
Education Support Services
Department of Education and Early Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During discussion of HB 333, answered
questions.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN OGG
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke as the sponsor of HB 333.
DENNIS DeWITT, Special Assistant
Office of the Governor
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 440 and answered
questions of the members.
ED KNOEBEL, Service Officer
Legion Post 27
Glennallen, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 440 and asked questions
concerning the bill.
JOHN VOWELL, Director
Division of Alaska Longevity Programs
Department of Health and Social Services
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 440 and answered questions.
CHARLIE HUGGINS, Director
Office of Veteran Affairs
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 440.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-21, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR PEGGY WILSON called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:03 p.m.
Representatives Wilson, Wolf, Cissna, and Kapsner were present
at the call to order. Representatives Gatto, Coghill, and
Seaton joined the meeting as it was in progress.
HB 405-SCHOOL PERFORMANCE DESIGNATION/REPORT
Number 0119
CHAIR WILSON announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 405, "An Act relating to reports on school and
school district performance; and relating to accountability of
public schools and school districts; and providing for an
effective date."
The committee took an at-ease from 3:05 p.m. to 3:07 p.m.
Number 0195
CHAIR WILSON announced for the record that Representatives Gatto
and Seaton have joined the meeting.
Number 0202
REPRESENTATIVE CARL GATTO, Alaska State Legislature, testified
as sponsor of HB 405. He told the members that [school]
designators are a way to identify whether schools are doing well
or poorly. Representative Gatto explained that there are two
sets of designators which are different, one set on the state
level and one set on the federal level. This fact causes double
the work for districts, so this bill changes the state
designators to comply with the federal designators.
Representative Gatto told the members that the state uses the
terms distinguished, successful, deficient, or in crisis as
designators, while the federal designators are distinguished,
proficient, in improvement, corrective action, and
restructuring. This legislation would reduce the burden on the
schools, he reiterated.
CHAIR WILSON commented that the schools would likely welcome
this change.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO agreed. He said that the school districts
are supportive of this change.
Number 0349
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if the change of designations would
in any way impact on going tracking that has been conducted over
a period of time.
LES MORSE, Director, Assessment and Accountability, Department
of Education and Early Development, testified in support of HB
405 and answered questions from the members. In response to
Representative Seaton's question, he told the members that the
change in designators would have no impact. He explained that
the designator system was to come into effect and would have
first been required this fall. Mr. Morse clarified that
inconsistency problems associated with two different designators
would occur if this legislation does not pass.
Number 0451
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report CSHB 405(EDU), Version I,
out of committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB
405(EDU), Version I, was reported from the House Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee.
HB 333-PUBLIC SCHOOL ENDOWMENT
Number 0628
CHAIR WILSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 333, "An Act relating to an endowment for public
education; and providing for an effective date."
Number 0680
CLIFF STONE, Staff to Representative Dan Ogg, Alaska State
Legislature, testified on behalf of Representative Ogg, the
sponsor of HB 333. Mr. Stone pointed out that the committee
packet should include some talking points as well as a copy of
the fax sent to Don Bullock, Legislative Legal and Research
Services, regarding the conceptual amendments adopted by the
House Special Committee on Education. He also noted that the
committee should be in receipt of a possible conceptual
amendment to AS 37.14.110. Mr. Stone read the following from
the "Talking Points on CSHB 333":
This Bill endows the University of Alaska and the
Public School Trust Fund with land grants.
Each will receive a grant of undivided 2 percent
interest in all state domain land. Rights and
management will be retained by DNR. DNR will not owe
a heightened fiduciary duty to either the University
or the Education Trust Fund who each shall receive
receipts annually from their respective interests
after deducting contributions to the permanent fund
and deducting administrative/service fees, et cetera.
Receipts are limited to new receipts accruing to each
interest after the effective date of this act. In the
later sections of this bill it does rescind Senate
Bill 7.
