SB 226-HIGHWAY DESIGN & CONSTRUCTION    SENATOR DONLEY explained current federal highway requirements for utilization of federal funds require projects be designed for at least 20 years. He said the actual terminology they are relying on said 20 to 30 years. That was a reasonable goal when it began but now there is so much time from when projects are actually designed to when they are actually constructed the useful years of projects in many metropolitan areas are down to about twelve and sometimes only eight years. So they are really not getting the twenty years of life on road projects. This bill was an effort to design projects for 30 years and hopefully get 20 years of real life on them. The intent of the legislation was not for resurfacing or maintenance projects but when building major new roads and major upgrades of existing roads. He said anybody could see the problem that occurred by looking at the left turn lane portions. Where there is a designated left turn holding area, time and time again before it is upgraded, there is traffic backed up blocking other traffic because there is no more room in the left turn lanes. Those were supposed to have been designed to last 20 years and are not lasting that long. They are being designed consistent with the policy of 20 years but are not built for eight and sometimes twelve years after the design. CHAIRMAN COWDERY said Tudor and Lake Otis are good examples. SENATOR DONLEY said he hoped the members would adopt the Committee Substitute (CS). It clarified the 30-year design was for metropolitan areas because the problem is not on the distance roads or in smaller communities. In metropolitan areas where tremendous traffic growth occurred it would be wise to design the roads to last longer. He left the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) to better define those metropolitan areas. The CS narrowed it down to the metropolitan areas and clarified it is not for resurfacing projects. SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to adopt the Committee Substitute. Hearing no objection, the CS for SSSB 226 was adopted. SENATOR ELTON asked how metropolitan areas would be defined in the CS. SENATOR DONLEY said DOTPF had some concerns that there were portions of the state highway system where a 30-year planning period was not appropriate. He said the Commissioner of DOTPF felt in high traffic areas in cities this made a lot of sense. He wanted to leave it to the expertise of DOTPF to define metropolitan area and have some flexibility on the part of the planners. He had considered some ideas such as, "in a municipality," but that didn't work because there are some big municipalities such as Juneau and Anchorage. SENATOR ELTON said it seemed if they increased the standards for both design and construction they are increasing the possibility there could be budgetary impacts. It would require much more coordination between local municipal officials and state officials and that would have a cost. Trying to figure out what the future is going to look like in 30 years may induce a tendency to over design rather than under design. SENATOR DONLEY said some communities were doing a really good job communicating with the state and some needed to work on that. He was not sure there was going to be a cost so much as people needed to be talking to each other more. He explained most of the highway or road construction budget is driven by Federal Highway Funds. That limits what they can spend unless they started spending General Funds, which they had not done for several years. Federal Highway Funds come in each year and are allocated through the Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP). He said if there was a different design criterion they might do fewer projects but with no additional spending unless they went to some other financing forum for those projects. There might be a revamping of the STIP with fewer things getting done from year to year but the things they did do would last longer. That meant they would not come back and do them again so it would save money over time. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked Mr. Poshard from DOTPF if there would be added cost for construction of highways and roads when they are planned for 30 years. He gave the Tudor Road upgrade and the Glen Highway upgrades as examples. He also asked when right-of-way is acquired is that with thoughts of 30 or 40 years out or is that immediate. DENNIS POSHARD, Special Assistant, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, said Senator Donley was correct in that it would not increase spending per say but it might increase the cost of a particular project. When you design for a 30-year life of a project verses a 20-year life you start considering things like five lane verses three lane. He said there were quite a few issues associated with right-of- way acquisition. DOTPF had some uncertainty of how this bill would actually affect right-of-way acquisition. MR. POSHARD said DOTPF had some concerns about how projects are designed and built. He thought this bill did not necessarily fix some of those problems and created some other unintended consequences. They had spoken with Senator Donley's staff several times to try and iron out some of those issues and they were not quite there yet but they were working on it. CHAIRMAN COWDERY said the Glen Highway was a good example because they added lanes from time to time. He wanted to know how far out the original plan went and did they have to acquire right-of- way to add lanes or was that in the original plan. MICHAEL DOWNING, Chief Engineer, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, said they currently use a 20-year horizon. They design a project to last 20 years from the date it is open to use by the public. That is DOTPF policy and the guidance they have under American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (ASHTO). It is what the Federal Highway Administration would like to see them do as well. They are currently acquiring right-of-way and constructing for a 20-year horizon. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked about a 30-year horizon. He asked if he felt 20 years was their best guess at what was going to be needed. MR. DOWNING said you have less certainty as to the accuracy of what you are predicting as you go further out in time. You then get into situations such as acquiring right- of-way and saying to people, to the public or to a business owner that you project a need in 30 years to need the property that they're on, consequently you want to take it today. That is a difficult thing for us to do. MR. DOWNING said the public has the right to challenge the necessity of an acquisition and that is a good thing and that is how the statutes read. When they project out 30 years and have information that the further out you go the more speculative it is the harder it will be for them to prove necessity. MR. POSHARD gave an example of how the kind of thing Mr. Downing described might come into play. They are working on a project in Senator Wilken's area. Cushman Street is in need of a major upgrade. He talked with DOTPF engineers about traffic counts, type of traffic, volume of traffic and the geometric design for that project. He said if they project out for 20 years it is right at the cusp and right on the bubble of going from a three lane, one lane each way with a turn lane in the center, to a five lane with a turn land in the center. If they project out 30 years there is no question that becomes a five lane, two in each direction with a center turn lane. That creates for DOTPF an issue of right-of-way acquisition. With a three-lane facility right-of-way acquisition has a reasonably small affect on businesses and residences along that street. When you go to a five-lane facility there are quite a few businesses significantly impacted in terms of parking. DOTPF would have to buy out and shut down some businesses. It made sense to pre-acquire right- of-way and to plan ahead but the issue they get into is can they prove necessity. They have to use eminent domain procedures to try and take that property because the business owner may not want to sell and does not think they need it. The other issue is with the Federal Government. Since they require a 20-year horizon for design and construction it is unclear whether they would choose to participate in a 30-year project versus a 20-year project. DOTPF had never done that kind of a project before and never pushed that envelope with the Federal Government to see. They know federal dollars would pay for 3 lanes but are unsure if they would pay for 5 lanes. SENATOR TAYLOR said he understood why Senator Donley was there. He said after years of funding it and waiting for it to be designed, they see a project go forward. The public was contemplating a major rebuild of a road but they see something that widens it to new federal specifications and meets certain federal standards. He gave the example of Chena Pump Road. It was a very expensive major project and everybody in the community was assuming they were going to have four lanes. They ended up with three lanes so they still have the same two-lane street with a suicide lane in the middle. The cut going up the hill is more than adequate for future expansion. He talked to the people on the project and heard they were going to build four lanes. He said it was a make work project for DOTPF five years from now they will be back into the process. SENATOR TAYLOR said in the last few years they pumped just over $600,000,000 into the Glen Highway. The Glen Highway is improved and everybody is driving 70 mph on it. They come roaring into Anchorage to go to work and run into gridlock because the Anchorage Metropolitan Area Transportation Study (AMATS) can not figure out they are at the end of a major arterial and should be coordinating their planning. DOTPF does not seem to take that into consideration as they pour traffic into the town. He thought there were a couple of easy ways to solve the problem. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor are doing everything they can to accomplish killing this economy so they are not going to have to worry about a whole lot of cars on these streets anymore. They will just have state workers driving to and from their jobs. The private sector is going to go down the tubes like they have in his district. They have far to many people turning left in the state all ready. SENATOR WARD said the point about putting a turn lane in the middle also applied in Anchorage and other parts of the state. He asked Mr. Downing if they went to 30 year planning would it force DOTPF to come up with some longer-term plans such as the amount of people that are coming in from the valley or being able to drive out of Juneau. He said instead of just thinking about more money to make one more bike path or one more lane would they actually think in terms of 30 or 50 years. Would they think about traffic patterns instead of just reacting to an emergency turn lane on the corner of Lake Otis and Tudor. He said they were limiting themselves in the ability to actually really plan. He said on Mountain View Drive the government came in and blocked th off entire roads and put trees down the middle of 15 Avenue, the reason was beyond his comprehension. He said they are not going to force people to ride public buses. He asked if this bill would help start the process of looking past a little window to actually planning a state as they should be planning it. MR. DOWNING said the planning portion of this did not concern him. He understood the bill was for design and construction. Designing and constructing for the longer-term horizon was a different issue than planning out for that horizon. He explained when they first started working with Senator Donley's staff they