HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES April 8, 1998 5:08 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman Representative Ivan Ivan Representative Mark Hodgins MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Scott Ogan Representative Gene Kubina COMMITTEE CALENDAR CONFIRMATION HEARINGS: Board of Fisheries John White - Bethel Russell Nelson - Dillingham - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED WITNESS REGISTER RUSSELL NELSON, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries 2028 Woodriver Road P.O. Box 161 Dillingham, Alaska 99576 Telephone: (907) 842-2370 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of Fisheries. DR. JOHN WHITE, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries P.O. Box 190 Bethel, Alaska 99559 Telephone: (907) 543-3778 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of Fisheries. VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Member Board of Fisheries 878 Lynwood Way Fairbanks, Alaska 99705 Telephone: (907) 488-3885 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. JUDE HENZLER, Executive Director Bering Sea Fishermen's Association 725 Christensen Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 279-6519 POSITION STATEMENT: .Testified in support of Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. JOHN McCOMBS P.O. Box 87 Ninilchik, Alaska 99639 Telephone: (907) 567-3334 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against Dr. White and in support of Mr. Nelson. BILL SULLIVAN P.O. BOX 943 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-4850 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against Dr. White. DALE BONDURANT HC1 Box 1197 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-0818 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White. KARL KIRSHER, Executive Director Kenai Pennisula Fishermen's Association (KPFA) 34824 K-Beach Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-2492 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in regards to Dr. White. JOHN EFTA P.O. BOX 353 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-5899 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against Dr. White. PAUL SHADURA P.O. BOX 1632 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 262-1771 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against Dr. White and in support of Mr. Nelson. MEL ERIKSON, President Kenai River Professional Guide Association P.O. Box 3674 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-2980 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. JOE HANES P.O. Box 3132 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-6388 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White. REUBEN HANKE P.O. Box 624 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 262-5097 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White. BRAD ADAMS P.O. Box 994 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-1961 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White. TERRY HOEFFERLY, Chief of Operations Bristol Bay Native Association P.O. Box 310 Dillingham, Alaska 99576 Telephone: (907) 842-5257 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. ROGER NORIS-TULL, Biologist P.O. Box 1155 Dillingham, Alaska 99576 Telephone: (907) 842-4294 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Mr. Nelson. JENNIFER CHRIS, Fisheries Biologist Association of Village Council Presidents - Bethel P.O. Box 219 Bethel, Alaska 99559 Telephone: (907) 543-7343 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Mr. Nelson and Dr. White. DEAN PADDOCK P.O. Box 20312 Juneau, Alaska 99802 Telephone: (907) 463-4970 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-14, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting to order at 5:08 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Austerman, Ivan and Hodgins. CONFIRMATION HEARING -- BOARD OF FISHERIES Number 0079 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that the committee would hold the confirmation hearing on John White and Russell Nelson for appointment to the Board of Fisheries. He asked that they give an opening statement as to why they are running for the board. He asked that Dr. White and Mr. Nelson stay on the teleconference to answer any questions. Number 0122 RUSSELL NELSON, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified via teleconference from Dillingham that he would like to serve on the Board of Fisheries and is supportive of the Board process. He stated that he would work hard for the conservation and development of fishery resources. He stated that he is a member of the Nushagak Advisory Council, the Dillingham Planning Commission and the past Chairman of the Alaska Rural Communication Council, which shows his interest in community service. He pointed out that he understood the time and commitment involved to be a competent member of the Board of Fisheries and feels his resume is consistent with the responsibilities of the position. He stated that he has the support of his family and employer in regards to the extensive travel obligations. He thanked the committee for their consideration. Number 0144 DR. JOHN WHITE, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified via teleconference that there are five areas he would like to address: conservation issues, fisheries development issues, allocation issues, the current sustainable fisheries project and the working committee system of the board. He stated that conservation issues involved the Bristol Bay King Crab fishery, Southeast Abalone fishery and other shell fisheries in the state that are presently depressed and depleted. He stated that the board has acted responsible and they are addressing these issues with the department. He stated that the future shell fish fisheries demand close scrutiny and careful consideration. He stated that the board had dealt with the Norton Sound Chum Salmon conservation salmon problems. He stated that recently the board made a trip to Nome to try and power the community to consider what kinds of subsistence fisheries they would like to see. Number 0195 DR. JOHN WHITE stated in regards to the fisheries development issues, the board has acted very much in the interest of the commercial fisheries in the state of Alaska and it is highlighted by the creation of the cod fisheries in the Gulf of Alaska. He pointed out that it was a controversial decision. The Board has formed a working committee with the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council (NPFMC) and looks forward to the fullest productive development of those cod fisheries. He referred to the open pound herring fishery and stated that the board looked for experimental fisheries and looked for the broadest spectrum of the Sitka public and from the outside participants. It is an ongoing process and the board is trying to get all the input together before anything goes forward. Number 0224 DR. WHITE stated that in the allocation arena they have looked at many hard issues. He stated that he has tried to be fair, look at the scientific data and considered the problems that both sides put forward and made the most judicious decisions. He referred to the Copper River Prince Sound Gilnet fishery and the king and red salmon allocation of that fishery. The Southeast sport and commercial fisheries debates on king salmon were addressed straight up and the board did the best they could. He stated that the Area M fishery is a contentious issue that was recently addressed and an abundance based management program was put in place to hopefully find a long term solution for a long term problem. He stated that the Cook Inlet allocation debates between Cook Inlet commercial fishermen and sport and personal use fishermen in the Cook Inlet districts are ongoing and the proposed deadline is April 10. He stated that he does not have a comment on that debate because he has yet to look at any of the proposals. Number 0270 DR. WHITE stated that the sustainable fisheries project is characterized by four things: trying to find a future with an objective assessment reporting on all the salmon stocks in the state; objective assessment of management practices concerning salmon stocks; an attempt to identify departmental policy that could be put to regulation so that the stake holders involved in the use of fisheries resources in the state would clearly understand what departmental policy regulation is on different issues and how it affects the regulatory process; and getting critical terminology sorted out in regulation to define the term yields and depressed stock status, so that Alaska will not be plagued with threatened or endangered species designation problems. He stated that this would put the state in a position to be less likely to have federal involvement in the commercial, sport, subsistence and personal use fisheries in the future, because we would be handling the problems pro-actively. He stated that this situation has arose in the Northwest, as the National Marine Fisheries Service has recently designated thirteen stocks as threatened or endangered. He hoped that Alaskans would be proactive enough to not have to face that situation. Number 0307 DR. WHITE stated that the committee system that the board has been using during his term as the chair as been to get the broadest possible involvement of the public at the meetings. He stated that the committees are composed of 2 to 3 board members who work with the stake holders, representing the different interest groups. He stated that it has been his policy to make sure that the participants in the stakeholder portion of the committee have an opportunity to object to either the board members constituting the committees or other stake holders selected for participation. He said, "I stand down to take those comments and in the best interest of the process we then adjust till people are satisfied." He stated that the committee system is trying to get at the broadest possible use of the human resources of the board. He stated that there is criticism of the board that the advisory committee is left out. He stated that it should be noted that the advisory committee members and the attendance of the meetings are ex-officio members of all committees and can participate in the committees of their choice. He pointed out that "there have been questions raised about the past rules of the advisory committees only representing the interests of the committee when they meet for their positions on board action prior to the meeting." The board is going to be receiving comments from the advisory committees