HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE April 30, 1998 3:10 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Con Bunde, Chairman Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman Representative Brian Porter Representative Fred Dyson Representative J. Allen Kemplen Representative Tom Brice MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Al Vezey COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 434 "An Act requiring drug testing for applicants for and recipients of assistance under the Alaska temporary assistance program; and providing for an effective date." - PASSED CSHB 434(HES) FROM COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 323 "An Act relating to the calculation of credited service in the public employees' retirement system for noncertificated employees of school districts, regional educational attendance areas, and state boarding schools; and providing for an effective date." - PASSED CSHB 323(HES) FROM COMMITTEE * HOUSE BILL NO. 332 "An Act relating to adoptive placements by the Department of Health and Social Services." - PASSED HB 332 FROM COMMITTEE SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 340 "An Act relating to child abuse and neglect, child-in-need-of-aid proceedings, delinquency hearings, and review of cases involving certain children who are in the custody of the state; relating to the crime of endangering the welfare of a minor; relating to disclosure of information about children and their families; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 15, 17 - 19, and 22, Alaska Child in Need of Aid Rules; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 12, 21, 23, and 25, Alaska Delinquency Rules; and providing for an effective date." - PASSED CSSSHB340(HES) FROM COMMITTEE (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 434 SHORT TITLE: DRUG TESTING OF WELFARE RECIPIENTS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) ROKEBERG Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 2/18/98 2354 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 2/18/98 2354 (H) HES, JUDICIARY 4/23/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 4/23/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 4/28/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 323 SHORT TITLE: PERS CREDIT FOR NONCERTIFICATED EMPLOYEES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) BRICE, Kubina Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 1/15/98 2054 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 1/15/98 2054 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, HES 2/11/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 2/11/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 4/24/98 (H) L&C AT 9:15 AM CAPITOL 17 4/24/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 4/24/98 3237 (H) L&C RPT CS(L&C) NT 6DP 4/24/98 3238 (H) DP: COWDERY, BRICE, RYAN, KUBINA, 4/24/98 3238 (H) HUDSON, ROKEBERG 4/24/98 3238 (H) FISCAL NOTE (ADM) 4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 332 SHORT TITLE: ADOPTION PREFERENCE FOR RELATIVES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) JAMES Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 1/20/98 2089 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 1/20/98 2089 (H) HES 4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 340 SHORT TITLE: TESTIMONY AT CINA HEARINGS; CHILD ABUSE SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HODGINS, Dyson Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 1/21/98 2100 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 1/21/98 2100 (H) HES, JUDICIARY 3/12/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 3/12/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 4/03/98 2869 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-REFERRALS 4/03/98 2869 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 4/03/98 2869 (H) HES, JUDICIARY 4/21/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 4/21/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 4/23/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 4/23/98 (H) MINUTE(HES) 4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 WITNESS REGISTER GUY BELL, Director Division of Retirement and Benefits Department of Administration P.O. Box 110203 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0203 Telephone: (907) 465-4471 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute for HB 323. BILL CHURCH, Retirement Supervisor Division of Retirement and Benefits Department of Administration P.O. Box 110203 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0203 Telephone: (907) 465-4460 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute for HB 323. JOHN CYR, President NEA-Alaska 114 Second Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 586-3090 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute for HB 323. MARY BISE, President Totem Association of Educational Support Personnel 249 Fall Leaf Circle Anchorage, Alaska 99504 Telephone: (907) 333-6249 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 323(HES). BARBARA TUCK HUFFNESS, Director Governmental and Legislative Affairs Teamsters Local 959 520 East 34th Avenue Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: (907) 565-8236 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 323(HES). PATRICK LOUNSBURY, Legislative Secretary to Representative Jeannette James Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 102 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3843 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 332 on behalf of Representative James. KATHY TIBBLES, Administrator Social Services Program Division of Family and Youth Services Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110630 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630 Telephone: (907) 465-3023 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 332. GARY CADD, Researcher for Representative Mark Hodgins Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 110 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: (907) 465-3779 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for SSHB 340. DIANA BUFFINGTON, President Childrens' Rights Council of Alaska 317 Maple Kodiak, Alaska 99615 Telephone: (907) 486-2290 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SSHB 340. JEANINE REEP, Assistant Attorney General Human Services Section Civil Division Department of Law P.O. Box 110300 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300 Telephone: (907) 465-3600 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SSHB 340. