HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE March 25, 1997 3:13 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Con Bunde, Chairman Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman Representative Al Vezey Representative Brian Porter Representative Fred Dyson MEMBERS ABSENT Representative J. Allen Kemplen Representative Tom Brice COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 158 "An Act relating to attendance at a public school on a part-time basis." - MOVED HB 158 OUT OF COMMITTEE *HOUSE BILL NO. 170 "An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during their training period." - HEARD AND HELD *HOUSE BILL NO. 197 "An Act relating to libraries." - HEARD AND HELD *HOUSE BILL NO. 153 "An Act relating to the eligibility of aliens for state public assistance and medical assistance programs affected by federal welfare reform legislation; and providing for an effective date." - HEARD AND HELD (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 158 SHORT TITLE: RIGHT TO ATTEND SCHOOL ON PART-TIME BASIS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) DYSON,Austerman,Ogan,Kohring,Vezey JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION 02/25/97 465 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/25/97 465 (H) HES, FINANCE 03/10/97 618 (H) COSPONSOR(S): AUSTERMAN 03/13/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 03/13/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 03/14/97 678 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OGAN, KOHRING, VEZEY 03/18/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 03/18/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 03/20/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 03/20/97 (H) MINUTE(HES) 03/25/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 170 SHORT TITLE: PHYS/MENTALLY CHALLENGED/ SERVICE ANIMALS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BRICE JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION 03/05/97 545 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/05/97 545 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 03/25/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 197 SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC LIBRARIES SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES BY REQUEST JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION 03/14/97 668 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/14/97 668 (H) HES 03/25/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: HB 153 SHORT TITLE: ALIENS AND ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION 02/24/97 442 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/24/97 442 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, FINANCE 02/24/97 442 (H) 3 FISCAL NOTES (DHSS) 02/24/97 442 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DHSS) 02/24/97 442 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER 03/11/97 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102 03/11/97 (H) MINUTE(STA) 03/13/97 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102 03/15/97 (H) STA AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 102 03/17/97 690 (H) STA RPT 4DP 2NR 03/17/97 690 (H) DP: JAMES, ELTON, BERKOWITZ, DYSON 03/17/97 690 (H) NR: HODGINS, VEZEY 03/17/97 690 (H) 3 FNS (DHSS) 2/24/97 03/17/97 690 (H) 2 ZERO FNS (DHSS) 2/24/97 03/17/97 690 (H) REFERRED TO HES 03/25/97 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106 WITNESS REGISTER TRACY ASHE, Legislative Intern to Representative Brice Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 426 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3466 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement on HB 170 RAE A. BAGGEN 5311 Halibut Point Road Sitka, Alaska 99835 Telephone: (907) 747-4742 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) VELMA PAZAR 410 Lake Street Sitka, Alaska 99835 Telephone: No number given POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) ROGER HANSEN 1887 Southern Avenue Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Telephone: (907) 457-5816 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) SUZANNE PRICE P.O. Box 84951 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708 Telephone: (907) 452-1575 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) LINDA ATHONS, Coordinator Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program 34824 K-Beach Road Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-5824 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) RUBY SCHMIDTBAUER Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program P.O. Box 306 Ninilchik, Alaska 99639 Telephone: (907) 567-3691 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 170(HES) GEORGE SMITH, Deputy Director Division of Libraries, Archives and Museums Department of Education P.O. Box 110571 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0571 Telephone: (907) 465-2910 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 197 JAY LIVEY, Deputy Commissioner Office of the Commissioner Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110601 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601 Telephone: (907) 465-3030 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 153 CHRIS ASHENBRENNER, Policy and Program Development Division of Public Assistance Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110640 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640 Telephone: (907) 465-2339 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 153 KRISTEN BOMENGEN, Assistant Attorney General Human Services Section Civil Division Department of Law P.O. Box 110300 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300 Telephone: (907) 465-3600 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 153 SUZANNE GOODRICH, Executive Director Catholic Social Services 225 Cordova Street Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 