HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES February 1, 1995 5:03 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chair Representative Gary Davis Representative Kim Elton Representative Scott Ogan MEMBERS ABSENT None SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Lyda Green COMMITTEE CALENDAR United Fishermen of Alaska Presentation * HB 113: "An Act relating to reports by fishing vessels that are not registered under the laws of the state." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITNESS REGISTER JERRY McCUNE, President United Fishermen of Alaska 211 Fourth Street, Suite 112 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: 586-2820 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided UFA presentation KARL KUCHER UFA Board P. O. Box 95 Kasilof, Alaska 99610 Telephone: 262-2519 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony ARNI THOMPSON UFA Board 3901 Heary Way Northwest #6 Seattle, Washington 98107 Telephone: (206) 547-2560 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony BRUCE SCHACTLER P. O. Box 2254 Kodiak, Alaska 99615 Telephone: 486-4686 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS Alaska State Legislature State Capitol, Room 128 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: 465-3424 POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 113 PETE ECKLUND, Aide Representative Bill Williams State Capitol, Room 128 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: 465-3424 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on HB 113 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison Commissioner's Office Alaska Department of Fish and Game P. O. Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99811-5526 Telephone: 465-6143 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 LONNIE L. HAUGHTON, Secretary/Treasurer Ketchikan Trollers Committee P. O. Box 3006 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: 225-1289 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 BRIAN WARMUTH P. O. Box 6382 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: 225-0432 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 DAVID K. OTTE P. O. Box 5103 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: 225-7814 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 GARY FREITAG, Research Evaluation Manager Southeast Region Aquacultural Association P. O. Box 3181 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: 225-6910 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113 PREVIOUS ACTION  BILL: HB 113 SHORT TITLE: REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS,Grussendorf,Kubina,Mackie JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/23/95 116 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/23/95 117 (H) FSH, RES 01/25/95 136 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA 01/26/95 148 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MACKIE 01/30/95 179 (H) FSH WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE, RULE 23 02/01/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-5, SIDE A Number 000 The House Special Committee on Fisheries was called to order by Chairman Alan Austerman at 5:03 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Moses, Davis and Elton. Number 026 JERRY McCUNE, President, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), testified that UFA is made up of 21 different fishing organizations and aquacultural groups from around the state, from Southeast to Bristol Bay. He said, "That gives us a pretty well-rounded perspective of the state. It does make it difficult to work at times, but we seem to get through it and work together on a lot of issues." MR. McCUNE stated that UFA's mission here in Juneau is to track legislation, promote the seafood industry and the commercial fishing industry. He said, "my job is to track not only good and bad legislation, but also to bring parties together to work. There seems to be some misconceptions going around lately that the commercial fishing industry isn't willing to work with everybody. We are willing to work with anybody." He then described his role in working with the different groups in the Governor's Transition Team. Number 108 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN noted for the record that Representative Ogan had arrived at 5:05 p.m. REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked Mr. McCune his definition of a good bill. MR. McCUNE said, "Well, there are bills that let's say we disagree with and one of those such bills we see on the Senate side right now," regarding SB 49. He added, "I can pretty safely say that the fishing industry does not agree with that bill." MR. McCUNE talked about the Transition Team recommendations saying, "But there is some recommendations to change different things, such as the way we appoint, and the way we confirm. That seems to be a real problem that were putting our name forward here in January for the board of fish. Then we try to confirm them in May, in joint session. Which we all know that sometimes it becomes difficult because they've already sat on two board meetings and they've taken votes either way and it seems that they're judged on the way they voted from one area to the next. That is a big problem." Number 167 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN recognized Senator Green and invited her to sit at the table. KARL KUCHER, UFA, stated, "What I'd like to do is walk you through a little brochure that we put together in cooperation with the seafood industry, municipalities and fishing groups, with cooperation from the Alaska Seafood and Marketing Institute (ASMI) and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)." MR. KUCHER added, "On the front page it says that Alaska Seafood Industry, and I think that's very important that we're just not the fish catching industry or the fish processing industry or the fish transportation industry or the fish freezing industry, but we're the seafood industry and we encompass a lot of businesses. Supply businesses, small businesses throughout the state benefit. I think it's one of the most important things to think about, the seafood industry, not just the seafood catching and processing industry. As we go through this, sixty percent of seafood production from the United States comes from Alaska. It's a huge figure. Bigger than the rest of the United States put together." MR. KUCHER indicated that in 