SB 152-LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS IN ANCHORAGE  3:56:10 PM CHAIR SHOWER announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 152 "An Act relating to the convening of the legislature at the capital and in the Municipality of Anchorage; relating to the location of legislative sessions; and relating to the emergency relocation of functions of state government." CHAIR SHOWER solicited a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute. 3:56:55 PM SENATOR REINBOLD moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for SB 152, work order 32-LS1306\I, as the working document. CHAIR SHOWER objected for purposes of discussion. CHAIR SHOWER, speaking as sponsor of SB 152, explained the CS seeks to address the concern that deleting the phrase "if the legislature is convened in a municipality other than the capital city" in several places throughout the bill might be interpreted as an intent to move the capital from Juneau. The CS addresses that to clarify that the bill is only talking about legislative sessions and the intent is to move the session every other year. SENATOR REINBOLD stated that she plans to be a co-sponsor. 3:59:42 PM CHAIR SHOWER removed his objection; finding no further objection, the CS for SB 152 was adopted. SENATOR KAWASAKI noted that the fiscal note is indeterminate. He said he read the analysis and it raised some questions. 4:00:32 PM JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, stated that the analysis reflects the challenge to quantify the costs when there are no specifics in the bill about the policy decisions that need to be made. 4:01:26 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced the second paragraph of the fiscal note analysis. This fiscal note is indeterminate as several policy decisions are necessary to estimate the fiscal impact of this legislation, such as: He asked if she had any cost estimates for the two special sessions under Governor Palin and Governor Walker that were held outside the capital city. MS. GEARY said yes, but it is not an apples to apples comparison. Special sessions are limited in duration and scope and the upfront costs are spread over just a few days whereas for a regular session the upfront costs are spread over a much longer timeframe. The cost for the two day special session in Anchorage under Governor Palin was in the neighborhood of $78,000 per day while the general estimate for a special session in Juneau is about $30,000 per day. In regular sessions the range of topics covered is much broader, more staff is needed, and more bills are drafted, all of which makes a comparison difficult. She offered to provide the historical cost information she had if that would be useful to the committee. SENATOR KAWASAKI said he believes that information is necessary to provide a baseline. SENATOR KAWASAKI asked the sponsor whether a facility in the Municipality of Anchorage had been identified that potentially had 10 committee rooms, 60 legislative offices with adequate space for partisan staff as well as staff for legislative finance, legal services, information technology, security, and printing and documents, all with adequate parking. 4:05:07 PM CHAIR SHOWER asked if he was requesting the cost estimates. SENATOR KAWASAKI answered yes. He acknowledged he was not familiar with the availability of buildings in the Municipality of Anchorage that could accommodate the legislature during a regular session but he wondered whether a new building was envisioned. He asked if that was the intent. 4:06:03 PM CHAIR SHOWER said buildings have been identified in the past that would serve the purpose, but at this point the concept is at the 30 thousand foot level. He added that he did not care one way or the other whether legislative sessions were held in Juneau or elsewhere but he did know that others had very strong feelings about more access to their legislators during regular sessions. He agreed that there would be associated costs, but pointed out that there would be savings as well on per diem. He described the bill as a balanced bridge approach that responds to the will of the people. He also predicted that the bill would die in finance without getting a hearing. He committed to get the requested information from Ms. Geary to add to the broad discussion. He opined that it wouldn't matter, but he still wanted to move the bill from committee. 4:08:30 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI said the information matters if the committee intends to move the bill. He asked the sponsor to comment on the statement about per diem in the fiscal note. Per Diem. This bill would result in a savings for legislator per diem due to approximately 24 fewer legislators being eligible; however, overall, per diem cost would increase significantly as a result of approximately 40 non-partisan staff relocating to Anchorage a net increase of 16 individuals eligible to receive per diem. Further, the Anchorage per diem rate is traditionally higher than the Juneau per diem rate. Relocation. This bill would result in minimal savings f CHAIR SHOWER said Ms. Geary would need to expand the discussion in the fiscal note, but he recalled that rates in Anchorage during regular sessions are cheaper than in Juneau. Further, it would actually be 33 legislators plus their staff who would not be eligible for per diem because legislators from the MatSu Valley fall into the 50-mile radius. He restated that the bill offers a balanced approach. 4:10:22 PM MS. GEARY agreed that per current rules, members within the 50- mile radius of the regular session would not be eligible for per diem. She said the per diem rate for Anchorage is $354 year round whereas the Juneau rate is set by Legislative Council policy and does not change throughout the session. Currently the rate is $307 per day, but if that were adjusted seasonally the summer rate would be $367 per day. CHAIR SHOWER asked whether Legislative Council could set the same policy for a regular session in Anchorage. MS. GEARY answered yes; that is within the purview of Legislative Council. CHAIR SHOWER opined that rather than saying the Anchorage rate is higher, it would be more accurate to say that the rate would be whatever Legislative Council wanted it to be. 4:11:58 PM SENATOR REINBOLD commented on how tight things were when the capitol building was being remodeled and pointed out that multiple special sessions had been held in the gymnasium. She said the point is that legislators do not need fancy facilities. She opined that the bill would reduce per diem, give legislators more access to the people, and expand the pool of people who would run for office. She also pointed out that per diem for staff is just one percent of what legislators receive because they receive salaries year round. She urged legislators to be creative in putting forward ideas for potential sites to hold regular legislative sessions. CHAIR SHOWER requested his staff provide clarifying comments. 