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-51, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN CON BUNDE called the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:10 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde, Porter, Dyson, Kemplen and Brice. Representative Green arrived at 3:12 p.m. Representative Vezey was absent. HB 434 - DRUG TESTING OF WELFARE RECIPIENTS Number 0039 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first bill to come before the committee was HB 434, "An Act requiring drug testing for applicants for and recipients of assistance under the Alaska temporary assistance program; and providing for an effective date." Number 0050 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON made a motion to rescind the committee's action on Amendment 3. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was objection. He explained the passage of Amendment 3 had added a large fiscal note to the bill. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented he believes the intent of the amendment is admirable, but the near compulsory language adds a fiscal note that he is not comfortable with at this time. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was any objection to rescinding Amendment 3. Hearing none, Amendment 3 was rescinded. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to pass CSHB 434(HES) with individual recommendations and the pending fiscal notes. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was objection. Hearing none CSHB 434(HES) passed out of the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. HB 323 - PERS CREDIT FOR NONCERTIFICATED EMPLOYEES Number 0186 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE noted the next bill before the committee was HB 323, "An Act relating to the calculation of credited service in the public employees' retirement system for noncertificated employees of school districts, regional educational attendance areas, and state boarding schools; and providing for an effective date." Number 0195 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to adopt proposed committee substitute 0-LS1350\F, Cramer, 4/29/98, as the working draft. Number 0218 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected for discussion purposes. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained, "What we we're doing with the committee substitute is allowing individuals who are noncertificated employees the ability to opt into the program which would frankly, give them an increase in their benefits. For that increase, they get a full year of benefits for the length of work they might participate in. Some employees work nine months and only get nine months credit towards retirement. The problem with that is they end up working 40 years for a 30 year retirement. This would just give them the ability to increase their contribution rate to cover the months that they're not working so for a 30-year retirement, they get 30-year ...." CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if it would be comparable to the retirement program for certificated employees. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said it would be very close to what a certificated employee would have, with possibly the difference being that certificated employees have the option to have their retirement benefits spread over a 12-month period versus a 9-month period. This legislation does not deal with that issue. Number 0344 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked what the minimum would be that an individual would have to work for a year of retirement benefit. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE deferred that question to the representative from the Division of Retirement and Benefits. Number 0398 GUY BELL, Director, Division of Retirement and Benefits, Department of Administration, introduced Bill Church from the division. Number 0414 BILL CHURCH, Retirement Supervisor, Division of Retirement and Benefits, Department of Administration, responded the minimum would be 172 days for a full year of service. CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood there would no negative actuarial impact on the retirement system if HB 323 is passed. MR. CHURCH said that was correct. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if the new contribution rate be mandatory or optional if HB 323 were to pass? Number 0450 MR. CHURCH replied it is an option under 0-LS1350\F. He added that individuals currently employed would have 180 days to opt up to the alternate calculation of service and obviously the higher rate of contributions and new employees would have 90 days from the date of employment to opt up to the higher coverage. CHAIRMAN BUNDE said, "And the purpose of the option, I'm just guessing, would be people who view that profession as temporary versus those that might view that work as a career." MR. CHURCH replied certainly those individuals who elect the option will view it as being more favorable to them. He explained, "Someone just starting off, they can look at it and say 'I can work 30 years and retire' whatever age that may be. If someone's right out of high school, 30 years might put them at 48 years old with the ability to retire at that point in time as opposed to currently, the tiers for normal retirement age, not service based, is age 60, so to them certainly that would be a clear advantage." Number 0512 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN noted the department had a fiscal note of $116,000 for updating computers. He asked if the division would be getting a system that would allow this to happen and would the division derive other benefits from updating their system. MR. CHURCH said the division is currently running two different systems; the existing system and a new system that's coming on line. He explained the new system would not be on line in time, so the division would only have to update one system. He said the division would have to create the ability of the system to be able to recognize a different group of employees, to be able to credit their service properly and be able to apply the right contribution value that comes in. Based on all these changes, it has to be for both systems and the fiscal note reflects the costs estimated by the data processing staff. Number 0600 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that funds to upgrade the computer system wouldn't come out of the general fund, but instead out of the earnings of the retirement system. MR. BELL confirmed the funding source is the public employees' retirement account. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were further questions for the division? Hearing none, he asked Mr. Cyr to come before the committee to present his remarks. Number 0635 JOHN CYR, President, NEA-Alaska, testified in support of CSHB 323. He said the classified employees in the 53 or 54 school districts across the state represented by NEA-Alaska have worked long and hard and view this as an equity issue. He said NEA-Alaska has looked at a number of different ways to help provide a type of retirement system that would secure benefits for them at the end of their career. He explained that many of the employees have been put in the position of having had at one point year-round jobs and their jobs have been cut back and scaled back as the district's ability to provide that resource lessened. He stated this is of critical importance to the employees represented by NEA-Alaska and in his opinion, the language in the proposed committee substitute is fair by placing the burden on those employees who opt into it to pay for that added benefit. He urged the committee to pass the proposed committee substitute from committee. Number 0740 CHAIRMAN BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the wishes of the committee. Number 0750 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 323, version 0- LS1350\F, Cramer, 4/2998, with individual recommendations from committee. There being no objection, CSHB 323(HES) passed out of the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted that even though CSHB 323(HES) had passed from committee, Mary Biss wished to present her remarks from Anchorage on HB 323. Number 0769 MARY BISE, President, Totem Association of Educational Support Personnel, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, and urged the committee to vote for equality in the state law and the PERS retirement system for noncertificated school district personnel. She said this bill will reinstate the equity enjoyed by these employees prior to July 1, 1976 when they did receive a full year credit. She said these employees should receive the same one year of retirement benefits for one year of work as do the teachers. Number 0840 BARBARA TUCK HUFFNESS, Director, Governmental and Legislative Affairs, Teamsters Local 959, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She said the Teamsters Local 959 represents the Anchorage School District's approximately 400 noncertificated employees, who strongly support this legislation. HB 332 - ADOPTION PREFERENCE FOR RELATIVES Number 0860 CHAIRMAN BUNDE indicated the committee would hear HB 332, "An Act relating to adoptive placements by the Department of Health and Social Services," sponsored by Representative James. Number 0890 PATRICK LOUNSBURY, Legislative Secretary to Representative Jeannette James, came before the committee to explain the legislation. He stated HB 332 is a concept that seems to make good sense. It simply allows that a blood relative could be first in line to adopt a child that is in the state's care for placement. Mr. Lounsbury pointed out that it is consistent with the national trend regarding open adoption procedures and it was actually inspired by the Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA) of 1978. He stated the legislation has also been used as model legislation in other countries around the world. Mr. Lounsbury stated, "In all cases that I've come across, it's been a mid to upper 90 percent rate of successful placement rates." He said just knowing where you come from and who you are can give you a great piece of mind and it's a piece of mind that a lot of us take for granted." He said the confidentiality and closed adoption procedures that exist have prevented many people from knowing this very basic information. Even genetic information such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes, et cetera has been restricted. Some of the adoption procedures have been arbitrary and capricious. He informed the committee of an instance in Montreal, Canada, where infants were placed according to their religious affiliation. Open adoption has proven fruitful for both the biological parents and the children. Mr. Lounsbury stated he believes that Alaska needs to keep moving forward in this arena. He noted there currently is a provision for kinship placement in foster cases; this legislation would allow for permanent placement. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if the legislation would memorialize in statute what is pretty much a common practice. Number 1030 MR. LOUNSBURY responded that it is a national trend. Number 1061 KATHY TIBBLES, Administrator, Social Services Program, Division of Family and Youth Services, Department of Health & Social Services, came before the committee. She explained that the current practice is placement with relatives whenever there is a viable relative available and willing to take a child. She said the division believes HB 332 is a good bill and the right thing to do. Number 1072 CHAIRMAN BUNDE indicated there were no further witnesses to testify and closed the public hearing. Number 1080 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 332 out of committee. There being no objection, HB 332 moved out of the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. SSHB 340 - TESTIMONY AT CINA HEARINGS; CHILD ABUSE Number 1085 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 340, "An Act relating to child abuse and neglect, child-in-need-of-aid proceedings, delinquency hearings, and review of cases involving certain children who are in the custody of the state; relating to the crime of endangering the welfare of a minor; relating to disclosure of information about children and their families; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 15, 17 - 19, and 22, Alaska Child in Need of Aid Rules; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 12, 21, 23, and 25, Alaska Delinquency Rules; and providing for an effective date." Gary Cadd, Researcher for Representative Mark Hodgins, Sponsor, came before the committee to explain SSHB 340. Number 1128 GARY CADD, Researcher for Representative Mark Hodgins, Alaska State Legislature, said HB 340 implements an enforceable penalty for false reporting of child abuse or neglect and endangering the welfare of a child with respect to intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance, gives notice to the child's grandparents, child's current and previous foster parents and the child's health care providers of all hearings and an opportunity to be heard at all hearings for a child in need of aid. This legislation also gives a foster parent or grandparent the right to disclose confidential or privileged information about a child in need of aid to a government official or their employee. The court cannot find a child in need of aid solely on the basis that the child's family is poor, lacks adequate housing or lives a lifestyle that is different from the generally accepted lifestyle of the community. Number 1188 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked at what point does endangering the welfare of a child with respect to intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance become a factor. For example, would providing drugs to a 14-year-old child be endangering the welfare of a child? MR. CADD said the legislation relates to the person in charge of the child. CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood that; however, if a child is born with alcohol in its bloodstream, is the parent then guilty of endangering the welfare of the child. Number 1231 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said in his opinion, the parent is absolutely endangering the welfare of the child, but he didn't think that was covered under law. CHAIRMAN BUNDE said it is for controlled substances, but not alcohol. He said for the record, giving a child intoxicating liquor after it is a viable human being, born or present on this earth is considered endangering the welfare of a child. He stated, "I think I've heard from you say that yes, at any time you've given a child intoxicating liquor, you are endangering the welfare of a child." MR. CADD replied, "Yes sir, you would be." Number 1276 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked in which section of the bill is that stated? MR. CADD responded Section 1, page 2, line 2, "with criminal negligence, has the child in the person's care and the person's physical or mental condition is impaired as a result of the introduction of an intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance into the person's body;". REPRESENTATIVE PORTER commented that's not quite the same; that language indicates it's a crime if the person in charge of the child is impaired by drugs or alcohol. The question was is it a crime if the mother drinks and then imparts that alcohol to her newly born child. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON interjected that his comment may have caused the confusion in that Chairman Bunde had asked the question is that harming the child and Representative Dyson had responded absolutely it's harm to the child; however, he did not believe there is anything in the law or in this legislation that makes it a criminal act. CHAIRMAN BUNDE conceded he had misread the sponsor statement and had jumped to conclusions. He noted there were individuals wishing to testify via teleconference and asked Diana Buffington to present her comments at this time. Number 1382 DIANA BUFFINGTON, President, Childrens' Rights Council of Alaska, testified via teleconference from Kodiak in support of SSHB 340. She advised the committee that a lot of mothers give their children little bits of alcohol to help through the teething process. She said according to the Executive Director of the Child Welfare League of America, 62 percent of allegations of abuse and neglect are false allegations and for that reason she believes it's important this legislation be passed. She noted that according to the Director of the Division of Family & Youth Services, there are no false allegations, which she certainly takes issue with. A number of false