MR. STONE recalled a question asked in the House Special
Committee on Education regarding whether the existing public
school trust fund be utilized instead of creating an endowment
trust fund. He explained that Eddy Jeans, Department of
Education and Early Development, said the aforementioned could
be done with different language. The conceptual amendment
required to accomplish that is at the bottom of the "Talking
Points on CSHB 333". Mr. Stone also recalled a question
regarding the transfer of an interest in state lands and mineral
rights to these trusts, as there was concern that it may violate
Section 6(i) of the Statehood Compact. The university indicated
that not to be the case, as does a 1964 attorney general's
opinion, which says, "The use of the words 'hereby granted'
signifies a present grant of lands to be thereafter identified
by selection. By virtue of that grant the state became at once
vested with the right of property in selected lands. It cannot
be divested of such a right."
Number 0905
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt CSHB 333(EDU), Version 23-
LS0991\C, as the working document. There being no objection,
CSHB 333(EDU) is before the committee.
MR. STONE related to the committee that the House Special
Committee on Education felt it was important to have an
applicability section as is found in Section 7. He pointed out
that "new" language wasn't added to that section because it
isn't defined. The definition for "new" could be as simple as
"a lease entered into or production or after this particular
date". However, the drafter noted that the aforementioned would
open some arguments with regard to what constitutes a lease
because a lease can be from two different pools of oil.
MR. STONE turned to House Special Committee on Education's
desire to conform the legislation to the sponsor's intent in [AS
14.40].507 to not sell land, but to receive revenue. This
change is on page 6 and meets the sponsor's intent that it's a
tenant in common and an undivided 2 percent for both the
university and the K-12 system. The new language specifies that
DNR doesn't owe the University of Alaska a heightened fiduciary
duty. Furthermore, page 6, lines 16-21, specifies that land
conveyed to the university or the education trust doesn't
include an interest in possession of land. The Department of
Natural Resources, upon a cursory review, is happy with this
section, as is Joe Beedle, University of Alaska. He directed
attention to page 5, line 28, which includes the following
language change: "receipts derived from the management of the
land conveyed" in order to meet the sponsor's intents.
Number 1155
MR. STONE recalled that many in the House Special Committee on
Education expressed concern with regard to how this legislation
interacts with the 25 percent that is constitutionally mandated
to go into the permanent fund from the sale of these leases and
royalties. Therefore, on page 5, line 31, the language "after
deducting contributions to the Alaska permanent fund that are
required by law" was included. To that same end on page 6,
lines 13-14, the language "after deducting contributions to the
Alaska permanent fund required by law and after deducting
administrative service fees, application fees, filing fees,
processing fees, or other similar fees" was added. The drafter
has assured the sponsor that those two areas won't upset the
constitutional mandate.
Number 1300
CHAIR WILSON moved that the committee adopt Amendment 1, as
follows:
Page 5, line 27:
Delete "equal shares"
Insert "three-fifths and two-fifths shares
respectively"
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO objected, and inquired as to the share of
the budget that K-12 and the university currently receive.
Number 1353
EDDY JEANS, School Finance and Facilities Section, Education
Support Services, Department of Education and Early Development,
said that he couldn't answer that.
CHAIR WILSON interjected that it's more than two-fifths and
three-fifths.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON highlighted that this legislation also
eliminates SB 7, which was the 250,000 acres to be transferred
to the university. Therefore, that land grant would be
eliminated. Representative Seaton inquired as to the balance of
that income.
Number 1435
REPRESENTATIVE DAN OGG, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of HB
333, explained that the intent was to replace the land grant
that was in SB 7 with the land grant proposed in HB 333 and
provide it to K-12 as well as the university. He pointed out
that the land grant under SB 7 hasn't been transferred, and
therefore the selections haven't been made. Furthermore, such a
transfer would be onerous because under the terms of SB 7 there
has to be an agreement between DNR and the university. This
fall the administration has put forth two proposals to the
university, but no agreement could be reached. Even if there
was agreement, the university would have to come before the
legislature for approval. Representative Ogg highlighted that
his proposal provides quite a savings. In essence, this
legislation would take the place of the land grant under SB 7.
With regard to what is lost, Representative Ogg opined that K-12
would gain. He explained that presently the public school trust
has a .5 percent of the current revenue stream and that fund is
at $275 million and will provide about $12 million to K-12 this
year. The university's land grant trust fund from existing land
has a balance of about $80 million. Representative Ogg related
his understanding that [Amendment 1] would increase K-12 portion
at a greater rate than the university.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if [Amendment 1] is a reasonable
balance against 250,000 acres.
