HB 8-LEGIS.PIONEER ROAD DEVELOPMENT TASK FORCE  MS. JANET SEITZ, staff to Representative Rokeberg, sponsor of HB 8, described the bill as follows. HB 8 sets up a Legislative Pioneer Road Development Task Force consisting of representatives from the Alaska Trucking Association, Operating Engineers, Teamsters Union, Alaska Chamber of Commerce, Associated General Contractors, and other organizations. The task force's job would be to identify roads that are important to the future of the economic development of Alaska and to study the feasibility of upgrading and developing some of these roads. In addition, the task force is to consider rights-of-way under the RS 2477 in order to protect the state's interest in those rights-of-way. It should also recommend a schedule of appropriations subject to federal and other funds. HB 8 contains a list of 25 road projects to review and allows the review of other road projects with merit. The task force is to submit a written report of its findings and recommendations to the legislature before the second session of the 22nd Alaska Legislature convenes. The act will be repealed on March 15, 2002. CHAIRMAN COWDERY noted that when federal funds are involved, the roads have to meet standards that make the projects expensive. He asked how that is addressed in HB 8. MR. SEITZ said the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' (DOTPF) staff has testified in other committees that Representative Rokeberg's vision of gravel roads would qualify for federal funding. She pointed out that Representative Rokeberg submitted amendments for the committee's consideration. SENATOR ELTON commented that DOTPF has gone through a very extensive planning process [the Statewide Transportation Improvement Process - STIP]; it may be too early to tell how successful that process has been. The benefit to that process is that it was a grounds-up approach to transportation planning instead of a top-down approach. He asked how Representative Rokeberg came to include some roads and transportation corridors that were not included in that plan. MS. SEITZ said the roads listed in HB 8 come from the work done by the House Special Committee on Economic Development, Trade and Tourism over the last few years. She provided committee members with a packet of information from that committee. She pointed out it is not the sponsor's intention to interfere with the STIP, but instead to add to that planning process and to give DOTPF information that it might not have otherwise looked at. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if the task force will set the priorities for these roads. MS. SIETZ explained that the task force will identify and establish a priority ranking for projects to develop or upgrade roads and submit the list to the legislature. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked a representative from DOTPF to testify. MR. DENNIS POSHARD, Special Assistant, DOTPF, stated the department has some objections to HB 8. He said if money was no object, DOTPF would support the study and construction of many of the corridors listed. But, the fact of the matter is, DOTPF is operating with a constrained budget, so it is concerned about building up expectations to build roads that may not be built. DOTPF is also concerned that should those roads be built, added maintenance will be necessary. Some of the corridors on the list will create substantial maintenance burdens. He said that one of the repeated arguments in support of HB 8 is that DOTPF has not been building any new roads. DOTPF has built some new small segments of roads recently; the limiting factor is one of dollars. He pointed out that when one balances the fact that over 200 miles of the Dalton Highway is under contract to be paved, that project is a much higher priority than most of the corridors mentioned in HB 8. The issue for DOTPF is one of prioritization and not hesitancy to build new roads; its priority has been to upgrade existing roads. DOTPF believes HB 8 will create an unnecessary task force that will build up expectations about road corridors that don't pencil out from a dollars and sense perspective and from a prioritization perspective. Number 614 CHAIRMAN COWDERY commented the Alcan Highway helped Alaska and a lot of the pioneer roads. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Poshard to clarify what he meant when he talked about building expectations. MR. POSHARD said this task force will recommend roads that most would agree will help develop corridors in Alaska but whether or not it is realistic that those roads will be built when they are viewed from the perspective of statewide priorities is not known. He pointed out that DOTPF has done studies on many of these corridors already. DOTPF looked at a road from Bethel to Napaskiak, which is a short distance, but it would have cost almost $5 million per mile to build. The road to Nome is currently being studied in the Northwest plan and maybe recommended in that plan. The road to Cordova is part of the Prince William Sound planning process. The community of Cordova is split on the issue and the ferry service improvements pencil out much better from a dollar perspective. He noted that several of the corridors listed in the bill have already been studied and determining whether a road segment will be the best use of money without taking into consideration rail, barging, airport improvements and