277-2554 POSITION STATEMENT: Was available for questions via teleconference ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-23, SIDE A Number 0000 CHAIRMAN CON BUNDE called the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:13 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde, Vezey, Porter and Dyson. Representative Green joined the committee meeting at 3:40 p.m. Members absent were Representatives Kemplen and Brice. This meeting was teleconference to Sitka, Nome, Kenai, Homer, Glenallen, Anchorage and Fairbanks. HB 158 - RIGHT TO ATTEND SCHOOL ON PART-TIME BASIS Number 0020 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first item on the agenda was HB 158, "An Act relating to attendance at a public school on a part-time basis." REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON made a motion to rescind the committee's action in adopting Amendment 1 at the last meeting. Hearing no objection it was so moved. Number 0042 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 158 out of committee with individual recommendations and zero fiscal note. Hearing no objection HB 158 was moved out of the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee. HB 170 - PHYS/MENTALLY CHALLENGED/ SERVICE ANIMALS Number 0100 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 170, "An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during their training period." Number 0153 TRACY ASHE, Legislative Intern to Representative Brice, said HB 170 is an act relating to interference of the rights of physically and mentally challenged persons in regards to training service animals. Although the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows service animals into public establishments, too often young service animals are turned away from these establishments due to the arbitrary nature of the existing law. The bill extends this law to include young animals in training. Service animals perform functions and tasks that people with a disability cannot perform for themselves. These young animals need the same exposure as trained service animals if they are expected to perform these tasks. Number 0242 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER clarified that these dogs in training would be with trainers in these public places. Number 0260 MS. ASHE said normally the dogs are accompanied by 4-H children, kids or adults. Number 0269 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to a committee substitute. Number 0277 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt the committee substitute. Hearing no objections CSHB 170(HES) was before the committee. Number 0310 RAE A. BAGGEN testified next via teleconference from Sitka. She expressed concerns as she was not an agency person, but an individual training her own service dog and making sure her dog would be certified. Some of her questions were answered by Patti Baumgartner this afternoon. She wanted to make sure the committee knew that sometimes people with disabilities train their own service animals. Number 0365 CHAIRMAN BUNDE presented a scenario where someone went into a restaurant with a pit bull and said the dog was a service animal in training. He asked if there were any side-boards on this bill. Number 0387 MS. ASHE explained that normally the dogs used are labrador, golden retrievers and German shepards. Normally these animals will have a halter on them with a sweater-type garment, identifying them as a service animal in training. She was not familiar with people who were training their own dog or what breed of dog they had. Number 0445 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were any parameters. He asked if someone could say that they were training a service animal and fall under the provisions of this bill or would they have to contact someone first. Number 0468 MS. ASHE agreed to check on this. She referred to the bill, "`authorized' means employed by, or serving as a volunteer with, a school, agency, or other facility that trains service animals;" She thought that perhaps a person training their own service animal would fall under other facility. Number 0497 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said Ms. Baggen brought up an interesting question. Number 0514 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY had difficulty with the concept of giving service dogs in training the same status as trained dogs. He especially questioned this fact when you are talking about a common carrier. If an animal is trained, they have gone past a certain standard, but if they're in training then they haven't reached that standard. MS. ASHE answered that the committee substitute work draft authorized the pre-training or training period for the puppies. This allows them to be out in the public in order to be trained to be a certified trained animal for a blind, deaf, hard of hearing or a mentally challenged person. Number 0578 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that, in order to achieve the status as trained, the dogs need some exposure to similar situations. MS. ASHE said this is the most valuable part of the training because this will either make or break the puppy. If the puppy goes through this part of the training with flying colors or there are fixable problems, the puppy will go to a school for the blind or a deaf school in order to be certified with the person that has the disability. The person and the puppy graduate from this school after learning the commands and the training. If the puppy fails, the animal is given back or absorbed into a family as a pet. Number 0651 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY clarified that this bill says we have a dog in training and we are expecting the public to provide the training facility. We're expecting the commercial interests involved; the stores, the common carriers, to provide