REPRESENTATIVE OGG recalled that when the legislation referred
to 1 percent, Mr. Beedle believed that the 1 percent over time
would be better for the university than the 250,000 acres.
Number 1637
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO withdrew his objection to Amendment 1.
CHAIR WILSON, upon hearing no further objections, announced that
Amendment 1 was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked if Amendment 1 would change the
language necessary on page 5, line 22, where is says "equally
for the support of public elementary and secondary education."
Representative Coghill explained that he wanted to be sure that
if the intention is divide what goes between post secondary and
secondary education would there be any discussion with regard to
primary and secondary education.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON opined that Amendment 1 would designate
that three-fifths of the 4 percent would go into this education
trust fund and wouldn't impact the split [between primary and
secondary education].
Number 1741
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 2, which would: "replace in the bill where applicable
language creating an education trust fund and board with the
existing public school trust fund and public school trust fund
advisory board (AS 37.14.110-170)."
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to Mr. Stone's earlier testimony
that there is no need to create an education trust fund because
the existing public school trust fund can be utilized for this
purpose. This legislation would merely provide another revenue
stream into the existing public school trust fund.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL removed his objection.
Number 1798
CHAIR WILSON, upon determining there was no further objection,
announced that Amendment 2 was adopted.
Number 1810
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report CSHB 333(EDU), as amended,
out of committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB
333(HES) was reported from the House Health, Education and
Social Services Standing Committee.
HB 440-PIONEERS' HOMES/VETERANS' HOMES
Number 1890
CHAIR WILSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 440, "An Act relating to the Alaska Pioneers'
Home, and the Alaska Veterans' Home; relating to eligibility for
admission to the Alaska Pioneers' Home and Alaska Veterans'
Home; relating to state veterans' home facilities; making
conforming amendments; and providing for an effective date."
Number 1918
DENNIS DeWITT, Special Staff Assistant, Office of the Governor,
testified in support of HB 440 and answered questions of the
members. He told the members that HB 440 would allow the
administration to proceed with the conversion of the Palmer
Pioneers' Home to a veterans home. The [existing] pioneers'
home waiting list would be used to fill the beds in the home.
The population would be 75 percent veterans and the remaining 25
percent would be filled from the waiting list.
Number 1982
MR. DeWITT explained that there is a 20-year history in
implementing a way for Alaska's veterans to get their veterans'
benefits. He has been involved in the process for the last 14
years, he added. The administration has worked closely with the
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). Through this process
it was determined that the Palmer Pioneers' Home was the best
option in providing a veteran home with the least impact on the
pioneer home system.
MR. DeWITT said that last August the VA sent a team to tour both
the Anchorage and Palmer Pioneers' homes and provided the state
with suggestions in implementing a VA home. One of their
primary interest was the pioneers' homes approach to geriatric
care. Mr. DeWitt emphasized that the VA found the pioneers'
homes program very good. It was explained that Alaska uses a
social model as opposed to the traditional medical model used in
most veteran homes [in the United States]. The primary
difference is that in the social model an effort is made to
consider an individual's care and needs, and implement them in a
home-like setting for the rest of the resident's life or time in
the facility. The medical model emphasizes caring for specific
medical needs in more of a nursing home setting, rather than an
assisted living home. It took a day and a half for the VA team
to understand what was being done and appreciate the high
quality program that was being provided in the pioneers' homes.
When the team left Alaska the members were saying that they
wanted to take this program [as a model] and implement it
throughout the veterans homes system. Mr. DeWitt summarized
that the administration felt very proud of the program being
offered in Alaska.
Number 2112
MR. DeWITT said the VA then sent its architect to look at the
Palmer Pioneers' Home to see what changes would need to be made
to ensure it meets federal standards. The heating and plumbing
systems need to be brought up to standards that will provide a
functional building for 20 years into the future. The capital
expenditures required to meet these standards would be shared
with the federal government who would pay 65 percent, while the
state will pay 35 percent of the upgrade. As the transition
into a veterans home proceeds those individuals who are veterans
will be eligible to receive $26.95 per day reimbursement for
their cost of care. For those who are currently paying for care
at the pioneers' home out of their own pocket that would mean
about an $800 per month offset of their payment. For those who
are being subsidized fully by the pioneers' home, that would be
an offset of about $800 per month from the general fund. That
is a strong reason to move in this direction, he commented.