thought maybe there was a way of amending the Title 19 Statutes on planning and come up with a way of looking out further ahead. The problem they encountered was when they called the Federal Highway Administration and asked if there was a concern in doing that. It was a fairly new question for the administrator and he had not had time to research it but he was able to point to the U.S. Code where it says for metropolitan planning they will use a 20 year forecast period. It is not ambiguous it says 20 years. SENATOR WARD said he would restate the question. He asked if you are talking about a highway up in Fairbanks that is three lanes and if you take a longer approach you know it is going to be five lanes would not logic tell you that maybe they should look at an alternative route. He said a new road was a strange concept since he had been there. Nobody talked about new roads they just keep fattening up the ones they had and then put trees in the middle of them. He said wouldn't it make sense if they know there is going to be this amount of traffic in 30 years they should make another route or a by-pass like other cities have done. He thought new roads were a step in the right direction. He asked for the name of the administrator Mr. Downing had talked to. MR. DOWNING said the Alaska Administrator of Highways is Dave Miller. He is in Juneau. SENATOR WARD said you cannot drive out of Juneau. If you plan 30 years in advance you will be able to drive out or here. SENATOR ELTON wanted to express his dismay to his good friends Dennis Poshard and Michael Downing. He did not realize they were doops of this administrative conspiracy to kill the economy and he wanted them to know they were no longer invited into his office for a cup of tea until they could explain themselves. He asked Mr. Downing if he understood him to say the current practice is 20 years out from the time the public first uses the facility. MR. DOWNING said that was right. SENATOR ELTON asked the net effect of this legislation, which says you just plan 30 years out, assuming the clock starts ticking when you begin the planning process. CHAIRMAN COWDERY clarified that the STIP tells how far out different projects are. SENATOR ELTON asked when would the 30-year clock start ticking. MR. POSHARD said currently when they design a project the engineer works with the planning office to come up with a traffic projection. They look at the historical traffic counts for the particular route. They look at the types of traffic, whether it is heavy trucks or just cars commuting and a lot of other statistics. They come up with modeling projections for 20 years plus the time they expect to design and construct that project. When they start they are designing for the traffic projection that might be 26, 27 or 28 years out. It is their best estimate on when that project is going to be done and constructed. Construction plus 20 is what they are shooting for. SENATOR ELTON said the way he read the bill it said you plan for 30 years from the time you start the planning process. The net affect of this bill could be adding another three years onto the life of the project. MR. POSHARD said that was not exactly correct. The CS talks about the plans and specifications for proposed major upgrades. Plans and specifications mean the completed design paperwork that goes out to bid to a contractor. So the plans and specifications the contractor would receive for construction purposes would be for 30 years. If they take two years for construction then that might be 28 years. That would be going from 20 to 28 years. FRANK DILLON, Executive Vice President, Alaska Trucking Association, supported SSSB 226. He said his understanding of the bill and the process behind it was to extend the planning horizon so they have a longer useful life when a major construction project takes place. They would like to see a longer life expectancy to the projects constructed in Alaska. Some things could change as result of using a 30 horizon, which might make a particular project more expensive but at the same time that expense might be looked at as an investment because it is "either pay me know or pay me later for it." He said when he first arrived in Alaska he was amazed to hear there was an actual program of differed maintenance at DOTPF. Because they could not use federal money for maintenance they simply did not maintain or repair the roads until they denigrated to such a point the Federal Government declared them unusable. Then they were allowed to reconstruct them using federal money. He said he came from other states where they did not use differed maintenance other than as a term for something that they need to fix but had not gotten around to. He served on the Anchorage Metropolitan Area Transportation Study (AMATS) Technical Committee as Chairman of the Citizens Air Quality Advisory Committee. They work with the AMATS Coordinator updating the STIP. He explained long-range transportation planning in AMATS is a 23-year program because the Federal Government requires they update every three years. So that adds three years to a 20-year program. They are trying to look out 23 years to provide for useful transportation infrastructure. MR. DILLON said it was a good thing to be looking 30 years ahead of time. He said people had done some of the planning in Anchorage and other areas of the state out 30 years ahead of time and as a result they had a useful transportation system. He said they have gridlock in Anchorage now where dozens of intersections are at the point of failure or will be at the point of failure in the next couple of years. No matter how fast they build or how much money they get they are not going to catch up for an awful long time to where those are actually useful and safe. MR. DILLON said the modeling for traffic engineering projects is better than 10 or 20 years ago. He said DOTPF is using 26, 27, or 28 years worth of planning for projects because the clock starts when the project is finished. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked how long it took to design a project like some of the recent projects in Anchorage. He asked if there is a rule of thumb and what is the design life. MR. DOWNING said the design of the project is one of the easier pieces. Getting through the environmental process and the right- of-way acquisitions is much more difficult. It runs sequentially because you cannot acquire properties that would prejudice your decision in the environmental document. Once those steps are completed all they have is the preliminary design necessary to support the decisions they made up to that point. That is what the federal program will allow them to expend. At that point the hard design to create the plans and specifications is a relatively quick process. The Million Dollar Bridge took six months. SENATOR WARD asked about the time required for the whole process of a project. He wanted an example from the last five years, where they started with dirt and now there is a road. MR. DOWNING asked if he was including the environmental document and the right-of-way acquisitions. SENATOR WARD said yes and he wanted to know which project it was. MR. DOWNING said for the Parks Highway and some of the projects in and around the Wasilla area the design was taking about a year and a half. SENATOR WARD wanted him to address new roads. MR. DOWNING said the C Street extension from Dimond to O'Malley is not built and is a phased project. SENATOR WARD asked how long had they been working on the one that is not built. MR. DOWNING said it was not in hard design. SENATOR WARD asked for one they had built in the last five years. MR. POSHARD said other than the Whittier Tunnel he did not know of any new roads. SENATOR WARD said that was why he was asking and why he was serious about the 30-year planning. If they know five roads in Anchorage are going to have to go to five lanes then logic would th say maybe they should punch 68 all the way through or maybe they should have a by-pass like other cities have done. For the amount of money it takes to go from three to five lanes if they are planning 30 years maybe they should have a route that goes around a community like other cities. MR. DOWNING said in terms of hard design all of their projects can be done in a year and a half. The environmental process the permitting process and right-of-way acquisitions are the time consuming parts. SENATOR WARD asked if DOTPF is going to bring forth some legislation so they can streamline the process. MR. POSHARD said they would not be bringing forward any legislative proposals before the state. They had had conversations with their congressional delegation because those are things dictated by federal law, the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA) and by Federal Statutes. They hoped in the next reauthorization bill their congressional delegation could work on environmental streamlining and help to alleviate some of the lengthy time it takes in the environmental process and the permitting process. SENATOR WARD asked if Mr. Poshard could give the committee a copy of the suggested changes they submitted to Congressman Young. He would like the committee to have them so they could help promote those also. MR. DOWNING said he was only familiar with what he had given the commissioner and not familiar with what the commissioner had given to Congressman Young. In essence it boiled down to two things with the federal agencies and realistically the state resource agencies. In T 21 there was Section 13.09, which is environmental streamlining. It pointed all the effort at the Secretary of Transportation to speed up these projects. It did not speak to the other agencies it said the Secretary of Transportation shall do all these things. That left the other federal agencies less than compelled. What they really need boiled down to two things. They need to be compelled and they need to be enabled. That is financial as well as through changes in Federal Statutes. SENATOR WARD said he was not quite certain that Lloyd Jones had received those requests yet. He asked if Mr. Downing could submit copies of what he had given to the committee. He wanted to help out. MR. POSHARD said if there was something the commissioner had put in writing he would see the committee got it. MR. DILLON said hearings would begin in September on the rewrite of the highway bill. Well over a year ago they were in contact with the commissioner and provided some very good suggestions, which were incorporated into a packet for the U.S. Transportation Committee. There are two major very powerful coalitions that have been formed to work on two separate issues: 1. The NEPA process as it applies to highway construction is being headed up by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and about 400 to 500 member organizations. They are working to find language that would streamline the NEPA process in highway construction projects. 2. Rewrite of the Highway Bill is being handled by the Highway Users Alliance, a coalition of several hundred different associations and industries. He would mail to committee members what was submitted and would be happy to keep them updated. The U.S. Congress would be asking for testimony concerning the reauthorization of the Highway Bill starting in September. They were looking for help to make sure the 8.6 billion dollars deleted from next years Highway Bill is put back in. CHAIRMAN COWDERY said they are meeting with the General Schwartz at Elmendorf Air Force Base and their engineering people on Friday for a briefing on the Knik Arm Crossing. General Schwartz wanted to work with them. SENATOR DONLEY said he drives around his community and sees where they built a road a few years ago and already the left turn lane is packed and backed up. They have a statute to be deciding these projects