free access to this animal. The bill does say that the owner is responsible for any damage that the dog does, but that only lasts until their insurance runs out and then those costs go to the proprietor. He has always understood that these animals were trained to a very high degree of competence before they were exposed to public areas. He said he shouldn't say public because the dogs couldn't tell the difference between training and the real world. He found it disconcerting that we're turning the public places into training grounds for dogs. Having spent a lot of years training dogs, a lot of things go wrong during training. Number 0745 MS. ASHE said the program that Alaska uses, the 4-H program, has their own insurance. The insurance is taken out when these dogs go home with families, who will provide additional training. She did not know the rates, but the program buys liability insurance to cover them if anything should happen. A lot of these puppies have muzzles on them. Number 0777 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER did not think this bill would apply to owners training their own dogs. He felt the only people who could bring service animals in training to public places would be people authorized in the bill. Authorized means employed by, serving as a volunteer with a school, agency or other facility that trains service animals. Number 0812 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if "mentally challenged" was defined somewhere in statute. He said "disabled persons" was used before. Number 832 MS. ASHE explained that not all disabilities are visible. There are dogs that are working with people in wheelchairs. These people are then able to live on their own or with a roommate. Number 850 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he was reasonably sure that there was a definition of "disabled" in statute. He asked if there a definition for "physically or mentally challenged" in statute. Number 0864 MS. ASHE answered that she would find out. Number 0875 VELMA PAZAR was next to testify via teleconference from Sitka. She declined to testify at this time. Number 0887 ROGER HANSEN testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks. He said he has been training dogs for the last 28 years and hasn't had any problems, except in accessing some of the state buildings. Most places in Fairbanks seem to be receptive to the training as opposed to many of the problems he encountered down in southcentral Alaska, particularly on the Kenai Peninsula. They worked with the Fairbanks courthouse in order for them to be let into the building. He has trained about 25 to 30 of these dogs for the blind as well as other service animals. MR. HANSEN explained that he only had two problems in public which were slightly embarrassing, but there was no damage done. These animals can't be trained to work in public unless they are in public. You can't expect the dogs to be brought into the state fair, unless they have done something similar to it. He said the Palmer state fair and the ferry are the two worst places with which he has dealt. The ferry threatened to remove them at the next port if they spent a little bit of extra of time feeding and caring for the animals. These animals cost about $50,000 apiece, which is the value of the animal as an untrained puppy. There is another $15,000 to $20,000 put into them in training after they leave the breeder. These are valuable animals and to be left downstairs in the car deck is a questionable practice. MR. HANSEN said they continue to have problems training in the state buildings, particularly in Anchorage and a few times in Juneau. He and his wife have been denied lodging when they have been training the dogs. He has had the biggest problems with lodging when he has been in Alaska. Number 1058 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to comments about problems in southcentral Alaska. Number 1070 MR. HANSEN discussed shopping trips with the dogs. He clarified that the dogs wear the harness and sweater and are not taken out in public until they are ready to go, which is anywhere from about four to six months. The dogs are capable of doing just about anything out in public by that age. MR. HANSEN said he has had a lot of problems with restaurants. He has found some that would allow them in and he has continued to go to them. Most major stores do not have a problem with allowing these service dogs in training as it is written into their corporate policy. Number 1132 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if they were rejected because they had an abundance of animals or if the animals were being trained one at a time. Number 1147 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that there is a definition in CSHB 170(HES) for certified service animal. He referred to Section 2, and said those animals are not considered certified service animals, but animals in training. He appreciated the problems and stated that he had been a professional dog trainer. He felt an onerous burden was being put on the operators of facilities. There haven't been any assurances given to the degree of training this animal has and he was not quite sure that the entire public domain should be opened up to dog training. He asked if we were talking about making people let these dogs go in the passenger compartments of airplanes. Number 1209 MR. HANSEN answered that he has been on airplanes with these dogs many times, particularly Alaska Airlines. The only stipulation, a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulation, is that they have to sit in a bulkhead seat. Number 1229 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commended him on the working relationship he has developed with Alaska Airlines. He was not sure that CSHB 170(HES) could replace good working relationships with statute. Number 1245 MR. HANSEN