MR. DeWITT told the members that the administration is about 99
percent completed with its negotiations. He noted that there
are currently some points to be clarified with the under
secretary of the VA which would confirm the administration's
understanding of the status of the veterans' home. A
preliminary response confirms that the VA is in agreement and
that as soon as legislation has been approved the state will
move forward. The funding for this project is in the fast track
supplemental budget bill which will provide a 4 to 6 month jump
in moving forward. The federal match funding should be
available by October when the state will be reimbursed, he
added.
Number 2205
MR. DeWITT shared that the administration is working on
transition issues. He emphasized that HB 440 has language that
guarantees that no one in the pioneers' home now will be
required to move because of the change from pioneers' home to
veterans' home status. Mr. DeWitt explained that the
administration told the VA that it believes there will be about
a five-year transition period; however, the VA believes it
should be longer. So at this period in time the administration
has an open transition period, he added. The general operating
standards that are currently in place will continue, but there
may be a few slight accommodations to ensure all the VA criteria
is met. Mr. DeWitt stated that the administration is
comfortable that the estimated $3.5 million capital construction
appropriation will be adequate to accomplish necessary changes.
In summary, Mr. DeWitt explained that the main reason the
administration looked at the Palmer Pioneers' Home for a VA home
is that [the VA would allow] Alaska to have a 79 bed home. The
Palmer facility has 83 beds and the VA is comfortable allowing
the extra [4] beds.
Number 2364
ED KNOEBEL, Legion Post 27, testified on HB 440 and asked
questions concerning the bill. He said that he understands that
the average reimbursement rate by the VA is approximately $800
per month for care in a VA home and the state will pickup the
rest of the cost. If a person is drawing social security will
the individual be allowed to keep those funds or would it be
used for payment of care [in the home].
Number 2400
JOHN VOWELL, Director, Division of Alaska Longevity Programs,
Department of Health and Social Services, testified on HB 440
and answered questions. The VA considers social security as
income and that income is used toward the cost of care for that
veteran, he said.
MR. KNOEBEL replied that it was his understanding that the money
received over the $800 would be available for the veterans' own
use.
TAPE 04-21, SIDE B
Number 2371
CHAIR WILSON commented that she believes that the $800 figure is
what the VA provides for payment for a veteran to stay in the
home, but that is not the actual cost of staying in a pioneers
home. The cost of staying in a pioneers' home is quite a bit
more than that amount.
MR. KNOEBEL asked about the age for which a veteran could reside
at the home. He commented that he knows of a completely
disabled veteran who is not yet 65 years of age and needs to be
accommodated.
MR. DeWITT replied that the Pioneers' Home System offers very
good geriatric care. In this proposal the 65-age requirement
has been maintained because the type of care available is
geriatric nature.
MR. KNOEBEL asked for clarification that a veteran who receives
$850 per month in social security benefits [which will be used
to pay for a veteran to stay in the home] will also have the
state reimburse the rest of the cost.
MR. DeWITT responded that the lowest cost of care in the home is
about $2,100 per month. So the contribution by a veteran would
be similar to anyone else using the facility.
Number 2305
MR. KNOEBEL asked if a veteran is currently in another pioneers'
home, would it be necessary for the veteran to move to the
Palmer home to received these benefits.
MR. DeWITT replied that under this proposal the veteran would
have to be in the Palmer home to receive these benefits. The
ability to house folks in other homes that are not veteran homes
is not achievable under any options that are before the
administration. He explained that there was a prior proposal to
make that option available, but the administration has not been
able to bring that to fruition. This legislation is an effort
to put a veterans' home in Alaska, he stated.
Number 2248
CHARLIE HUGGINS, Director, Office of Veteran Affairs, Department
of Military and Veterans Affairs, testified in support of HB
440. He told the members that it is important to note that
Alaska is the only state without a veterans' home. In his
conversations with veterans around the state the number one
topic of concern by veterans, other than concern about personal
medical problems, is the need for a veterans' home, he said.