4:13:35 PM SCOTT OGAN, Staff, Senator Mike Shower, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, stated that what has not been discussed is the cost savings the bill represents to the administration because most directors and commissioners are paid per diem when they travel from Anchorage to testify on legislation. CHAIR SHOWER said he had not thought to discuss that point. SENATOR REINBOLD said people learned to work remotely over the last two years so Legislative Legal Services and other staff should be able to stay in Juneau and work remotely if a regular session were held in Anchorage. She further suggested that VPSOs could provide security and pages could come from the local community. She thanked the sponsor for bringing the bill forward. CHAIR SHOWER clarified that the point is not to move the capital. Rather, the driving point is increased access and getting people more involved in government. He agreed with the point that working remotely is much easier today than it was two years ago. 4:16:47 PM SENATOR HOLLAND agreed there is a clamor to make the legislature more accessible by putting it on the road system. He described SB 152 as a good bill. CHAIR SHOWER commented on the high cost to stay in Juneau. 4:18:32 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI noted that the language in Section 3 confines the second legislative session to the Municipality of Anchorage so it could not be held in Fairbanks, for example. CHAIR SHOWER agreed that is how the bill was drafted. SENATOR KAWASAKI said he was responding to Senator Reinbold's comment about moving legislative sessions to different locations when the bill clearly identifies the Municipality of Anchorage. SENATOR REINBOLD said she understands that but believes that other options should be considered, particularly for special sessions. 4:19:33 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced Mr. Ogan's point about potential cost savings to the administration and asked if that means those agencies have not been consulted and asked to submit fiscal notes. MR. OGAN offered his understanding that the administration had not submitted a fiscal note. CHAIR SHOWER clarified that the answer was no. 4:20:12 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI highlighted the points in the fiscal note analysis that discusses infrastructure. Infrastructure. Video, audio, and hi-speed internet capabilities as well as network support would need to be installed in leased or new space to replicate existing capabilities for committee rooms, chambers, and offices. Specifically, electronic voting boards and audio system in the chambers; teleconference/videoconference capable systems installed in committee rooms; security camera system for the building; as well as specialized equipment for the Offices of the Chief Clerk and Senate Secretary; commercial copiers; etc. Additionally, per KTOO, Gavel TV does not have the resources to support sessions in a location outside the capital. If similar coverage was desired, either another entity or the Legislature would need to provide professional production quality coverage previously provided by Gavel TV, including camera/audio infrastructure as well as pro He state that Gavel Alaska is extremely important to his mother and the people of Alaska, all of whom would lose that benefit if sessions were held outside Juneau. He asked how the bill envisions offsetting that loss. 4:21:07 PM MR. OGAN said he imagines a transition period before a legislative session is moved to set up a functional replacement system. Anchorage was selected because most legislators live in the vicinity, he said. 4:22:34 PM CHAIR SHOWER pointed out that most bills provide intent but do not tell people how to do something, and the same applies to SB 152. It is a reasonable compromise to provide people more access to their legislators. There is a solution to all the problems that might be raised because every problem has a solution. CHAIR SHOWER requested a list of all the questions and committed to get answers from Ms. Geary and the other agencies. He said the committee will receive a copy and that information will be in the bill packet. CHAIR SHOWER asked for final questions or comments. 4:25:16 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI said he asked the questions because the bill is an important policy decision and for complete transparency it's important to know how it will work. He said he didn't know that legislators would receive more input from the people if [legislative sessions] were moved but he could say that when he participated in the special session in the Egan Center in downtown Anchorage, almost no guests attended the floor sessions other than family of legislators. In the special session in 2015, the attendance was stronger but it was largely confined to the organized groups speaking on the budget. Individual citizens did not show up. He also mentioned poorly attended townhalls. SENATOR KAWASAKI said the legislature's work is in Juneau and without additional information about the policy decisions that will make this a bill that will improve transparency and access to the public, he couldn't support it. CHAIR SHOWER responded that it's not possible to know whether the bill will increase access until it's tried. He opined that plenty of people will show up, depending on the issue. He said he was in Wasilla in 2019 and was swamped, and all townhalls in the MatSu are standing room only and there is a desire for more. He maintained that the work can be wherever legislators want it to be. He restated that he was trying to find a solution that would be satisfactory to both sides of the debate. SENATOR REINBOLD commented that the listening sessions and townhalls she had hosted usually were very busy because they were about issues that affected people's lives. 4:31:06 PM SENATOR HOLLAND commented that facilities come and go but there was plenty of availability in Anchorage. 4:31:22 PM At ease 4:31:38 PM CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting. SENATOR HOLLAND continued to say that this is something the people of Alaska want to see happen. CHAIR SHOWER emphasized that this bill is not about moving the capital; rather, it is about moving every other legislative session to the Municipality of Anchorage. 4:32:56 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI said his recommendation on the committee report will be "do not pass" because he needs more information on the policy decisions, but he appreciates that the sponsor will move through that. CHAIR SHOWER restated his commitment to work through the policy decisions. Finding no further questions or comments, he solicited a motion. 4:33:31 PM SENATOR REINBOLD moved to report CSSB 152, work order 32- lS1306\I, from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). 4:33:43 PM CHAIR SHOWER found no objection and CSSB 152(STA) was reported from the Senate State Affairs Standing Committee