said it takes a little bit of time, but they can usually explain to a couple of supervisors and then they allow the dogs on flights. Alaska Airlines has been exceptional, they send eight dogs back and forth, from Alaska to the contiguous United States without a charge. These dogs have accompanied him in small float planes all the way to 747s and he has never had a problem. Number 1275 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that an untrained puppy, bred from the service dog field, is worth $50,000. MR. HANSEN said, in the 1940s, a high quality dog was about the price of a Cadillac and it is still just about that today. There are no finer dogs than these. Number 1301 SUZANNE PRICE testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks. Accompanying her was Tacona, a service animal in training. Tacona is one-year-old and has traveled to Los Angeles and Palm Springs. There really isn't any way to train a dog in the real world without being in the real world with them. A dog in a kennel will not learn how to deal with a bus station, how to get on a bus crowded with people. You can't train a dog how to go to the fair or the circus without taking him there. Some barriers have been overcome in Alaska. Normally there aren't any problems in the Lower 48. MS. PRICE said the biggest problems have been with state types of facilities; the ferries, the Palmer state fair. The guide dogs for the blind that they raise are trained, one at a time. Five dogs that were being brought up on the ferry were for three other puppy raisers and two adult dogs accompanied them. They don't take the dogs out in public until they have their basic discipline and obedience. The animals are not taken into public places until they are trained to behave themselves. The training portion of public places has to do with what the dog needs which is the sights, the sounds, the smells. If you wait until a dog is fully mature to do that, the dog will never be accustomed to those things. You need to do those things when the dogs are young. MS. PRICE stated that customers have never complained and most private industries don't have as much of a problem as the state facilities do. Customers are always very glad to see the dogs. There are probably ten or twelve dogs being raised for guide dogs in the state. Dogs learn valuable things. In the malls children will come up to the dogs and stomp on them, kick them. This happens quite frequently. The dogs have no reaction to this, they are trained and bred to be docile and yet energetic. Insurance is carried through the 4-H office. Number 1497 LINDA ATHONS, Coordinator, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. Her program is administered by Alaska Cooperative Extension. She commented that like not everyone can be a foster parent, not everyone can be a guide dog raiser. They carefully screen applicants. Puppies are placed in homes where people are caring, responsible and committed to the success of the puppy. There are ten to twelve puppies in the state being trained at one time; usually in Fairbanks, Anchorage, Mat-Su area, the Kenai Peninsula and Juneau. The procedure used to obtain access to an establishment is to telephone ahead, explain the guide dog puppy program and get permission to enter the business. This basic component of training is essential to the puppies because of the things Ms. Price mentioned. When the puppies are out in public, they wear a jacket which identifies them as a dog in training. Number 1578 MS. ATHONS is a guide dog trainer and mentioned that Dixie was with her and will be returning to the school in a few weeks. She thanked the local businesses in the Kenai and said that with their help she would be returning a well mannered and competent dog. Dixie is ready for her specialized training. She addressed problems with traveling throughout the state. She has been denied lodging in Anchorage, dining in Fairbanks and entry into the state fair at Palmer. She was granted lodging in Fairbanks but was asked to pay a $70 pet cleanup fee, which was not considered a deposit in order to stay there. Other problems have occurred when a change in business occurs. The new employee does not know about the rapport that has been built. Number 1651 CHAIRMAN BUNDE commented that a majority of times the trainer is able to take a service animal in training to public places and asked if we were looking at exception to this in CSHB 170(HES). Number 1659 MS. ATHONS said it is those times when it is not convenient to call ahead, such as times when you're traveling or the management of the business has changed. Number 1681 RUBY SCHMIDTBAUER, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. She was accompanied by Yukon who has traveled with her to Bethel and down in the Lower 48. These dogs are very well behaved, they need to be in the public. Number 1745 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that this is the first time CSHB 170(HES) has been heard and no action would be taken on it today. The bill would be heard next Tuesday. Number 1753 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if this bill had any enemies. Number 1774 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER mentioned that in his role of training police dogs he never had any problems going into public places, probably because as officers they were in uniform and carrying guns. HB 197 - PUBLIC LIBRARIES Number 1805 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 197, "An Act relating to libraries." This is the first time this bill has been addressed by the committee, so no action would be taken on it today. GEORGE SMITH, Deputy Director, Division of Libraries, Archives and Museums, Department of Education, explained the development of public library grant programs offered by the state in order to explain how HB 197 addresses certain problems. Prior to 1982, the state