There is a sense of delight that soon there will be a veterans'
home in Alaska. It is important to note that the American
Legion, the Disabled American Veterans, and the Veterans of
Foreign Wars have all voted to support the Palmer Veterans' Home
concept, he said. There have been many hollow promises of what
would happen and now there is a course of action for the Palmer
home. Mr. Huggins emphasized that 100 percent of the veterans
are very concerned about pioneers, so the fact that 25 percent
of the residents in the Palmer home will be pioneers is
important.
Number 2170
MR. HUGGINS shared a conversation he had at a McDonalds in
Juneau where a man was concerned that his brother would have to
move to the veterans' home in Palmer. He pointed out that is
the beauty of this plan, in that no one is required to move to
other facilities. He thanked the legislature for supporting
this plan.
Number 2151
CHAIR WILSON asked for clarification that veterans can be in any
home across the state, but the VA will not pay the approximate
$800 toward the veteran's care.
MR. DeWITT replied that is correct. He explained that there are
now pioneers who are veterans. These individuals will have an
option of residing in any of these homes.
Number 2111
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO pointed to the sectional analysis of HB
440, dated March 22, 2004, page 3, Section 24, which amends AS
47.55 by adding a definition section. He read the following
text:
The term "veteran" is defined to mean a person who has
not been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces
of the United States.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said that according to that definition he
would qualify even though he has never served in the armed
forces of the United States.
MR. DeWITT replied that what Representative Gatto read is a
short definition of the bill. He asked for the members to turn
to page 12, lines 22 through 25. The full definition reads as
follows:
(5) "veteran" means a person who has been discharged
from the armed forces of the United States, including
the Alaska National Guard or the Alaska Territorial
Guard; the discharge from the armed forces must be
other than dishonorable.
Number 1962
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he believes the word "honorably" needs
to be in the definition.
MR. DeWITT replied that in working with the VA and veteran
groups on the definition there was some concern. Originally the
definition was borrowed from other sections of law that required
service of 180 days and several other requirements. It was
pointed out that if a veteran were in for a shorter time,
wounded in action, and then discharged, that individual would
not be covered. He explained that this definition covers the
greatest number of veterans that the VA would call a veteran.
He emphasized that the administration worked with all the
veterans' groups to address their concerns of the definition.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked how many kinds of discharges there
are and if there is a worse discharge than "dishonorable."
MR. DeWITT replied that the number and kinds of discharges
depends on who an individual is speaking with, which is why the
definition is worded as it is. He explained that he has been
told that there is "honorable" and "dishonorable" [from one
source], but also [from another source] that there are other
honorable discharges that are not dishonorable. There was a
general consensus that as long as the discharge was not
dishonorable these individuals should qualify as a veteran.
Number 1863
CHAIR WILSON commented that she believes there are medical
discharges.
MR. DeWITT submitted that there is an on-going debate that those
discharges are other than honorable. He emphasized that the
administration's intent was to include the broadest definition
that would be allowed by the VA. He pointed out that he
believes it is important that the Alaska National Guard and the
Alaska Territorial Guard be included in this legislation since
these are not included in the federal definition. Both groups
would be allowed veteran benefits, but without specific
reference to the two groups they would not be included.
Number 1812
CHAIR WILSON pointed to page 6, lines 29 and 30, and page 7,
lines 1 and 3. She explained that she received numerous calls
from local municipalities who were concerned about language in
the bill that refers to "maintenance", but not "operation".
With the decrease in state funding to municipalities and
decreased revenue to the state there was concern, she said.
Chair Wilson said for example, many communities have seen less
and less maintenance in harbors, so there is an element of
uncertainty.