and from all interested parties after it reviews the committee process of the last year and consider recommendations for trying to find a working order of this committee structure at its work group meeting in October. Number 0374 DR. WHITE stated that he is proud to be a member of the present Board of Fisheries that is very diligent, works very hard, takes on difficult problems straight on and tries to resolve contentious question as thoroughly as possible through public input. He stated that when the board has been wrong it has addressed that issue straight on and made the best possible correction it could. He stated that he looks forward to participating in the future. Number 0384 VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Member, Board of Fisheries, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks that he has served with Dr. White on the Board of Fisheries for the past three and half years and highly recommends that he be confirmed. He stated that he has worked with Mr. Nelson and thought he would be an asset to the Board of Fisheries. Number 0397 JUDE HENZLER, Executive Director, Bering Sea Fishermen's Association, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, that the association represents small boat fishermen in Western Alaska. He stated that the association recommends the appointment of Mr. Nelson and Dr. White. He stated that in February he was at a Yukon River Drainage Fishermen's Association meeting in Kaltag and those fishermen felt this Board of Fisheries has been the most responsive that they have ever been familiar with. He stated that the committee system is an effective way to get some work done. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN noted that there is a letter in the committee members' packet from Mr. Henzler in support of Dr. White. Number 0427 JOHN McCOMBS, testified via teleconference from Kenai that he is disappointed in Dr. White as Chairmen of the Board of Fisheries because he has allowed countless agenda change requests. He stated that Dr. White has addressed area and issues addressed out of cycle, particularly in Cook Inlet, endorsed board generated proposals and supports the gross imbalance of the current Board of Fisheries. He continued that Dr. White has disregarded testimony of the public and area biologists, presented guiding principles as "bio-babble", done nothing for the Kenai River habitat, alienated local advisory committees, restricted public input, forgot about public notice and disregarded procedure which is the ultimate charge of the chairman. He stated that Dr. White has insulted the Kenai Pennisula residents with some hyped-up safety concerns. He stated that if Dr. White fears retribution for a forthcoming hidden agenda he would like to know about it. He added Dr. White has trivialized every fishery in state. Mr. McCombs asked that Dr. White not be confirmed. He stated that he supported Mr. Nelson as it is long overdue to have some more diversity on the board, not having three board members from the Cook Inlet area alone. Number 0452 BILL SULLIVAN, testified via teleconference from Kenai against Dr. White's appointment to the Board of Fisheries because there is an imbalance on the board as it relates to board members and their expertise on a wide range of fisheries. This presents the opportunity for the Board of Fisheries to load its positions on specific issues and it has happened in respect to Cook Inlet salmon. He challenged the legislature to question Dr. White on his involvement and justification of the board generated out of cycle proposal to allocate 20 percent of the salmon bound for the Northern District of Cook Inlet to setnetters fishing in the Northern District. He stated that he would like Dr. White to be questioned on how he sees his sub-committee process accommodating advisory committee positions with respect to multiple sub- committees occurring simultaneously and the advisory representatives not be able to attend those meetings. Number 0475 DALE BONDURANT, testified via teleconference from Kenai that he has attended the meetings over the last 40 years and Dr. White is one of the best chairmen that he has ever seen. He stated that there is a lot more concern in the Chichagof management area especially in Cook Inlet regarding the depressed fishery stocks. He stated that the board has done a good job, although he does not agree with them all the time. He stated that he supports Dr. White. Number 0502 KARL KIRSHER, Executive Director, Kenai Pennisula Fishermen's Association (KPFA), testified via teleconference from Kenai that KPFA is concerned with the new subcommittee process initiated by Dr. White. KPFA hopes that the committee will question Dr. White on the subcommittee process and determine whether the process enhances or detracts from the public participating in the regulatory process. He agreed that the increased opportunity for public participation is only for the benefit of the two board members that are sitting on the committee. He stated that the other board members as a result get less information than in the past process because staff reports, advisory committee reports and public testimony are abbreviated. He stated that KPFA sees many potential problems with the system, obviously which Board of Fisheries members that sit