offered a grant of up to $1,000 a year to existing public libraries to purchase library materials. At that time there were about 55 public libraries, a number which had been stable for a years. In 1982, during the oil years, the legislature passed a radically different public library grant program. This program was meant to encourage the development of more public library outlets around the state. The grant went from $1,000 a year for public materials to a basic grant of $5,000 to any public facility offering a public library service. The entity could receive an additional $5,000 if it could match local money, on a one to one basis. MR. SMITH said as a result of this encouragement, from 1982 to the present, about 55 new public libraries have been established. Of those 55, 25 have gone belly up after one to three years of service because they were not prepared to offer that service. Frankly the $5,000 basic grant looked very attractive to some of the smaller communities in the state. They felt they could run a public library on that amount of money. The fact that the state offered a basic $5,000, led some to believe that, in fact, you could run a library on that amount of money and not necessarily have any local support. Number 1919 MR. SMITH said, in the early 1990s, a number of the public library directors started to request that the state library work with them to draft a public library law. Not only to address the issues that were coming up regarding the flaws in the grant program, but also to give at least some minimum definition of what types of services a public library should provide as it was never addressed in law. This bill attempts to deal with both of those issues; what are minimum types of services that a public library should provide and how to restructure the grant program to encourage local support and better stability. Number 1956 MR. SMITH said HB 197 is a funny bill in the sense that part of this legislation will appear under AS.14.56, which is where the state library sits in statute and the rest of it will appear in AS 14.29 which are municipal statutes. MR. SMITH explained that this addresses the minimum services that a public library should provide. Those services are explained on page 4 of HB 197. These four areas are; you should establish and maintain a collection of books and other library materials available for public loan, you should provide access to interlibrary loan services, you should provide reading and other education programs for children and, finally, you should provide reference information. These set a minimum level on types of services which should be provided if you are going to be considered a public library for the state grant program. Number 2001 MR. SMITH added, the bill also addresses the issue of how to organize a public library. This area is going to be addressed in municipal law such as if you are going to have a public library board, these are the parameters in which you should form it. If you happen to be a non-profit running a public library, we have many of those in smaller communities around the state, particularly outside areas which are organized as cities, then your board meetings are going to have to be held in public. This is something that non-profits do not necessarily have to do under law, but this legislation would require public board meetings. Number 2032 MR. SMITH referred to the very top of page 4, AS 29.60.140 which dovetails those non-profit corporations operating public libraries in unorganized boroughs outside of cities. The state would allow them to be recognized as entities eligible to provide public library service as long as they are recognized by the Department of Community and Regional Affairs as being eligible for grants. This program already exists for many types of other grants in the state. It would simply make it an easy way of dealing with entities outside incorporated areas. Number 2064 MR. SMITH stated the second major issue, addressed in HB 197, is located on the second half of page 2, which completely restructures the grant program. Currently, an entity is allowed a basic $5,000 grant with no local support with an additional $5,000 on a one to one match. In reality, the grant program has not had enough funds in it to fully fund the matching part for three or four years. On a $5,000 local match, the state can match up to $2,000. The maximum anyone gets anymore is $7,000. This section of the bill proposes that the basic and matching part be eliminated and replaced with one system that requires a local effort of at least $5,000. You would receive a $5,000 grant on a matching basis from the state, but you would have to have at least $5,000 of local effort. An entity could get up to $7,000 if you had a one to one match. MR. SMITH said the new law addresses an issue which was not properly addressed in the original law. The original law required actual dollars if you were going to match. The proposed legislation would allow in-kind services instead money. This would recognize the very good, small libraries being run in this state by volunteers. A dollar value could be attributed to their volunteer services. Number 2132 MR. SMITH explained that in the event that the state has another oil boom and more money could be put into the program, the bill addresses a second issue. If there were more money, so that there was more than enough money to provide $7,000 for each library outlet, additional monies could be distributed on a per capita basis. This would bring a certain amount of equity to the larger public libraries in the state. This equity is not being addressed in the current law. A city of 25,000 who has one public library outlet would get $7,000 and a town of 500 people would get the same amount of money. The larger public library directors who have all looked at the bill have come to a consensus that this is what