HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES January 17, 1994 8:30 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Carl E. Moses, Chairman Representative Harley Olberg, Vice-Chairman Representative Gail Phillips Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Cliff Davidson MEMBERS ABSENT None OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Suzanne Little COMMITTEE CALENDAR Overview: Federal reauthorizations including the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Magnuson Conservation and Fishery Management Act, and the Endangered Species Act WITNESS REGISTER CARL ROSIER, Commissioner Alaska Department of Fish & Game 1255 W. 8th Street Juneau, AK 99802-5526 Phone: 465-4100 Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act and the Endangered Species Act RON SOMERVILLE, Special Assistant to the Commissioner Alaska Department of Fish & Game 1255 W. 8th Street Juneau, AK 99802-5526 Phone: 465-4100 Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act and the Endangered Species Act DAVID BENTON, Director External and International Fisheries Affairs Alaska Department of Fish & Game 1255 W. 8th Street Juneau, AK 99802-5526 Phone: 465-4100 Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act and the Endangered Species Act ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-1, SIDE A CHAIRMAN CARL MOSES called the meeting to order at 8:45 a.m. He noted all members in attendance and asked COMMISSIONER CARL ROSIER to begin his overview of the federal reauthorizations. COMMISSIONER CARL ROSIER, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, (ADF&G), began by giving an overview of where the state was relative to the federal reauthorizations. He stated that the state would probably see a delay in the reauthorization of the Endangered Species Act. The earliest date would be late 1994 or early 1995. The Magnuson Act looks as though it may come up in Congress by late summer or early fall of 1994. He stated there were other federal acts absorbing Congress's time, such as the Clean Water Act, and these would delay the three Acts the state is focusing on. The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) is currently being addressed in Congress. COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that the Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) has been very active on the Marine Mammal Protection Act. They adopted the "coalition" draft as a working document. The coalition, comprised of commercial and environmental interests, produced a draft containing amendments for the MMPA. COMMISSIONER ROSIER remarked that the Citizens Advisory Committee has been working very well. There has been good participation. The department is in the process of selecting members from the CAC to go to Washington, D.C., to lobby for the recommendations developed for the MMPA. REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked Commissioner Rosier if the delays in the reauthorizations placed the state in any jeopardy with the federal government. COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied that the delays did not place the state in jeopardy. DAVID BENTON, DIRECTOR, EXTERNAL AND INTERNATIONAL FISHERIES AFFAIRS, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME, gave an overview on the Marine Mammal Marine Protection Act. He said the Citizens Advisory Committee was convened to first address the Marine Mammal Protection Act. The negotiated agreement between commercial fishermen and environmentalists became the working document for the CAC and is referred to as the "coalition" draft. The CAC forwarded comments to the U.S. Senate prior to their introducing a Senate draft for the MMPA. The CAC helped to shape this document through their comments. MR. BENTON stated that on November 9, 1993, the United States Senate introduced a version of the Marine Mammal Protection Act amendments and the CAC then used this draft as a primary document. The CAC inserted their consensus recommendations into the Senate draft with comments of explanation and forwarded the entire document to the U.S. Senate. MR. BENTON outlined the major points addressed by the CAC in the MMPA: 1) How do we deal with particular problems which may exist in species of marine mammals before they are listed as threatened or endangered or depleted? The coalition draft chose to deal with this issue under a section entitled "INCIDENTAL TAKE TEAMS". These teams would be charged with looking at all the available information on a particular species and then develop a plan for incidental takings in commercial fisheries. The plan would then be forwarded to the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce, in an attempt to solve any population problems before they became critical. 2) The authority or discretion afforded the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce is another issue of concern to the CAC. The interaction of the Secretary with the Take Teams is addressed by the CAC. The CAC believed the Secretary's role should be clearly defined and the process should allow ample checks and balances for the Take Teams membership. 3) The issue of whether there should be a federal fisheries registration system was addressed by the CAC. The CAC did not want the Secretary to have broad authorities to duplicate registrations and require other kinds of regulations on state fisheries or to place observers on board vessels. 4) The composition and the role of the Incidental Take Teams caused considerable debate in Alaska. The draft placed the subsistence taking of marine mammals in the middle of the taking section. Subsistence takings are addressed under a separate section in the MMPA; the reauthorization deals specifically with takings in the commercial fishery. The other area of concern with the original draft was in their suggesting that oil and gas, barge traffic, tourism and other activities should be considered under the Take Teams section. The CAC attempted to refine the language for the Take Teams and focus them where they should be focused. There are people from the subsistence community, the commercial fishing community and the environmental community who still do not agree with the language drafted by the CAC. MR. BENTON stated the plan in Congress is for the U.S. Senate staff to look at the comments it has received on the MMPA and determine how much more work they will perform on the committee bill and possibly introduce a committee substitute to clean up some of the language. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Mr. Benton if support had been sought from other states relative to limiting the powers of the Secretary. MR. BENTON stated that he felt there would be fairly broad support from other states with the exception of the Democratic Administration's influence relative to staff and a more sympathetic attitude toward the agency. MR. RON SOMERVILLE, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME, stated that the department has worked very closely with the Western and International Association of Fish & Wildlife agencies. These agencies do not generally get involved with marine mammals to any large degree, but they have been supportive. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the federal cutbacks are affecting our negotiations on the federal reauthorizations. COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded that he did not think the budget reductions would affect these negotiations. MR. BENTON referred to the National Marine Fisheries Service budget. He stated that he thought the critical items of the budget would be funded. REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON asked why the word "incidental" was deleted from the section entitled "INCIDENTAL TAKE TEAMS". MR. BENTON responded that this was not an expansion of the takings, but this taking was an allowed taking under commercial fisheries and the numbers were to be utilized for the stock assessment evaluation. MR. SOMERVILLE stated the steller sea lion is now listed as threatened in Alaska and it may be upgraded to endangered. He said one of the criticisms toward the National Marine Fisheries Service is they have not focused on resources in trouble before they reach the critical point. The Endangered Species Act contains a void in information, and a determination of the health of a particular resource cannot be determined prior to its reaching a critical stage. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked who the department anticipated would be involved in their lobbying effort. COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded, at least Ron Somerville and David Benton from the department, as well as a couple of members from the Citizens Advisory Group will go to Washington the end of January. MR. BENTON stated they would probably have to go back to Washington again by the end of February to keep the MMPA on track in the House of Representatives. MR. SOMERVILLE stated there had been hearings on the Magnuson Act last year and they anticipate having a United States Senate draft on Magnuson by March 1994. Both chairs in the House and Senate have stated that if anyone wants changes in the Magnuson Act, they will have to justify the changes. Alaska will be in a defensive posture of protecting their interests on the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council process. Washington and Oregon want to increase their membership on the council. MR. BENTON stated that Alaska is in a good position and Senator Stevens has a very good relationship with Senator Hollings, who is chair on Senate Commerce. Also, Congressman Young has a very good relationship with Congressman Studds on the House side. There will be an attack on the council process. Washington state wants more representation. There are proposals circulating that would require a three-quarters majority vote which would tie the council's hands. There may be attacks from certain elements of the environmental community, and possibly consumer groups and others, who are more concerned with the overall process. These elements see the council as being dominated by fishing interests without broad representation of other kinds of interests. The state is not sympathetic to mandating by statute, certain types of representation. MR. BENTON continued that the Washington Congressional delegation sent a letter to Secretary Brown asking that the council be given one more chance to pass the comprehensive Individual Fishery Quota (IFQ) program for all the fisheries off Alaska and if they did not, Secretary Brown should do it. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked for a copy of that letter. MR. BENTON stated that about a month ago, a similar letter came out of Mr. Turner's office, the Washington Department of Fisheries, regarding the Community Development Quotas (CDQ) program and was reflective of the lawsuit that emerged against the program. MR. BENTON continued, another issue that will surface prior to the reauthorization of Magnuson, is by-catch. Senator Murkowski introduced a bill just prior to the Christmas recess that would strengthen the conservation components of the Magnuson Act and would actually enable the councils to charge off and do something about by-catch. This bill has set the tone, but is not strong on the detail. Senator Stevens is also looking at a bill that would set up a system that forces the National Marine Fisheries Service to deal with by-catch, waste, and discard. This may actually come out prior to the reauthorization of Magnuson. MR. BENTON said fees on the offshore fisheries will be a large issue. Certain consumer groups are looking for a means to collect fees from fisheries within the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ.) RON SOMERVILLE stated there has been considerable pressure to reduce the powers of the council and to increase the powers of the Secretary to override the council recommendations. TAPE 94-1, SIDE B COMMISSIONER ROSIER emphasized there has been a lot of manipulation of the decisions of the council once they get into the bureaucracy of the National Marine Fisheries Service. The state has had some major problems in this area. The waste issue will be a major issue. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked who the chief advisor to Secretary Brown is? MR. BENTON answered that it was Tyson, the owners of Arctic Alaska. Tyson has a fair amount of influence in the Administration and Congress. Rollie Schmitten is the newly appointed director of the National Marine Fisheries Service and will play an increasingly important role in the Administration, in terms of advice on these issues. He was the regional director for the NMFS in Seattle. Another person who plays a significant role is Doug Hall, deputy to the head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA.) REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked what was being done about appointments to the council. COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that the Governor's Office is accepting applications from anyone who is interested in applying. There are two seats to be replaced; they are currently held by Oscar Dyson and Rick Lauber. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked who the Administration was looking at in terms of who they preferred for these seats. COMMISSIONER ROSIER said that he did not believe that had been determined by the Governor's Office. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked if Mr. Tillion was being considered for either seat. COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that he was fairly confident that Clem Tillion would be one of the candidates. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the Acts could be reauthorized for a period longer than three years? COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied that it was largely a matter of the issues associated with the Act and it was unlikely that anyone in the public would support a reauthorization period exceeding three years. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if attempting to lengthen the reauthorization to longer than three years would be a viable option. COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded that it was relative to the level of contention surrounding the issues of reauthorization. The issues surrounding these particular reauthorizations seem to be too large to attempt extending the length of the effective date of the Act. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked about the opposition to the CDQ program and which groups there might be from the Washington area to support Alaska's interests in this program. COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that there was no known support within the state of Washington and that he was not aware of any efforts from the state to contact Native groups within Washington for support. However, there has been contact with environmental groups in the Washington, D.C., area. There has been considerable lobbying for support of the CDQ program in Washington, D.C., by Alaskan Native groups and it has proven very helpful. RON SOMERVILLE stated there has been significant communication on the Endangered Species Act with the Pacific Salmon Commission, through Deputy Commissioner Chuck Meacham and also through Native groups back in Washington, D.C. The department has also worked with the International Association of International Fish & Wildlife agencies for support on the Magnuson Act. MR. BENTON informed the committee about the activities being conducted through Health and Human Services and the Department of Labor. John Bullard has a special office with NOAA, and has a specific charge to look at ways to promote programs for sustainable development in communities. He is looking at the New England situation with the collapse of the fisheries and the economic dislocation within the communities. The CDQ groups have spoken with Mr. Bullard about the CDQ programs. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON emphasized the importance of the CDQ program and encouraged the department to seek all the necessary support to ensure the continuance of the program. COMMISSIONER ROSIER informed the committee that last year, the department was required to get a Section 7 permit for the southeast troll fishery because of the handful of fall Snake River chinook harvested in the fishery. It appears they will have to go through the process again this year, and the federal government may be looking at a much higher percentage than last year, which would have a very negative effect on the southeast troll fishery. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked if Henry Mitchell still served on the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council? COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that Henry does not currently serve on the council, but that his name is being circulated as one of the possible appointees. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked if this means that Henry Mitchell is being considered by the Governor for appointment to the council? COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied he was sure that Henry had submitted an application for appointment ANNOUNCEMENTS CHAIRMAN MOSES thanked the department for an excellent presentation. He announced the House Resources Committee had extended an invitation, through Chairman Williams, for the House Special Committee on Fisheries to attend a hearing on SB 132 (loans for IFQs) at 8:00 a.m. Friday, January 21 in Room 124. Phil Smith will be giving a briefing on the implementation process for the halibut and sablefish IFQ program prior to the actual hearing of SB 132. Chairman Moses informed the Committee of their next meeting, which is scheduled for 8:30 a.m. on Wednesday, January 19. ADJOURNMENT There being no other business, Chairman Moses adjourned the meeting at 9:55 a.m.