HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE April 30, 1994 1:50 P.M. TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 1, #000 - end. TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 2, #000 - #392. CALL TO ORDER Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting to order at 1:50 P.M. PRESENT Co-Chair Larson Representative Foster Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Therriault Representative Brown Representative Parnell Representative Grussendorf Representatives Navarre and Hoffman were not present for the meeting. ALSO PRESENT Portia Babcock, Staff, Senator Loren Leman; Senator Loren Leman; Representative Brian Porter; Dave Williams, Division of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services; John Sherwood, Division of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services; Phil Petrie, Operations Manager, Child Support Enforcement Agency, Department of Revenue; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law. SUMMARY SB 366 An Act relating to medical support for children; allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or the public employees' retirement system to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services to the extent allowed under federal law and regulations; and providing for an effective date. 1 CS SB 366 (FIN) am (efd fld) was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with fiscal notes by the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic Development dated 4/12/94. SJR 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and bear arms as approved by the voters at the time of ratification of the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political subdivision of the state. SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the Governor dated 1/24/94 and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety dated 2/15/94. SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and bear arms as approved by the voters at the time of ratification of the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political subdivision of the state. PORTIA BABCOCK, STAFF, SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, spoke to SJR 39 relating to an individual's right to keep and bear arms. The resolution would change the language to Article #19 guaranteeing an individual the right to keep and bear arms. Current law does guarantee an individual the right to bear arms, although many have challenged that law and will continue to do so. Current language is ambiguous, whereas, several attempts have been made in past Legislature's to clarify the right of the "individual" citizen to own a firearm, whether it be for hunting, recreation, liberty, or defense of self, home, family or state. Ms. Babcock added that there is no existing Alaska Supreme Court interpretation of that language either as assurance or prohibition of that right. There have been numerous attempts to place restrictions on law-abiding citizens who own firearms, although the potential for unreasonable firearm restrictions has become likely. 2 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER spoke in support of the House Judiciary Committee version of the legislation indicating that firearm laws enacted by the Legislature have been reasonable and responsible and that there is no information available to change that fact. Representative Porter commented that the amendment must be drafted so as to use language previously interpreted by the courts in past years. The House Judiciary Committee inserted the word "unreasonably", in order to read: "The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be unreasonably denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State." He added that the word "unreasonable" is found in both U.S. and Alaska constitutions and that for over 200 years there has been protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Representative Parnell questioned the amendment to SJR 39 which would change the level of judicial scrutiny to laws relating to weapons. DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, declared that the Alaska Supreme Court uses a sliding scale of scrutiny which applies to the Constitution and state laws for protection challenges. The highest level of scrutiny which the Court employees is always a compelling state interest. Mr. Guaneli continued that the lower end of the scrutiny scale would involve scrutiny by the Court to address rights involving a "rational basis" test. As long as the Legislature has a rational reason for the law to pass, then the law will suffice and will then comply with the constitution. He thought the firearm laws would fall in the lower end category and that the amendment would increase the level of scrutiny the Courts would apply to gun laws. Discussion followed between Representative Parnell and Mr. Guaneli regarding "restriction" of firearms and the rational basis of that restriction. Representative Porter advised of the constitutional right to privacy which could be considered a "compelling" reason against the law. Representative Brown asked if either version of the legislation would affect the "concealed weapons" legislation. Mr. Guaneli mentioned a number of provisions in the concealed weapons bill which could be struck down under a broad right to bear arms. Current law requires a person to wait ninety days to apply for a concealed weapons permit. He felt that this amount of time could not increase the police's ability to check a persons record. Additionally, law currently requires that a person be 21 3 years of age before they qualify for a concealed weapons permit. Representative Brown questioned if that type of restriction would be permissible under the "unreasonably" denied language. Mr. Guaneli disclosed that those kinds of restrictions would more easily pass a test in the State indicating "there being a rational basis". Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment #1 deleting "unreasonably" and the language referenced in Section 29, the Application of Amendments of Section 19 of Article 1. He understood that keeping that language would weaken the national intent. Representative Foster stated that without Amendment #1 the House Judiciary version would return to the proposed Senate version of the legislation. Representative Martin explained that the Senate would not be required to accept changes made to the House Judiciary version of the legislation. Discussion followed clarifying the intent of the amendment. Representative Martin MOVED TO WITHDRAW the MOTION to adopt Amendment #1. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Representative Martin MOVED to adopt the Senate version of SJR 39. Representative Brown OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Parnell, Therriault, Foster, Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin. OPPOSED: Brown, Larson. Representatives Navarre, Hoffman and MacLean were not present for the vote. The MOTION PASSED (6-2). Representative Foster MOVED to report SJR 39 out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTIONS, it was so ordered. SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the Governor dated 1/14/94 and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety dated 2/01/94. (Tape Change, HFC 94-149, Side 2). SENATE BILL 366 4 "An Act relating to medical support for children; allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or the public employees' retirement system to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services to the extent allowed under federal law and regulations; and providing for an effective date." DAVE WILLIAMS, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, explained that under the federal Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (OBRA 93), State Medicaid programs must implement provisions to obtain and enforce medical support orders for noncustodial parents on behalf of Medicaid-eligible children and to recover Medicaid expenditures on long term care and related expenditures for Medicaid recipients age 55 or older. He stressed that implementation of these provisions are necessary in order to avoid loss of federal financial participation in the Alaska Medicaid program. SB 366 would require the Medicaid program to impose co- payments for Medicaid-funded services, to the maximum extent possible. The provision would reduce Medicaid expenditures and shift costs to Medicaid recipients and providers. Discussion followed regarding the implementation of "co- payments" nominal fees. Mr. Williams disclosed that the fees would provide reduced Medicaid payments for services provided. Mr. Williams emphasized that "co-payments" would not effect service delivery. Representative Brown asked if the "co- payments" would provide a medical order to cover Medicaid services. JOHN SHERWOOD, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, informed the Committee that the medical support provisions would parallel other support provisions already existing for AFDC clients extending those provisions to clients who only receive Medicaid. Child Support Enforcement would then be directed to seek medical support orders from non-custodial parents. The legislation provides tools to enforce those orders. Representative Brown noted concern for the already overburdened Child Support Enforcement Agency pointing out 5 the current year budget cuts. She stressed that the agency would not be able to assume any additional obligations. PHIL PETRIE, OPERATIONS MANAGER, CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, responded that the legislation would place the agency into compliance with federal requirements written in 1985. He added at this time the agency completes orders for Medicaid clients, although recently there has been a hearing officer's decision indicating no authority for that concern under state statute. Mr. Petrie concluded that Child Support Enforcement will absorb the costs as part of their regular medical support. Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Brown addressed the Letter of Intent provided by the Senate Finance Committee. The letter would override the current law by providing the Department minimal flexibility in order to waiver the application of policy. Mr. Williams explained that the maximum extent allowable would cost more to collect than that to be received. Representative Brown warned that the intent language would provide a clause stating that it would not cost more than the amount anticipated to receive. There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill from Committee, it was so ordered. There was NO MOTION TO ADOPT the Letter of Intent. CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) was reported out of Committee with "do pass" recommendation and with three fiscal notes by the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic Development dated 4/412/94. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 3:00 P.M. HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE April 30, 1994 1:50 P.M. TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 1, #000 - end. TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 2, #000 - #392. CALL TO ORDER 6 Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting to order at 1:50 P.M. PRESENT Co-Chair Larson Representative Foster Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Therriault Representative Brown Representative Parnell Representative Grussendorf Representatives Navarre and Hoffman were not present for the meeting. ALSO PRESENT Portia Babcock, Staff, Senator Loren Leman; Senator Loren Leman; Representative Brian Porter; Dave Williams, Division of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services; John Sherwood, Division of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services; Phil Petrie, Operations Manager, Child Support Enforcement Agency, Department of Revenue; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law. SUMMARY SB 366 An Act relating to medical support for children; allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or the public employees' retirement system to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services to the extent allowed under federal law and regulations; and providing for an effective date. CS SB 366 (FIN) am (efd fld) was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with fiscal notes by the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic Development dated 4/12/94. SJR 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and bear arms as 7 approved by the voters at the time of ratification of the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political subdivision of the state. SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the Governor dated 1/24/94 and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety dated 2/15/94. SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and bear arms as approved by the voters at the time of ratification of the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political subdivision of the state. PORTIA BABCOCK, STAFF, SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, spoke to SJR 39 relating to an individual's right to keep and bear arms. The resolution would change the language to Article #19 guaranteeing an individual the right to keep and bear arms. Current law does guarantee an individual the right to bear arms, although many have challenged that law and will continue to do so. Current language is ambiguous, whereas, several attempts have been made in past Legislature's to clarify the right of the "individual" citizen to own a firearm, whether it be for hunting, recreation, liberty, or defense of self, home, family or state. Ms. Babcock added that there is no existing Alaska Supreme Court interpretation of that language either as assurance or prohibition of that right. There have been numerous attempts to place restrictions on law-abiding citizens who own firearms, although the potential for unreasonable firearm restrictions has become likely. REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER spoke in support of the House Judiciary Committee version of the legislation indicating that firearm laws enacted by the Legislature have been reasonable and responsible and that there is no information available to change that fact. Representative Porter commented that the amendment must be drafted so as to use language previously interpreted by the courts in past years. The House Judiciary Committee inserted the word "unreasonably", in order to read: "The 8 individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be unreasonably denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State." He