on committee will affect how the committee prioritizes the proposals, write the report and what recommendations the committee makes to the full board. He pointed out the board relies heavily on the recommendations as they do not have the benefit of the ADF&G staff report given to the committee or the questions asked by the committee of the staff. The normal procedure of the ADF&G staff giving reports at the start of the meeting is abbreviated and the information is not fully discussed until the committee meeting. The public and advisory committee testimony, while still heard, takes a back set to the input of those people to sit on advisory panel. He asked that the committee question Dr. White on the procedure. Number 0527 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if he was taking a position on either of the candidates. MR. KIRSHER responded that he will be listening in to the rest of the deliberations. Number 0531 JOHN EFTA, testified via teleconference from Kenai, against Dr. White's reappointment. He stated that his actions in regard to the Cook Inlet drainage do not show his concern as there is hardly any restrictions placed on in-river fisheries and the discreet stocks. Number 0541 PAUL SHADURA, testified via teleconference from Kenai that he would not like to see Dr. White reconfirmed even though he believes he is intelligent, however his arrogance precedes his intelligence. He stated that his concept of sustainable yields are naive and will result in inequalities and inequities throughout the state and the result will be a down turn of what has been developed over the last 50 years. He stated that he supports Mr. Nelson's recommendation to be appointed on the board. Number 0553 MEL ERIKSON, President, Kenai River Professional Guide Association (KRPGA), testified via teleconference from Kenai in support of the confirmation of Dr. White. He is fair in the contentious allocation issues and is concerned with the conservation and sustainability of the fishery. He stated that KRPGA fully supports the subcommittee process as it enhances and expands the public process, he stated that it gives the chance for opposing sides on contentious issues to come to the table and reach a compromise. He stated that KRPGA supports Mr. Nelson as well. Number 0564 JOE HANES testified via teleconference from Kenai that he has been participating in the board process since 1985 and feels that Dr. White has done an excellent job in bringing the groups to the table. He stated that he supports the committee process and an level playing field is starting to evolve for all the stake holders. He stated that he supports Dr. White's confirmation. Number 0574 REUBEN HANKE testified via teleconference from Kenai that Dr. White has done a fantastic job of running the show and has made progress with the subcommittee process that he has started which allows for equal representation throughout the board process. He stated that he supports the reconfirmation of Dr. White. Number 0581 BRAD ADAMS testified via teleconference from Kenai in support of Dr. White, because he is fair and hardworking. Number 0590 TERRY HOEFFERLY, Chief of Operations, Bristol Bay Native Association, testified via teleconference from Dillingham in support of both Dr. White and Mr. Nelson. He stated that he has known Dr. White for 25 years and believes he has the highest integrity and concern for the resources of this state. He stated that Dr. White had taken great steps in renewing public confidence in the board process. He stated that the sustainable fisheries process that the board is undertaking is a process that holds out hope for the continued strength of the fisheries throughout the state. He stated that in regards to Mr. Nelson, he is a friend of the past 10 years and a fellow employee. He stated that he is organized and alert and pays attention to the important things and his past performance as chairman of the rural television system pays tribute to his ability to recognize what is important in issues and to pay attention to them. He stated that politically Mr. Nelson enjoys a consensus among the varied fisheries interests that are present in Bristol Bay and that is miraculous considering the differences. He stated that Mr. Nelson's experience as environmental coordinator for the Natural Resources Department of the Bristol Bay Native Association, demonstrates his concern for the resource and organizational abilities. Number 0640 ROGER NORIS-TULL, Biologist, testified via teleconference from Dillingham that he is familiar with Mr. Nelson's skills and is confident and supportive in the scientific realm. He stated that he is also supportive of Mr. Nelson's capabilities to address the various fishing interests in a fair and balanced manner. Number 0657 JENNIFER CHRIS, Fisheries Biologist, Association of Village Council Presidents - Bethel (AVCP), testified via teleconference from Bethel that she is testifying on behalf of the 56 tribal governments within the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta. She stated that AVCP is in support of Mr. Nelson and Dr. White. She stated that Mr. Nelson has played a major role in advocating the rural and native concerns of Western Alaska with the Federal Subsistence Board and the Board of Fisheries. She stated that his relationship