they would like to do. They did not want to go to per capita if it would hurt anyone currently in the program. They want to guarantee everyone $7,000 before any per capita kick-in came about in the legislation. Number 2173 MR. SMITH said there are two other things which are sort of clean- ups in the bill. These are things the bill drafter thought should be addressed now as it is a convenient time. He referred to the very end of page 4, where there is a proposal to sunset two old public library construction grant programs which have not been funded since the late 1980s. There is a little money which is currently being used for construction. The bill proposes a sunset date of June 30, 1999 which would give the division time to close out all of those old grants, so there is really no reason to have that law on the book anymore. MR. SMITH stated the other thing being addressed is something that the state has been doing since at least the 1970s, but is not addressed in law. If you read current law you would assume that the state is only providing two types of grants; the public library assistance grant and something called interlibrary cooperation grants. In fact there is a third type that has been provided for years, the regional services grant. The one service, under this grant program, that you would probably be most familiar with is the books by mail program to people living in the bush. Fairbanks and Juneau currently provide that service through this grant. Anchorage provides a statewide interlibrary loan to the smaller areas. These are regionally oriented, but not in a library cooperation. This third type of grant program is addressed on pages 1 and 2 of HB 197. TAPE 97-23, SIDE B Number 0000 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that the zero fiscal note is because this continues current library programs. Number 0008 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if there were current regulations or would there be regulations proposed which identify what qualifies as in-kind. Number 0018 MR. SMITH explained that current regulations would be redone and an in-kind definition would be covered in those new regulations. He felt that any true local support such as volunteer labor, volunteer electricity and lights for the building, anything like that should definitely be used, as it is local support. There are probably about 20 libraries in the state who are given large amounts of support. In that sense, these changes will benefit them and give them greater security because they will be eligible for up to $7,000. There are, perhaps, somewhere between five and ten libraries in the state who are going to have to seriously look and determine whether or not they wish to provide some local support for their libraries or they will have problems. Number 0121 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if there were any criteria regarding purchasing of a range of materials from science, novels and excludes certain items such as pornography when this $5,000 or $7,000 is granted. Number 0132 MR. SMITH answered that there are not specific requirements. He thought the issue of materials should be addressed in the regulations, which would be written in the future, to encourage people to spread out their purchases among magazines, educational videos, books and perhaps on-line services which are certainly applicable to the medium sized libraries. Even libraries of 1,000 people are now finding that using on-line services to be cost effective. The program would certainly encourage them to spread out their purchases. Number 0190 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified that the types are not specified. Number 0196 MR. SMITH said they don't because each community addresses different populations and different needs. The division thought it was best left up to the communities to decide. Number 0210 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated there can be a wide variation in costs for the same book. He asked, when the grants are given, if there was any stipulation that the books be purchased at the lowest available cost. Number 0238 MR. SMITH answered that they don't require the libraries to do this. Alaska has what many state libraries in the country think is one of the best libraries for small public libraries. It gives them information on how to order books and various places which can provide that service at a very cost effective rate. Secondly, the state provides workshops and special training to any of the public libraries who need it. Those are things that the state does to encourage the libraries to utilize their money. He stated that libraries often seek advice from the division on how best to utilize their money. Number 0286 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if the libraries employed a trained librarian to best meet the needs of the community. Number 0297 MR. SMITH stated that only 19 of the 85 libraries in the state serve 3,000 or more people. Alaska is the most rural, in the sense of the proportion of libraries in the state who serve a very small population. Over 60 percent of libraries in the state, serve fewer than 1,000 people. The next closest state to Alaska is Nebraska with 40 percent. Then it goes way down from there. Very few of Alaska's public libraries have professionally trained people. The state library has library development people who are able to give the type of training to people without the professional training needed. The state is very aggressive about that and it is in high demand. Number 0371 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON appreciated the philosophy about supporting small libraries and libraries that are developed by the community. Number 0402 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if we are adding a new section defining public libraries. Number 0421 MR. SMITH explained