added that the word "unreasonable" is found in both U.S. and Alaska constitutions and that for over 200 years there has been protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Representative Parnell questioned the amendment to SJR 39 which would change the level of judicial scrutiny to laws relating to weapons. DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, declared that the Alaska Supreme Court uses a sliding scale of scrutiny which applies to the Constitution and state laws for protection challenges. The highest level of scrutiny which the Court employees is always a compelling state interest. Mr. Guaneli continued that the lower end of the scrutiny scale would involve scrutiny by the Court to address rights involving a "rational basis" test. As long as the Legislature has a rational reason for the law to pass, then the law will suffice and will then comply with the constitution. He thought the firearm laws would fall in the lower end category and that the amendment would increase the level of scrutiny the Courts would apply to gun laws. Discussion followed between Representative Parnell and Mr. Guaneli regarding "restriction" of firearms and the rational basis of that restriction. Representative Porter advised of the constitutional right to privacy which could be considered a "compelling" reason against the law. Representative Brown asked if either version of the legislation would affect the "concealed weapons" legislation. Mr. Guaneli mentioned a number of provisions in the concealed weapons bill which could be struck down under a broad right to bear arms. Current law requires a person to wait ninety days to apply for a concealed weapons permit. He felt that this amount of time could not increase the police's ability to check a persons record. Additionally, law currently requires that a person be 21 years of age before they qualify for a concealed weapons permit. Representative Brown questioned if that type of restriction would be permissible under the "unreasonably" denied language. Mr. Guaneli disclosed that those kinds of restrictions would more easily pass a test in the State indicating "there being a rational basis". Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment #1 deleting 9 "unreasonably" and the language referenced in Section 29, the Application of Amendments of Section 19 of Article 1. He understood that keeping that language would weaken the national intent. Representative Foster stated that without Amendment #1 the House Judiciary version would return to the proposed Senate version of the legislation. Representative Martin explained that the Senate would not be required to accept changes made to the House Judiciary version of the legislation. Discussion followed clarifying the intent of the amendment. Representative Martin MOVED TO WITHDRAW the MOTION to adopt Amendment #1. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Representative Martin MOVED to adopt the Senate version of SJR 39. Representative Brown OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Parnell, Therriault, Foster, Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin. OPPOSED: Brown, Larson. Representatives Navarre, Hoffman and MacLean were not present for the vote. The MOTION PASSED (6-2). Representative Foster MOVED to report SJR 39 out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTIONS, it was so ordered. SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the Governor dated 1/14/94 and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety dated 2/01/94. (Tape Change, HFC 94-149, Side 2). SENATE BILL 366 "An Act relating to medical support for children; allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or the public employees' retirement system to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services 10 to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services to the extent allowed under federal law and regulations; and providing for an effective date." DAVE WILLIAMS, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, explained that under the federal Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (OBRA 93), State Medicaid programs must implement provisions to obtain and enforce medical support orders for noncustodial parents on behalf of Medicaid-eligible children and to recover Medicaid expenditures on long term care and related expenditures for Medicaid recipients age 55 or older. He stressed that implementation of these provisions are necessary in order to avoid loss of federal financial participation in the Alaska Medicaid program. SB 366 would require the Medicaid program to impose co- payments for Medicaid-funded services, to the maximum extent possible. The provision would reduce Medicaid expenditures and shift costs to Medicaid recipients and providers. Discussion followed regarding the implementation of "co- payments" nominal fees. Mr. Williams disclosed that the fees would provide reduced Medicaid payments for services provided. Mr. Williams emphasized that "co-payments" would not effect service delivery. Representative Brown asked if the "co- payments" would provide a medical order to cover Medicaid services. JOHN SHERWOOD, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, informed the Committee that the medical support provisions would parallel other support provisions already existing for AFDC clients extending those provisions to clients who only receive Medicaid. Child Support Enforcement would then be directed to seek medical support orders from non-custodial parents. The legislation provides tools to enforce those orders. Representative Brown noted concern for the already overburdened Child Support Enforcement Agency pointing out the current year budget cuts. She stressed that the agency would not be able to assume any additional obligations. PHIL PETRIE, OPERATIONS MANAGER, CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, responded that the legislation would place the agency into compliance with federal requirements written in 1985. He added at this time the agency completes orders for Medicaid clients, although recently there has been a hearing officer's decision indicating no authority for that concern under state 11 statute. Mr. Petrie concluded that Child Support Enforcement will absorb the costs as part of their regular medical support. Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Brown addressed the Letter of Intent provided by the Senate Finance Committee. The letter would override the current law by providing the Department minimal flexibility in order to waiver the application of policy. Mr. Williams explained that the maximum extent allowable would cost more to collect than that to be received. Representative Brown warned that the intent language would provide a clause stating that it would not cost more than the amount anticipated to receive. There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill from Committee, it was so ordered. There was NO MOTION TO ADOPT the Letter of Intent. CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) was reported out of Committee with "do pass" recommendation and with three fiscal notes by the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic Development dated 4/412/94. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 3:00 P.M. 12