CHAIR WILSON moved Amendment 1, 23-GH2085\I.1, Mischel, 3/23/04,
which read as follows:
Page 6, line 29, following "Maintenance":
Insert "and operation"
Page 6, line 30:
Delete "The"
Insert "Except as otherwise provided in this
subsection, the"
Following "maintain":
Insert "and operate"
Page 6, line 31 following "Sitka":
Insert ", Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau,
Ketchikan, Palmer,"
Following "and":
Delete "at"
Page 7, line 1, following "maintain":
Insert "and operate"
Page 7, line 3, following "maintained":
Insert "and operated"
CHAIR WILSON explained that this amendment would ensure that the
maintenance and operation of the pioneers' and veterans' homes
would be taken care of by the state.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected for purposes of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked if this amendment would change the
fiscal note since this bill really only addresses the one
veteran home in Palmer.
Number 1727
CHAIR WILSON responded that this amendment does not change the
fiscal note. She emphasized that she discussed that point with
the bill drafter in Legislative Legal and Research Services
because she did not want to suggest changes that would
jeopardize the purpose of the bill. Chair Wilson added that
this language provides clarity and security to the communities
who have pioneers' and veterans' homes.
Number 1700
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked Mr. DeWitt to comment on any
implications this amendment might have on the bill.
MR. DeWITT commented that the administration's concern is that
there would not be a section inserted in the bill that would be
internally inconsistent. He said that as he reads this
amendment he does not see any significant difference in what the
administration is trying to accomplish.
Number 1660
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF referred to page 6, line 31, and page 7,
line 1, where it says, "other sites designated by the
commissioner of health and social services." He asked if
Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan, and Palmer are already
designated by the commissioner.
CHAIR WILSON responded that those communities are designated.
MR. DeWITT commented that those communities are where current
pioneers' homes are sited.
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked if that language doesn't already
address that portion of the amendment.
CHAIR WILSON agreed that it probably does, but many of the
municipalities felt more comfortable with its names included in
the language.
Number 1618
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO pointed out that by mentioning the
communities by name it will lock in the state to maintain and
operate the homes whether they are occupied or not.
CHAIR WILSON responded that it would be necessary to come back
to the legislature to change the law. She clarified that the
communities want changes to done through the legislative
process.
Number 1572
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF posed a hypothetical example where residents
of the pioneers' home in Fairbanks voluntarily moved to Palmer.
If this amendment passes it would be necessary to come back to
the legislature to delete the maintenance and operation of the
Fairbanks pioneers' home from state law.
CHAIR WILSON agreed with Representative Wolf's assumption.
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF commented that he has a problem with that
concept.
CHAIR WILSON said that she understands Representative Wolf's
concern. Some of these homes are old and may have to be
dismantled at some time in the future, but she said she believes
it is important to discuss it openly as is being done now.
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said he objects to Amendment 1.
Number 1506
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if this amendment is in response to
the move of the ferry office.
MR. DeWITT commented that there are no residents of the
pioneers' homes that are ferry office employees [laughter].
CHAIR WILSON explained that she believes some municipalities are
concerned about the possibility that it might be necessary for
them to take over funding of the homes, especially in light of
the reduced revenue sharing.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL commented that in reading the bill it
never crossed his mind that the state would not operate the
homes as well as maintain them. He said he believes this
language is somewhat redundant.
NUMBER 1441
CHAIR WILSON reminded the members of a comment the governor made
at the meeting in Fairbanks when he was asked what would happen
if the legislature does not produce a fiscal plan. The governor
commented that he would go to plan 2 which named the Sitka
Pioneers' Home as one that would cease to exist. That comment
has made people nervous, she said.
Number 1416
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said that he does not like to see the state
being forced to operate and maintain a building that has no
occupants. He said he disagrees with this concept.
CHAIR WILSON pointed to page 8, lines 6 through 9, where it says
the following:
(e) The department may engage in activities directed
to increase revenue from a home. These activities may
include the lease of excess bed or floor space, up to
50 percent of the total floor space in a home, or
lease of space or buildings that are not in use or are
underutilized.
Number 1346
CHAIR WILSON pointed out that this is new verbiage that has not
been in statute before now. The state is looking ahead, she
added.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Cissna, Kapsner,
Coghill, Seaton, and Wilson voted in favor of Amendment 1.
Representatives Gatto and Wolf voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 1 was adopted by a vote of 5-2.
Number 1275
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA moved to report CSHB 440 as amended out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 440 (HES) was
reported out of the House Health, Education and Social Services
Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting
was adjourned at 4:21 p.m.