with the fishing communities of Alaska is beneficial to the aim of the current Fish and Game Management Advisory system. She stated that Dr. White has been tremendous in his duties as chairman and in his duties to Southwest Alaska. She stated that his dedication to the committee process illustrates his intentions of conducting fair and productive meetings. She stated that the committee process allows a more face to face approach to ideas on proposals. She stated that it is important for the make-up of the board to include representation of the Bristol Bay and Yukon-Kuskokwim region. She asked that they both be confirmed on the Board of Fisheries. TAPE 98-14, SIDE B [NO RECORDING ON SIDE B, MINUTES RECONSTRUCTED FROM LOG NOTES] Number 0005 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN read out the names and positions taken by each of the written testimonies received: United Cook Inlet Drift Association supports Mr. Nelson and opposes Dr. White; Cordova District Fishermen United opposes Dr. White; Cook Inlet Sport Fishing Caucus endorses both; United Fishermen of Alaska opposes Dr. White; David Martin of Calm Gulch opposes Dr. White; and the Kenai/Soldotna Fish & Game Advisory Committee opposes Dr. White. Number 0052 DEAN PADDOCK, representing himself, stated that he is a 40-plus year resident of Alaska. He stated that he supports Dr. White, as he is intelligent, well informed, and capable. He stated that he speaks from direct observation and experience. He believes that the direction Dr. White has led the board has been a good one. Mr. Paddock stated that he was disappointed to see the opposition to Dr. White's confirmation. He commended Dr. White and urged his confirmation. He stated that he does not know Russell Nelson but would support his confirmation. Number 0127 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was anymore outside testimony and opened it to questions from the committee. Number 0127 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN stated that he supports Mr. Nelson, as he appears to have a rich work history. He stated that he respects Dr. White's past experience and work in the lower Kuskokwim and Arctic Yukon-Kuskokwim areas. He congratulated and wished him luck. Number 0165 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that he saw a newspaper article about a Board of fisheries meeting in Soldotna and asked Dr. White how the board arrived at deciding the meeting place. He asked who was at that board meeting. Number 0190 DR. WHITE stated that the board got together to discuss alternatives. He said that everyone except Mr. Angeson (sp) was there. Number 0204 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked Dr. White if it was unanimous not to go to Soldotna. He said it was a slap in the face to his community and he would like to speak to each member on the board. Number 0215 DR. WHITE stated that is was not a decision but a discussion representing the concern of the board members and himself. The choices were Cooper Landing, Girdwood and Soldotna. Number 0231 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked Dr. White if the newspaper blew it out of proportion. He stated that the newspaper said that the security problem was in Anchorage, not in Soldotna. Number 0240 DR. WHITE stated that they were not exclusively considering which community to hold the meeting in, the board also takes into consideration the requirements for public safety as often as they can. Number 0248 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that he could tell he wasn't going to get a straight answer. He will not allow individuals to do that kind of action against his community. He stated that was a tremendous insult. He stated that Dr. White's resume looks like he has done well and he doesn't want to oppose Dr. White, but he will. Number 0274 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that there are no more questions. He indicated the committee report does not reflect a commitment to confirm Dr. White on the floor during joint session. Number 0297 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN moved to forward Mr. Nelson's name to joint session. He then moved to forward Dr. John White's name to joint session. Number 0306 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS objected. Number 0309 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated if the committee members don't sign, it automatically gets forwarded to the House Resource Committee. He then called a brief at ease. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called the meeting back to order. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that there is a motion before the committee with an objection. Number 0316 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that he would remove his objection and take it up during the joint floor session. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that the objection to moving Dr. White's name forward has been removed. He stated that both Mr. White and Mr. Nelson appointments will move out of the House Special Fisheries Committee. Number 0326 MR. NELSON thanked the committee. Number 0329 DR. WHITE thanked the committee for their consideration. ADJOURNMENT Number 0331 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting at 6:08 p.m.