1993, Alaska exported $1.5 billion in seafood worldwide. He said, "That goes a long way towards helping the trade deficit. The seafood industry creates jobs and income for more Alaskans and more regions of the state than any other private industry. We are the largest private sector employer in the state of Alaska, generating the equivalent of 33,000 full-time jobs. Jobs is a major source of pride for a lot of communities around the state. When Wildwood prison was going to close and we were going to lose 30 jobs in Kenai, that was a huge uproar. Or if certain businesses were going to move out of town or the timber industry was having problems with the jobs, people lose jobs and it's nice to note that the seafood industry produces the equivalent of 33,000 full-time jobs. We would not like to lose any of those jobs. As a matter of fact, we'd like to make more of those jobs. Somebody at our board pointed out today, as a seafood industry enters into more value added processing, doing more with our fish, we'll be creating more jobs, as we look to do more with our fish. That's one of the upswings of perhaps lower prices, that it will create more jobs as we do more with our fish." MR. KUCHER said, "Forty-seven percent of Alaska's private employment is related to seafood. As you open it up, you will find a map of Alaska. The major points in there is 80 percent of all fishery license holders are held by Alaskan residents. That's people that live in Alaska, pay taxes, buy their goods and services and take their kids out to the movie and buy them shoes for school. If you have a bad fish season, you're still here, you still live here. You find somewhere else to put food on your table. We're Alaskan residents, we're here, we're a self-sufficient part of the community. We're not on payrolls, we're out there doing our own gig and taken care of ourselves. Not looking for a handout, by any stretch of the imagination, as evidenced by the fact that state revenues gain from commercial fishing outweigh state expenditures. Basically, we're an industry that pays for itself. We're a self- sufficient industry that provides a lot of jobs to Alaska. It's very important, we pay our own way." MR. KUCHER said, "What I think is amazing is one of the smaller numbers in there. Nine percent of private industry income in the Anchorage/Mat-Su area comes from the seafood industry. Not quite 10 percent. Anchorage is a fishing community. That's a major portion of the Anchorage/Mat-Su private industry income, comes from the seafood industry. You don't think of Anchorage as a seafood port, but in terms of air freight, it's a major port. A lot of seafood goes through Anchorage just in terms of the air. Tend to think of Anchorage as a seafood port, when you start thinking about flying seafood products around. A lot of private industry income comes from the seafood industry. On the back page, you'll see broken down by Senate district, the number of license holders, crew members and raw fish tax generated in each of those areas. These are all the license holders, not just salmon permit holders." Number 293 ARNI THOMPSON, UFA, testified about the crab fishery saying, "I would like to point out in terms of that sector of the industry, shellfish, in the Westward section, that has an ex-vessel value in 1993 of $242 million. And just to point out too, in terms of raw fish taxes, as part of the shorebased seafood industry complex, it contributes approximately $12 million in raw fish taxes." MR. THOMPSON confirmed, "My concern in coming before you today is that I find it rather peculiar, particularly being a representative of the Bering Sea Crab industry, to find that there is sort of a growing sentiment coming out of parts of the Alaska Legislature, that essentially is an anti-Alaska seafood industry sentiment. That is starting to impact, for instance, the fish and game research and management budget of Bering Sea crab fishers. I am amazed at it coming up before the Alaska Legislature now, because I know the Alaska Legislature essentially supports other resource industries, such as the oil, timber, and the tourism industry. We all know that industry is so important to any state. I just wanted to flag that, the seafood industry is really beginning to notice this and through something like this Alaska Seafood Industry brochure, we're starting to take steps to better educate the Alaska Legislature and the Alaska public about the importance of the industry as a statewide industry and an important economic generator of the State of Alaska." Number 344 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked Mr. Thompson if he could, "articulate a little more specifically what kind of negative sentiment is coming out of the legislature in the form of bills or action." MR. THOMPSON responded that it could be characterized as statements coming from key legislators from the Anchorage area. He said, "Maybe that is a focal point, maybe it's due in part to the fact the seafood industry has not done the job of educating that particular urban area as to the importance of the seafood industry. As you have just heard, Anchorage is actually a hub, it's a cross roads of the seafood industry, a major part of the seafood industry in Alaska. All the fisherman and the processing workers travel through Anchorage to get to their destinations. Anchorage is actually positioned excellently to become more of a conduit in the seafood industry and to further sell its products and services to the seafood industry." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN followed up by asking Mr. Thompson if he felt there was a particular issue that is driving that sentiment. MR. THOMPSON indicated that some of the sentiment was from the sport fishing community. Number 388 BRUCE SCHACTLER, UFA, pointed out that much of the income of fishermen is spent in Anchorage. He said, "An unbelievable amount of money gets spent there. It's all, 100 percent derived from the commercial fishing. There is no credit given for the millions of dollars worth of Christmas presents. The credit is not given." MR. SCHACTLER then talked about ADF&G's budget, saying "We're losing and have lost and with further cuts we are going to have major fishing opportunities lost. Many of the things in the budget, I would have to consider an expense. We like to think the commercial fishing and resource development and management is more of an investment to the state. With the lack of a budget, management is going to become so conservative, we are going to have many opportunities to the fisherman lost, which is lost revenue to the state, which is lost revenue all the way down to the smallest of the coastal communities. It's something I would encourage this committee to specifically ask the department for. A hatchet list that the state of Alaska is going to lose in opportunities." MR. SCHACTLER then talked about the raw fish tax and money spent on diesel fuel and groceries. He said, "These are the things you don't see, the hidden things that really drive this state and local communities. If you really want to get down to where the equity is in the state, you look at the equity in the small businesses themselves. We just figured out in Kodiak alone, just in, if you gave one guy each a seine on the back of his seine boat, not all the other types of gear, that's around $7 million right there. It's such a huge picture and it doesn't get looked at close enough by the community and it's the kind of word we're trying to get out to the legislature that...or the majority, that in the Anchorage area and in the rural Alaska legislators hear this every day, beaten on their desks and their doors. The rest of them don't quite hear it all. That's the word were trying to get out." Number 472 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "I think that sometimes we tend to forget that more fishermen live in Anchorage than any other community in the state. So Anchorage is actually the largest fishing village in the state. Other than the oil and gas industry, the fishing industry is the only one that is revenue positive to the state. The only one that puts more into the general fund than it takes out." He also reiterated, "The more we diminish the ability of the ADF&G to do good research on the biomass, the more conservatively they're going to have to manage that biomass and the less fish in resource that's going to be available to commercial or sport fishermen." CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN confirmed, "That the industry does need to expose itself to the other legislators, but it also needs to expose itself to the rest of Alaska. The legislators are responding to their constituents when they are responding to any particular issue. When you have over half the state population living in one fishing community, like you say, of Anchorage and that community all decides to become sport fishermen, then you as commercial fishermen have something to contend with. I urge you not to just spend your time here at the legislature, you've got to spend your time with the rest of the state of Alaska." CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called an at ease at 5:35 p.m. Number 517 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN reconvened the meeting at 5:38 p.m. HFSH - 02/01/95 HB 113 - REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, prime sponsor of HB 113, stated, "HB 113 will give the Board of Fish the authority to adopt regulations concerning foreign fishing vessels transiting or in state waters. This legislation would allow the board to require foreign fishing vessels to report to the Department of Fish and Game the quantity, species and origin of fish on board. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS further stated, "This bill would assist ADF&G in their effort to collect data on our border fisheries. HB 113 could provide ADF&G with additional in season management data, providing the state with some significant and timely information that was previously unavailable to our fisheries managers. HB 113 will also help protect the state's interest by deterring potential illegal fishing in our waters. Section 2 of the bill directs the Board of Fish to consider for adoption, before May of 1996, the provisions of HB 113 concerning foreign fishing vessels present in or transiting the waters of Southeast Alaska. Number 540 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS stated that the bill has a zero fiscal note and asked the ADF&G if this was realistic, considering there would probably be an additional workload. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated that the ADF&G will be testifying on this bill. Number 547 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Representative Williams if there was any relationship to this bill and the fees being charged for vessels transiting through Canada last year? REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated there is not. He said, "What is happening now with the fisheries, is that our border between Canada and Alaska/US border is right off the Cape Muzon and Cape Shakan which is in Alaskan waters. It comes very close to both the capes and there's a lot of fish that go by early on. In the earlier years there was maybe a dozen trollers coming through and fishing in that area. Now we're getting over a hundred boats fishing that area. I guess last summer, there were approximately 40 trollers a day anchoring up and fishing that area. We're not getting any information or very little information on how much fish are being caught in our waters." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked, "Do we have the authority to do this? This isn't an international issue, is it?" REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS responded by saying that we do have authority. Number 571 PETE ECKLUND of Representative William's staff indicated that he had just received a written legal opinion from the drafting attorney that there is legal authority to do this. Number 579 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS expounded on Representative Ogan's earlier question. "It's my understanding that this has nothing to do with fees, but deals with collecting data. It deals with the amounts of fish so you can adequately determined where they came from and how many pounds and of what species are collected." REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated that what we would like to do is deter any fishing in our waters by foreign fishing vessels. He said, "we would know when they anchor and come into state waters and how much they have of a species and where they caught it and when they leave. We would also know what they had. This would help deter any foreign fisheries going on in our waters." Number 594 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, "How does that apply to a boat