SJR 15-CALL FOR US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
           SCR 4-US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION DELEGATES                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:43:00 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STOLTZE  [announced that the  last order of  business would                                                               
                                                                                                                                
be  a hearing  on both  SENATE  JOINT RESOLUTION  NO. 15,  Making                                                               
                                                                                                                                
application to  the United States  Congress to call  a convention                                                               
                                                                                                                                
of  the  states  to  propose   a  countermand  amendment  to  the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Constitution  of the  United  States as  provided  under art.  V,                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Constitution of  the United States;  and urging  the legislatures                                                               
                                                                                                                                
of the other  49 states to make the same  application; and SENATE                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4, Relating  to the duties of delegates                                                               
                                                                                                                                
selected by the legislature to  attend a convention of the states                                                               
                                                                                                                                
called  under  art. V,  Constitution  of  the United  States,  to                                                               
                                                                                                                                
consider  a  countermand amendment  to  the  Constitution of  the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
United  States;   establishing  as  a  joint   committee  of  the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
legislature  the Delegate  Credential Committee  and relating  to                                                               
                                                                                                                                
the duties of the committee;  providing for an oath for delegates                                                               
                                                                                                                                
and alternates  to a countermand amendment  convention; providing                                                               
                                                                                                                                
for  a  chair and  assistant  chair  of the  state's  countermand                                                               
                                                                                                                                
amendment delegation; providing  for the duties of  the chair and                                                               
                                                                                                                                
assistant chair;  providing instructions  for the selection  of a                                                               
                                                                                                                                
convention  president; and  providing specific  language for  the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
countermand amendment  on which the state's  convention delegates                                                               
                                                                                                                                
are authorized by the legislature to vote to approve].                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:43:49 AM                                                                                                                   
CHARLES  KACPROWICZ,  Executive  Director,  Citizen  Initiatives,                                                               
                                                                                                                                
indicated   that  his   organization  has   been  promoting   the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
advancement of legislation  [such as SJR 15 and SCR  4 - together                                                               
                                                                                                                                
addressing an  application by  the State of  Alaska] to  pursue a                                                               
                                                                                                                                
constitutional convention  under powers  granted by Article  V of                                                               
                                                                                                                                
the Constitution  of the  United States -  in several  states for                                                               
                                                                                                                                
the purpose of  getting what he called  a "countermand amendment"                                                               
                                                                                                                                
added to the  Constitution of the United States;  and offered his                                                               
                                                                                                                                
understanding  that there  are "eighteen  states with  sponsors,"                                                               
                                                                                                                                
and that  nine states  have either  filed or  are in  the process                                                               
                                                                                                                                
filing [such legislation].   He expressed his hope  that [if such                                                               
                                                                                                                                
legislation  passes, and  a constitutional  convention addressing                                                               
                                                                                                                                
the proposed countermand amendment  is convened, and ratification                                                               
                                                                                                                                
of the proposed  change to the Constitution of  the United States                                                               
                                                                                                                                
occurs,  then] states  in  disagreement  with particular  federal                                                               
                                                                                                                                
laws could  start seeking repeal/nullification  of those  laws by                                                               
                                                                                                                                
late 2016.   He offered his beliefs  that it is Article  V of the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Constitution  of the  United States  itself  that would  prohibit                                                               
                                                                                                                                
such a  constitutional convention from addressing  anything other                                                               
                                                                                                                                
than amendments  to the  Constitution of  the United  States, and                                                               
                                                                                                                                
that a  countermand amendment to  the Constitution of  the United                                                               
                                                                                                                                
States offers  legislatures the  best hope  of restoring  what he                                                               
                                                                                                                                
called, "our constitutional republic."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KACPROWICZ  offered his  understanding  that  should such  a                                                               
                                                                                                                                
countermand amendment  to the Constitution  of the  United States                                                               
                                                                                                                                
be  ratified,  then any  30  states  could  seek to  nullify  any                                                               
                                                                                                                                
federal  law  -  including  those  engendered  by  United  States                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Supreme  Court rulings  - or  any  constitutional right,  whether                                                               
                                                                                                                                
enumerated or  not; and that  any such nullification would  be in                                                               
                                                                                                                                
effect immediately.   In conclusion,  he offered his  belief that                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ratification of  a countermand amendment  to the  Constitution of                                                               
the United  States would  create a balance  of power  between the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
states and  the federal  government, and that  there would  be no                                                               
                                                                                                                                
limit to how  the countermand amendment could be  applied as long                                                               
                                                                                                                                
as 30 states agreed to the particular application of it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:52:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  COONS, National  and State  Director, Citizen  Initiatives,                                                               
                                                                                                                                
referencing  some federal  laws  as example,  offered his  belief                                                               
                                                                                                                                
that  if  a countermand  amendment  to  the Constitution  of  the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
United States  [such as that  proposed via SJR  15 and SCR  4] is                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ratified, any federal  law that is nullified by  the states could                                                               
                                                                                                                                
simply be rewritten  by Congress to better comport  with what the                                                               
                                                                                                                                
states that nullified it want.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STOLTZE  announced that SJR 15  and SCR 4 would  be held in                                                               
                                                                                                                                
committee.