HB 260-STATE OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION  CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 260. [Before the committee was CSHB 260(STA).] 9:54:56 AM REPRESENTATIVE MIKE DOOGAN, Alaska State Legislature, said HB 260 re-establishes a compensation commission for the principle officers of Alaska. There was a working compensation commission in 1979, and Senator Elton was a public member. An attempt was made to reestablish a similar commission in 1986, but it was dependent upon a constitutional amendment that never passed. HB 260 has a repeal of that inactive commission. The bill provides for five members with three public members, all appointed by the governor. No member will have served in any of the offices that the commission will consider for compensation in the previous four years. It will be staffed by the Department of Administration, and the fiscal note is $7,500. It will report every two years. Recommendations by the commission will take effect unless specifically rejected by the legislature. It would require an appropriation so the legislature will get two looks at "this provision." There are about 20 such commissions throughout the country. 9:57:48 AM SENATOR BUNDE asked if this would be like Congress where if the legislature fails to vote no, the raise is automatic. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said no, because of the appropriation. SENATOR BUNDE said Congress automatically gets a raise if the commission recommends it so they can say, "the devil made me take this money." 9:58:46 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is the overt rejection, but there is an appropriation requirement. People wanted to move the capital and because of the FRANK initiative "and other things," it ended up being "the lack of an appropriation that ended up not solidifying parts of that." If the intent is to have an effective system of compensating lawmakers based on the recommendations of this commission, "I have wondered whether having the step of appropriating it might be the death of it." REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it could, but he couldn't find a way to remove the legislative power of appropriation from the bill. CHAIR MCGUIRE said to go upstairs to get some ideas. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said the legislature does have to appropriate the money. He has tried to remove the legislature as much as possible because he believes rational decision-making comes from citizens without anything "on the table." SENATOR BUNDE said to get citizen participation the money has to come out of the earnings reserve of the Permanent Fund. 10:00:51 AM SENATOR KIM ELTON, Alaska State Legislature, said he is not here in the capacity of a senator, but he will speak to 30 years ago when he served on a salary commission. The impetus for the commission was a successful initiative that repealed an act that raised salaries for legislators and created a very generous retirement system. Commission members were appointed by the governor. He doesn't remember if there were qualifications for serving. HB 260 does have one condition. All of the members on the old commission were from the private sector and did not hold a state or municipal job. One problem was its scope of authority; it reviewed the salaries of all elected officials from governor, judges, and down to division directors. It wasn't that burdensome on the commission, but it created issues in the legislative branch when recommendations were made. "There were so many different recommendations … that it created an opportunity for so many legislators who disagreed with one element to be displeased with the recommendation." 10:04:55 AM SENATOR ELTON said the commission was abandoned and attempts to resurrect one have not been successful. He thinks the notion behind a salary commission makes sense, and this narrower one is better than the previous commission. 10:05:47 AM SENATOR STEVENS asked if a fair salary would have had an impact on the ethical lapses that have occurred "in this building." SENATOR ELTON said yes, but he can't quantify the extent. A greater impact will be on the demographics of the body, and not on its ethics. Most members are old white guys who have paid off their homes. It is difficult for a younger person with house payments and kids at home to leave their profession and serve. This is his personal philosophy. The salary of an ethically- challenged person might not matter. But he hopes that [higher salaries] will change the demographics of both bodies. SENATOR FRENCH said the bill is overdue. HB 260 doesn't say how often the commission will meet. He wants the commission to look at whether the state really has a citizen's legislature or not. "We want to think we have that," but he can only think of a few members who are able to hold on to their jobs. It is hard to do something else while working at the legislature, and members end up becoming a professional legislator over time. 10:09:09 AM SENATOR ELTON said it is an important question, and there are entities that could help answer that. The National Conference on State Legislatures rates Alaska as trending toward a full-time legislature. The commission could get that information easily without listening to legislators. SENATOR BUNDE asked if Representative Doogan sees this commission recommending a full-time legislature. The part-time one was established by the constitution. "There seems to be some inconsistency between the fervor for a 90-day session and the willingness of the public to support a full-time legislature." 10:11:42 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it is a difficult question because Alaska has a citizen legislature but they are all professionals since they get paid to legislate. The question is if it is full time or part time, which is quantifiable. The days and hours can be measured. It is his hope that the commission would look at the indicators of what is actually happening versus a theory of what is happening, and make a recommendation based on that. SENATOR BUNDE asked about long-term per diem for people who live in Juneau. If flies in the face of the definition. Another term may be more appropriate. 10:13:54 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it is difficult to explain his long- term per diem, whereby he gets paid when at home. He recommends not calling it something that nobody else in the world would call it. The IRS won't call it per diem, because it is taxed. SENATOR BUNDE said he suspects that long-term per diem was coined when there was smoke and mirrors. It is indeed a stipend. 10:15:59 AM SENATOR GREEN wondered if it was coined for "out-of-towners." When she heads into a town for a meeting, it's different. Senator Stevens flies. Her previous district could take her from Eureka to Talkeetna. A woman needs to take someone with her, so she has to buy extra meals, and that isn't easy to claim. "It wasn't designed for urban legislators as much as … out-of- towners." CHAIR MCGUIRE said "You face this dilemma where you actually are working and most people who claim long-term per diem will spend the whole day working on legislative stuff, and so if you don't take it, then what do you do?" If it is taken, it is difficult to explain. "We all know it's compensation for what you're doing, but the name ends up being odd." She wants this discussion to be used by the commission. Travel for people who live outside the highway system creates some disparities. She said the legislators with retirements think this job is something to do later in life and shouldn't be paid full-time salaries. She chairs and vice-chairs a nationwide group, and she does it to put Alaska in a good light. She brings information to Alaska. She loves her job, and she doesn't know how to do it part time. Voices of people in their earning years should be heard in this building. Gender comes into play, and she thought of an option of allowing the choice to be a part-time or full- time lawmaker. Some may want full-time legislators, and some may not. She said to start calling a spade a spade. "We're not being really direct about the amount of work that's done, what we're paid for it, and how that ought to work." 10:20:22 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said his age-group (60 years old) is vastly overrepresented. Everyone was happily surprised at Alaska's participation in the [recent national presidential] caucuses, and that happened because they felt they could make a difference. He said if more people could do their public service without having to abandon their private lives, there may be more options come election time. CHAIR MCGUIRE said no one believes that being a lawmaker should be lucrative. It is public service, but should there be a basic salary to pay bills? SENATOR STEVENS said he likes the idea of a citizen legislature, but he works almost everyday. It is not full time, but it certainly isn't part-time work. The difference between a citizen and professional legislature is how much a person gets paid. 10:24:21 AM SENATOR BUNDE said the public often sees the legislature like the fire department that is on call when someone has a problem. That dichotomy will be difficult to change. Citizens only want a full-time legislator when they need one. It is constitutional to be a part-time body. This commission will be educational. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said a person called him when he was running for election and asked why he wasn't in his office when he dropped by. Representative Doogan told him that his job wasn't full time. The man responded: "I don't want you to be there full time, just when I come to see you." CHAIR MCGUIRE held HB 260 in committee.