allegations are made specifically during custody and domestic violence situations where women have been enticed to make those types of allegations in order to gain control and seek sole custody of their children. She advised there are protocols in practice across the United States which the agency could put into place and by simply questioning the person reporting the abuse and neglect, the division could easily determine if it's a false allegation or an allegation that needs further investigation. She said false allegations lead to other investigations, the uninvestigation or simply having children slip through the cracks because the agency is unable to attend to all allegations. She remarked that for far too long the agency has treated foster parents as child care providers or babysitters and should recognize that foster parents are actively involved or have been involved in a child's life and it's important their testimony concerning that child be brought out in a hearing. CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Ms. Buffington for her comments and asked Jeanine Reep to come before the committee. CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated there are a number of people that are required by law to report suspected child abuse and wondered if anything in this legislation would have a dampening effect on that requirement. Number 1545 JEANINE REEP, Assistant Attorney General, Human Services Section, Civil Division, Department of Law, responded there's a high likelihood this legislation could have a dampening effect on all reports of harm. It's been her experience over the past 10 years that people already are hesitant to make reports of harm, often thinking they don't have enough facts. She indicated there are a number reports of harm that turn out to be unsubstantiated and she suspected that social workers had a protocol for screening reports of harm to determine the gravity, the urgency and the basis for the report. There are situations, usually in divorce cases, of parents frequently calling in reports which are investigated to the degree needed. It's pretty clear if there are a number of unsubstantiated reports, the case isn't going too far with the Division of Family & Youth Services. She said simply making a report really doesn't benefit anyone if there's no harm. Number 1607 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was a semantic problem in that according to Ms. Buffington the division says there are no false reports in Alaska, yet Ms. Reep said there are a number of unsubstantiated reports. He asked "Would it be easier if we got some common agreement on a definition here and on a unsubstantiated report is still a report but it's if you want to look at it from their side, it's false because it didn't indicate any harm." MS. REEP agreed that it is an issue of semantics, but it's not a false report. She thought there may be a small percentage of totally false reports, but that more often if a report is unsubstantiated, it is not necessarily a false report. She noted there's a legal problem in determining what's false in that someone could have a concern with hearing a constant screaming child upstairs and often calls in a report of harm, which should be done. It could be the child is very difficult to manage and the parent is acting appropriately; it's not a child in need of aid, but neither is it a false report. Number 1666 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he believed it was the sponsor's intention to deal only with the knowingly, spurious and for an evil purpose situations, most of which he thought arise out of spite; e.g., custody cases. He said whatever the percentage, the department has to screen through these reports and in his opinion they do a pretty good job. However, there are laws against tripping a fire alarm and knowingly calling the fire department just because a person enjoys seeing the fire engine. It takes a lot of resources to respond to the report, just as it takes DFYS resources to respond to all the reports of harm. Again, it is his belief the sponsor is after individuals who knowingly make a false report for another purpose besides the child. He did, however, think these cases would be very difficult to prosecute. MS. REEP agreed these cases would be difficult to prosecute. Number 1731 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER views this as a deterrent to the second knowingly false report. He said it's a very high standard to meet in "knowing I know that what I'm saying is false" - it's a state of mind and it's difficult, but it is not difficult the second time the person makes the same report - once the individual has been advised not to do it again, there's almost prima facie evidence and the individual is guilty of making a false report. So, to the extent it does require "knowingly" he didn't see it anywhere close to having a "chilling effect" on reports of harm. MS. REEP, in response to Representative Dyson's question regarding the difficulty of prosecuting these cases, said it would be difficult to prosecute anytime there's gray areas. There are many reports that may not be unsubstantiated - there's an in between where the department isn't really sure. For example, a mother may think her child has been sexually abused and even though there isn't any evidence of it, the mother may genuinely feel that and should not be criminally punished with a Class C felony if she's mistaken. She also believed a great deal of manpower would have to be expended to prosecute these cases. Number 1840 CHAIRMAN BUNDE observed there were numerous, as well as substantial fiscal notes. MR. CADD said the Criminal Division had submitted a $235,000 fiscal note and he questioned if there weren't going to be any or many of these cases, why the $235,000 fiscal note. Secondly, when