alternative means of transportation would be a disservice in building expectations on the part of the public. SENATOR TAYLOR asked who decides what is realistic. MR. POSHARD said that DOTPF uses a public process when doing regional plans that involves the general public. The regional plans use economic models, transportation cost models and preliminary engineering studies. SENATOR TAYLOR asked who sets the policy carried out by DOTPF. MR. POSHARD said DOTPF operates under the constraints set in statute. SENATOR TAYLOR commented the legislature follows a very public process too. He said he finds Mr. Poshard's testimony to be arrogant and offensive in that he indicated that DOTPF will determine, on everyone's behalf, what is realistic. He stated the Legislature determines what is realistic and it will set the policy and asks the departments to carry those policies out. The Legislature uses a public process to set policy and the reality of that policy should not get measured by a bureaucrat in DOTPF. He asked Mr. Poshard to reconsider some of his comments and to assist the committee in its efforts to discern what the public believes are priorities. MR. POSHARD apologized and said his comments were not intended to offend. He said he was trying to point out that DOTPF uses a public process that is federally required. It follows that process to determine how best to program in the resources that the federal government has given the state to spend on transportation. In addition, DOTPF has to come to the Legislature for approval of its capital budget every year, and that will not change, so the Legislature ultimately has the final say in what DOTPF spends the federal transportation dollars on. CHAIRMAN COWDERY noted that Senator Wilken had a proposed amendment. SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 1 and explained that it will add an item (27) for a roughly 60 mile connection from Chena Hot Springs Road northeast to Circle Hot Springs Road. The addition would connect and make a loop from Fairbanks to Circle Hot Springs and down the Steese Highway. CHAIRMAN COWDERY noted that with no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt Amendment 2, to add item (28) to the list of projects to study a road across the Cleveland Peninsula. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if that is the Bradfield Canal Road. SENATOR TAYLOR said it would be an extension of it. The Bradfield Canal Road would run from the tip of Bradfield Canal into British Columbia. The Cleveland Peninsula road would be necessary to connect Ketchikan to the Bradfield Canal Road. SENATOR ELTON commented that nothing in HB 8 precludes the task force from looking at any other projects. He said he will not object to the amendment but advised committee members that he plans to offer an amendment that will bring balance; it will remove a project. SENATOR TAYLOR added that, regarding Amendment 2, most of the roads on Revilla Island are logging roads and by interconnecting those and building two small bridges, one could drive out of Ketchikan. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if there was any opposition to Amendment 2. There being none, Amendment 2 was adopted. SENATOR ELTON moved to adopt Amendment 3, to remove on page 3, line 27, item number (22), a road from Juneau to Atlin, British Columbia. He said he believes the problem with HB 8 is that it uses a top-down approach instead of a bottom-up approach beginning at the community level. He believes the Southeast Transportation Improvement Plan would be an appropriate place to make these decisions. He noted he has received a lot of comments about HB 8, specifically about the road from Juneau to Atlin. The vast majority of people who contacted him oppose the inclusion of that road. Deleting that road from the bill will accurately reflect the opinions he's heard and if the community wants such a road, it should be discussed at the community level first. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that the Juneau to Atlin road was added at the request of Representative Hudson from Juneau when the bill was heard in the House Transportation Committee. SENATOR WILKEN asked where Atlin is located and whether such a road would connect to a road system so that he could drive to Juneau. SENATOR ELTON said it does. Atlin is a short distance from Juneau over the ice field. The road would run up the Taku River and into Atlin, connecting with the Canadian road system. SENATOR WILKEN asked Senator Elton whether he would prefer to remove it from the bill or to add it to the top of the list. SENATOR ELTON said he would prefer that it be removed. SENATOR TAYLOR said he has also received comments from many people from Juneau that favor a road to Atlin. He pointed out the Atlin road could be built for a fraction of the cost of any other accesses in or out of the community. But for the interference by this Administration on development of the Tulsequah Chief Mine and the permits that have already been granted, that road would be there today. This road would go from Thane Road through Sheep Creek to the Tulsequah Chief Mine Road and would not involve the environmental impacts that would occur on the eastern Lynn Canal route and it would cost less to maintain. SENATOR ELTON said this road has been part of an ongoing study and that it was part of the access issue study. The professionals and engineers came to a different conclusion. Many of the people that contacted his office use the Taku River as a sports destination, commercial fish in that area, or are from the neighborhood through which the road would run. He repeated that these kinds of decisions need to be made at the local level. He added that one of the reasons the Tulsequah Chief Mine is not in operation has to do with First Nations in Canada. CHAIRMAN COWDERY called for a roll call vote on Amendment 3. Senator Elton voted in favor, Senators Ward, Taylor, Wilken and Cowdery voted against, therefore Amendment 3 failed. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked the committee to consider another amendment (Amendment 4) that would change the entity that appoints the civil engineer to the task force from the State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyors to the Alaska Professional Design Council. He noted this amendment was requested by the State Board. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt Amendment 4. CHAIRMAN COWDERY announced that with no opposition, Amendment 4 was adopted. SENATOR TAYLOR noted he had a proposed amendment in his packet that defines a rural area. SENATOR WARD asked to see a copy of the amendment as he was not comfortable with new definitions of the word "rural." He asked if "rural" is defined in current law to be anything 50 miles from Anchorage. CHAIRMAN COWDERY said he did not know. SENATOR TAYLOR noted that he would have to oppose the amendment if it is offered because it says that none of the towns visited by the Alaska Marine Highway System in Southeast Alaska would be considered rural, such as Angoon and Hoonah. SENATOR WARD asked Representative Rokeberg what the intent of the proposed amendment is. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the task force will have four members appointed from rural areas. His intent was to make sure that the task force had representation from the rural parts of the state. CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked Representative Rokeberg if he sponsored the amendment. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said that is correct. SENATOR WILKEN asked Representative Rokeberg how strongly he felt about the amendment. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he would defer to the wisdom of the Senators on this issue. SENATOR TAYLOR moved SCS CSHB 8(TRA) from committee with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN COWDERY noted that two people were waiting to testify. MS. PAULA TERREL, Vice President of the Thane Neighborhood Association, asked the committee to rescind its action on failing to adopt Amendment 3. The Thane Neighborhood Association is not opposed to HB 8, but it does oppose a road from Juneau to Atlin. The association opposes such as a road for the following reasons: · Heavy avalanche danger; · The road would travel through a neighborhood that currently has a dirt road; · The road would travel through the Dupont area, which is heavily used by local, tourism, and recreational groups; · In the Juneau access road study the Atlin road project was ruled out because the British Columbia government opposed that portion of the road; · High maintenance costs; · The First Nations in British Columbia have filed a lawsuit to stop development of the Tulsequah Chiefs Mine, which is why the permit for a road to that mine has been held up. The Thane Neighborhood Association also supports the commercial fishing groups and the Taku River homeowners association, groups that oppose this road. SENATOR TAYLOR said he completely agrees with Ms. Terrell and that it's not his intent to take a road out past Thane Road because of the reasons she stated. He noted there is a hole through Mt. Roberts so if a tunnel was punched through it, the road would never come near the Thane Road neighborhood. MS. SUSAN SCHRAEDER, representing Alaska Conservation Voters (ACV), said ACV has several concerns with this legislation. Last month, the Senate Transportation Committee heard testimony on SB 3, a bill that would authorize an appropriation to do a study of North Denali access. A major criticism of the Denali Task Force was that they thought the membership of that task force was totally imbalanced with members opposed to a northern access route. She believes the same criticism can be leveled at the Pioneer Road Task Force. It is almost exclusively weighted with pro-road advocates. Alaskan history has shown, time and again, that road projects are very controversial and the best way to avoid some of that controversy is to have a good public process. The fiscal note associated with this bill does not provide for many local hearings or notification of comment periods. The task force should be funded sufficiently to allow for a meaningful public process so that the task force can determine what communities want. Ms. Schrader said a healthy economy for Alaska will not be found by looking backwards at 80 year old rutted tractor trails. She encouraged legislators to put its time and resources into meaningful studies to improve the transportation needs of the state that will enhance economic opportunities. HB 8 will establish a controversial, faulty process to take a look backwards. She asked the committee to oppose the bill. SENATOR TAYLOR moved and asked unanimous consent that SCS CSHB 8(TRA) move from committee with individual recommendations. There being no objection, the motion carried.