that the original bill, while it allowed grants to public libraries, never said what they were. This legislation addresses that particular issue in that it shows which way the libraries can be legally structured; through municipal law or through non-profit and what the minimum levels of service need to be provided. Number 0468 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY referred to Section 6, where a definition is given for libraries by the services it is supposed to provide. He asked if this was a contemporary definition of a library. Number 0475 MR. SMITH said there is no one consensus on what a public library is. The definition includes minimum levels of types of services that the public library felt should be required at the very least. There are many other things that a public library may do and certainly the larger the library is, the more diverse it becomes as to the services it provides. There is a real question among the librarians that, if you didn't do these things, you shouldn't be considered a library. HB 153 - ALIENS AND ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS Number 0544 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 153, "An Act relating to the eligibility of aliens for state public assistance and medical assistance programs affected by federal welfare reform legislation; and providing for an effective date." Number 0580 JAY LIVEY, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Health and Social Services, stated that the administration was here to discuss this issue because when the federal government made changes to welfare reform, they also changed the status of legal immigrants with regard to federal programs as well as federal/state partner programs. Essentially the state has to address some of these eligibility changes in state statutes. Number 0615 MR. LIVEY stated that HB 153 addresses legal immigrants who our government has welcomed to live in the United States. People who are illegal, who have never been in the country legally, have never been eligible for the public assistance kinds of programs that are going to be discussed today. MR. LIVEY referred to information in a packet located in the committee file and said there is a break-down of the kinds of immigrants which are being talked about. There are about 2,100 legal immigrants enrolled in the various programs. About 1,400 of those immigrants live in Anchorage, 106 live in Fairbanks, 160 live in Kodiak. The packet lists demographics of who these individuals are. Number 0710 MR. LIVEY referred to a chart with the bottom footer labeled, "FY 98 Budget Overview" and said the programs on the left side of this chart are the five programs which are affected by either the federal or the state legislation being proposed. He explained the first two programs on the list; food stamps and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are both federal programs. The Food Stamps program is administered by the state, but all the benefits and all the rules are federal. Supplemental security income is the program of cash assistance that the federal government runs for the elderly, disabled and blind. It is all federal funds. The part of the chart that is labeled, "current law" is really the current federal law. Most legal aliens are no longer eligible for either one of those benefits. The federal law made that change and there is nothing the state can do about it. Number 0750 MR. LIVEY referred to Medicaid and the Alaska Temporary Assistance Program (ATAP) which are joint federal/state programs. These programs are state administered, but the federal government gives the state a match; money to help run those programs. For those programs, most legal aliens, under the current federal law, are barred for five years if they came into the country as of August 22, 1996. There is a state option regarding whether or not the state wants to allow legal aliens, who are already in the country as of August 22, 1996, to continue their eligibility. Number 0796 MR. LIVEY referred to Adult Pubic Assistance (APA) which is a state-only program. The state controls the eligibility for this program and HB 153 proposes a similar eligibility requirement. If a legal immigrant was in the country as of August 22, 1996, they would be eligible. August 22, 1996, is a magical date because that is when the federal welfare reform law passed. If you are in the country as of August 22, 1996, then you could receive APA if you were eligible. If you come into this country after August 22, 1996, you would be barred from APA for five years. Number 0833 MR. LIVEY referred to a page in the packet headed, "FY 97 Budgeted Expenditures," the middle chart, under "Individual Impact on Legal Immigrants" the first chart listed as, "Benefits for Blind/Disabled and Elderly." He explained what the impact of HB 153 would be to some of these people. In Alaska the eligibility for SSI is done by the Department of Education (DOE) through the Disabilities Determination Unit. They have a contract with the federal Social Security Administration to do determinations. If you are found to be disabled this means that you have a problem which prevents you from working and supporting yourself or you're blind. Before August 22, 1996, you would receive $484 under SSI, a direct federal cash grant to you. You received $70 in food stamps, $362 in APA. Adult Public Assistance is a state only program, but it piggybacks onto SSI. If you are eligible for SSI, then you automatically get this $362 benefit and are then eligible for Medicaid. MR. LIVEY referred to the far column, "Under Proposed State Legislation," and explained that if your date of arrival in the country was before or after August 22, 1996, under HB 153, you would not receive any food stamps or SSI benefits because they are both federal programs. You would still receive the $362 in APA and you would