a case comes forward, it will be different than a mother thinking her daughter has been sexually abused; this is a knowing situation, as Representative Porter had indicated, where someone maliciously causes a problem. He believed that when something like this comes forward, it's going to be easily recognizable; something that can be prosecuted because there won't be a gray area, and if there is a gray area, perhaps it's not a "knowingly" situation. Number 1877 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented that a nontrue accusation also causes the victim of the accusation to have to expend time and resources. The citizens suffer a bit - sometimes quite a bit - from the false accusations and he agrees with the sponsor's statement that "if the papers report once or twice a year that somebody got publicly hung up by their thumbs for trying to jerk people around with false accusations, I think that will have a chilling effect on some of the spurious ones." It's an absolute judgment call. Number 1921 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE observed this would still allow for anonymous reporting; if anyone was going to "knowingly" give a false report, it would obviously be done anonymously. MS. REEP responded that was certainly a possibility. Number 1935 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE presented a hypothetical situation: A divorce case and the noncustodial parent has some serious concerns about the custodial parent - there are stories coming from the child, but not enough information to substantiate any of the stories. If the noncustodial parent makes a report, it could definitely look very spurious but someone with a true concern for the child may get hung up with this law. He said there needs to be some middle ground so a parent with honest concerns can have them addressed. MR. CADD said in the process of putting this section of the bill together, he had talked with law enforcement personnel and citizens in the Kenai in which a situation was brought up of two neighbors with a common driveway who had a right-of-way problem. One of the neighbors was continually turning the other neighbor in for child abuse which of course was causing problems for the department who was having to check out the reports. He explained it was these types of situations the legislation was aimed at; Representative Hodgins is not looking at creating a new class of criminal. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted the fiscal note prepared by the Department of Law, Criminal Division indicates this particular area is too speculative to even assign any associated cost; the large fiscal note deals with the other felony - intoxication. MS. REEP advised she works in the human services division and handles children in need of aid cases; not criminal cases so she is not the person to address the criminal issues involved with this legislation. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were additional individuals to testify. There being none, Chairman Bunde closed public testimony. Representative Dyson said he had an additional question for the sponsor's representative. Number 2055 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON referred to page 7, line 25, and asked why the sponsor chose to use "may" instead of "shall disclose information regarding a case...." MR. CADD said to be quite truthful, he thought "shall" had been in the original draft which was the sponsor's intent, but in the rewrite it got changed to "may". REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented that in working with the Department of Law on HB 375, he prevailed in having it read "shall"; however, the department was concerned with being forced to give information to people who didn't want it, so the phrase "as appropriate" was added. He suggested amending the language in SSHB 340 to read, "A state or municipal agency or employee shall disclose appropriate information regarding a case ...." CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if Representative Dyson wanted to propose that amendment. Number 2115 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion following "employee" delete "may", insert "shall" and following "disclose" insert "appropriate". CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was any objection to the amendment. Hearing none, the amendment was adopted. Number 2155 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER inquired if there were provisions in SSHB 340 that had been passed in other bills. CHAIRMAN BUNDE responded, "lifestyle and ...." REPRESENTATIVE PORTER thought the issue of intoxicated parents, guardians and babysitters had also been addressed. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that was in HB 375. Number 2172 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER remarked that perhaps if there were provisions in SSHB 340 that were not already included in other legislative bills, this bill would have a better chance if those provisions were extracted. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON advised that Representative Hodgins and his staff had incorporated four of Representative Dyson's bills into SSHB 340, just as HB 375 includes provisions of other bills, and he hasn't pulled those bills just in case HB 375 goes astray during the legislative process. He suspected Representative Hodgins had that same strategy in mind with SSHB 340. CHAIRMAN BUNDE once again closed public testimony and asked the wishes of the committee. Number 2227 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to pass SSHB 340 as amended from committee. There being no objection, CSSSHB 340(HES) moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. ADJOURNMENT Number 2247 CHAIRMAN BUNDE adjourned the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee at 3:44 p.m.