registered in Washington State or Oregon?" MR. ECKLUND responded that a vessel registered in the state of Washington, Oregon or any other state would be considered a foreign fishing vessel. Number 602 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Commissioner's Office, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, indicated that ADF&G supports HB 113. He said, "The boundary between the U.S. and Canada in this particular area, runs right to a point of land on the south end of the Prince of Wales Island. So you have Canadian fishing vessels fishing very close to Alaskan waters and then coming into Alaska waters to spend the night. That's the issue of concern, that this boundary area is still in dispute and with the present arrangement, it allows the Canadian fishermen much more access to waters in very close proximity to Alaska, than the reverse. Alaska fishermen cannot approach Canadian land to nearly the same extent. This is the area that is governed by the Pacific Salmon Treaty. So there are fishing annexes which govern the amount of harvest that can be taken in certain areas by the respective fleets and certain time periods and of certain species. That is the concern." MR. BRUCE then addressed the zero fiscal note saying, "What we would propose doing is working with the Board of Fish in adopting a regulatory regime for this, that would not provide for large costs on the department. We'll have to be careful on how we design this, because 40 vessels a night reporting, it could get to be a big workload. But we think we can work out a method where it won't provide a large burden on our staff, which are already very strained during the fishing season. Number 637 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked in regard to foreign fishing vessels, "Are there any federal commerce problems that we may have without equal treatment of a Washington State boat versus some Alaska boat?" MR. ECKLUND indicated that the drafting attorney didn't bring that issue up. A vessel registered in Washington, Oregon or California typically is not going to bring any fish into the state. Number 648 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS suggested that ADF&G and the sponsor of HB 113, reconsider the zero fiscal note, as this effort may be quite burdensome. Number 666 LONNIE HAUGHTON, Secretary/Treasurer, Ketchikan Trollers Committee, testified via teleconference saying, "We asked for this bill as a means of addressing the situation of a large increase in the presence of Canadian trollers in the past five years." MR. HAUGHTON said, "He had spoken with ADF&G about the impact the Canadian's are having in this fishery and the lack of reliable data. We're not asking the state to get involved in enforcing rules or regulations or activities in the disputed boundary...." TAPE 95-5, SIDE B Number 000 MR. HAUGHTON continued, ...."The other question that came up about what a foreign fishing vessel is. Any fishing vessel from Washington State or Oregon State for example, that came to Alaska in any fishery that I know of, registers with the state of Alaska to participate in the fishery. Any fishing vessel or tender that is U.S. registered, that comes into Alaska to participate in the fishery in any way, does register with the state of Alaska. Therefore, they would not be considered a foreign fishing vessel under this regulation, as we understand it." BRIAN WARMUTH, testified via teleconference saying, "I have fished in the area for the last 15 years. When I first started to fish, it was an oddity to see Canadian trollers. Over the last four or five years, the fleet has grown by leaps and bounds. It's not uncommon to see over 100 boats working the 50 fathom edge out in front of the (indisc.) Cape there. Many of these boats are refrigerator vessels and largely stay out for some time. I think this bill will give the ADF&G an important management tool to get a handle on what the catch is out there. Because their fishing in a disputed zone that historically has been fished almost exclusively by Alaskan boats." Number 051 DAVID OTTE, troller from Ketchikan, testified via teleconference saying, "I've seen about the same thing that Lonnie and Brian have. There is no way to tell how many Alaska fish they're catching, without some way to get records from them. It's obvious the Canadian government is not willing or able to let us know how many Alaska fish are being caught there. I think this bill would help do that." Number 076 GARY FREITAG, Research Evaluation Manager, Southern Southeast Region Aquacultural Association and member of the Pacific Salmon Commission stated, "I've had to work with the information that we currently receive from Canada dealing with the harvest on both sides of the border. I think that one of the things that has always been real clear, is that the amount of data that we do receive from the Canadian side is always been fairly slim. I think we've seen some discrepancies in the little that we do receive, that we are suspicious of the reports. So I think it's really critical that we get more substantial data and accurate data to verify some of the things we're seeing in the data bases. I think it's quite important that this be a provision that allows the board to set up a mechanism to gather this information. I am in full support of this. I think it will be a real benefit to the people like myself, who have to work with the information and try to set who's catching whose fish and where they are being caught and where they're migrating too." Number 120 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated, "Subsequent to my question about the federal commerce clause, an opinion was passed out, and I think it speaks directly to the question that I asked and I'm comforted by the opinion. As long as the caveats within the opinion are followed, I don't think we have a problem." Number 128 REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES made a motion to move HB 113 out of committee with individual recommendations. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN recommended that the Fish and Wildlife Protection, Public Safety people be brought in to address the issue of whether or not the other agencies have the resources to enforce it. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was any objection. Hearing none, the motion passed. Number 150 ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the meeting at 6:03 p.m.