still continue to receive Medicaid. Under HB 153, which grandfathers people who were eligible as of August 22, 1996, there still is a significant loss in benefit for those blind and disabled individuals. MR. LIVEY explained that there is a similar calculation for the Alaska Temporary Assistance Program recipients. Generally, HB 153 grandfathers in all those individuals who were on ATAP, who are on Medicaid or APA as of the passage of the federal bill, August 22, 1996, and bars for five years any new immigrants from those programs. Number 0990 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked the significance of five years. Number 0995 MR. LIVEY answered that five years was just the amount of time in the federal law that these individuals were banned after August 22, 1996. Number 1002 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY clarified that we are just piggybacking onto the federal law. He asked if the federal law cuts them off right now. Number 1010 MR. LIVEY said the federal law gives a state the option to continue the Medicaid and the ATAP programs which is the old AFDC. However, because of the way the state laws are written, there is a different result. Under the state's Medicaid law, you have to actually be listed in the statute to be eligible for the benefit. In that case, Representative Vezey is correct that if the state doesn't actually write those people into the statute then even those individuals who arrive in the country prior to August 22, 1996, would no longer be eligible. For the ATAP recipients, the statute is written so that you are essentially eligible unless you are written out of the statute. The ATAP individuals would still be eligible even if this bill didn't pass. Number 1062 CHAIRMAN BUNDE clarified that it was still necessary for someone who wished to immigrate to have a sponsor. He asked if those people, grandfathered in and eligible for adult public assistance, should then be the ward of the sponsor. Number 1084 MR. LIVEY answered that a lot of those individuals had sponsors when they originally came into the country, but for one reason or another the sponsorship has ended. The new federal rules state that when the five year ban passes and when we start looking at applications again if there is a sponsor, there are some new deeming provisions in the law which will apply. Deeming provisions mean how much of the sponsor's income do you deem available to the individual in terms of eligibility. Number 1120 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that even though the sponsorship exists, it is really form rather than function. Number 1133 CHRIS ASHENBRENNER, Program Officer, Policy and Program Development, Division of Public Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services, said the one thing that is different about sponsor affidavits under the new law is that there are legally enforceable instruments under the new law. Under the old law, you could sponsor an immigrant into this country and when the immigrant asked for help, the sponsor could say no. Under the new law there is a legal way to get that help. Number 1170 CHAIRMAN BUNDE presented a scenario of someone who is a legal immigrant after August 22, 1996, who becomes disabled and asked if they were no longer eligible for assistance. Number 1188 MR. LIVEY answered that if they arrive in the country after August 22, 1996, and became disabled, they would essentially not be eligible for SSI ever, they would not be eligible for APA or Medicaid until after they were in the country for five years. Number 1206 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked, in practical terms, what happens. Number 1212 MR. LIVEY answered, what happened with welfare reform was that the states got a lot of cost shifts. This is just one aspect of it, you can talk about SSI for alcoholics and drug abusers, changes in food stamps. There are other big impacts as a result of welfare reform of which this is just one. It is a huge cost shift to the states and frankly, to some degree, to the municipalities. Suzanne Goodrich of Catholic Community Services would probably say the same thing. The department has not proposed, in the Governor's budget this year, any special dollars to take care of that group of people who are coming into the country and will no longer be eligible for these programs. It may be that in a few years we will have to do that because the community resources won't be able to handle all those people. Number 1275 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if immigrants were allowed into the country who were disabled. Number 1293 CHAIRMAN BUNDE felt that if they had refugee status they would be allowed into the United States. Number 1315 KRISTEN BOMENGEN, Assistant Attorney General, Human Services Section, Civil Division, Department of Law, said the immigration law in itself is very complex and there are a number of different categories under which people can qualify to come into the country. Some of these categories would be as asylees refugees. She was not aware of any specific prohibition that would keep someone out because they were disabled, nor would those individuals necessarily be disqualified from receiving federal SSI. There is a group of immigrants that are accepted from these rules and could, in fact, qualify for SSI benefits and states are required to provide benefits to them. Number 1347 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if this bill had any enemies. Number 1350 MR. LIVEY did not believe so. Number 1365 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said there are people who would like to testify and would allow those people to testify when this bill is heard again. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to conduct, CHAIRMAN BUNDE adjourned the meeting of the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee at 4:24 p.m.