for 20 years and they don't last 20 years. He first assumed the growth criteria were wrong but DOTPF said they had the right criteria but the projects were not getting built in a timely manner. The solution is to have projects designed for a longer period of time because there is not much they can do to get them built more timely because that is subject to federal requirements. Title 23 Chapter 1 Section 106 C2 says the authority for other than national highway system roads resides with the state. So one thing they can do is extend the time projects last. He said you could argue that it is going to cost more to do a project that is going to lasts for 30 years. You would be able to do more 20-year projects than 30-year projects. SENATOR DONLEY said go ahead and build a road that lasts a longer period of time because common sense tells you if you wait to do those extra lanes that right-of-way is going to become more valuable. It becomes more and more difficult and expensive the longer you wait to deal with the problem. He wanted to continue to work with DOTPF to work out the details. He said the commissioner told him he thought they were headed in the right direction with this bill. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if DOTPF supported or opposed this bill. TAPE 02-04, SIDE B  MR. POSHARD explained in its current form DOTPF opposed the legislation. The commissioner expressed sympathy and interest in Senator Donley's concerns and even agreed with some of them. There was no question DOTPF wished that some previous administration had said pre-acquire the right-of-way through Wasilla. The projects going through that corridor on the Parks Highway are costing fortunes compared to what many other projects cost. It is an issue and they understand and do not disagree with Senator Donley's concerns. The federal law governing it is one that's been developed over the last 50 years and applies nationally. They have a limited amount of wiggle room and are still unclear whether or not this bill is going to create some unintended consequences none of them want. He said if they continue to work with Senator Donley and get the right answers from the Federal Government then he did not know where they would stand on the bill. In its current form and with what they know they felt like they had to oppose the legislation. CHAIRMAN COWDERY noted the Wasilla projects were very expensive. He asked if he was wrong in saying DOTPF went ahead without the knowledge of the full cost of the right-of-ways and there were lawsuits that delayed the project. MR. POSHARD said it is a phased project to upgrade the Parks Highway through Wasilla, on the first portion DOTPF was caught off guard by right-of-way acquisition costs in Wasilla. SENATOR TAYLOR applauded Senator Donley on his effort. He said his frustration was he did not think it was going to make much difference in the long run. He said the design standard says a bridge has to be designed to handle traffic for a road for 50 years. He wanted them to show him a bridge in that corridor that lasted 50 years. He said they as a state need to set the policy. He said DOTPF could have all the excuses they wanted about what federal law required them to do but federal law did not set the STIP and politically move the STIP every time it was convenient to change a project. Federal law was not sitting there with hundreds of millions of dollars in projects fully funded by the legislature sitting on the shelf. He had not seen a new road built in his district in 40 years. It was hard to believe anybody was planning on doing anything in DOTPF other than make work projects. He told a story about a bridge on I-5. SENATOR WARD moved CSSSSB 226 out of committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ELTON said he objected just for the purpose of a comment. He said he was probably going to be a no recommendation on this bill. He did not disagree with where they were trying to get. The trouble he had and hoped would see addressed as the bill progressed through was that it is really difficult to look 30 years out in advance. He said to put that in perspective he was going to look back 30 years. It would have been asking an awful lot of anybody, whether they were designing projects in Anchorage or Wasilla or Juneau or Ketchikan, back 30 years ago to try and project what the needs were going to be 30 years out in the future. He gave the example of the second crossing they are beginning to talk about and really need that cuts across the wetlands to Douglas. When he first served on the assembly the second crossing was a dream in two or three people's minds. They now know the incredible difference it would make but the people who were working on the North Douglas Highway would have had no idea the impacts the second crossing might make on traffic patterns and traffic flows. He said he did not disagree with where they were trying to get but he was going to be a no recommendation for now. He said maybe somebody could help him over the image he had of what they were like as a state and a community 30 years ago and the potential financial burden they are placing on the state when they try to anticipate what the needs are going to be 30 years out in the future. CHAIRMAN COWDERY said he built his house in 1968 and is still living in it. Many of the major shopping centers in Anchorage were built back in the 60's and 70's and are still being utilized. In the private sector there are plans that go pretty far out in time. SENATOR TAYLOR said there were people in Juneau 40 and 50 years ago that said to build the road across to North Douglas. They should have had the crossing 30 years ago and the whole north of the island would be developed. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked for a roll call. All voted Yea. There being no objection, the motion carried and CSSSSB 226 (TRA) was moved out of committee with individual recommendations.