SB 135-ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION  [Comparison to HB 171 is included in the discussion.] CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 135. She noted that there is a comparison with the companion bill, HB 171, in the committee packet. She also said there were three amendments passed in the House State Affairs committee this morning. SENATOR STEVENS noted that only two amendments passed. 9:47:13 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE referred to the side-by-side comparison of the house and senate bills and said Section 3 is still in the house bill, and it adds a section that the first regular legislative session would start on the second Monday in January and the second session on the second Monday in February. Representative Johnson offered that language because with a late start date in an election year, there is the potential for the governor to call a lame duck session of people who are only technically serving because the newly elected members have not yet been sworn in. If the newly elected members aren't aligned with the governor, such a situation could upset the public's will. She said she has no opinion. 9:50:22 AM SENATOR GREEN said that happened in the third special session with non-re-elected members participating. "This makes it so difficult." She asked if the bill changed the reporting date of the governor. That may solve the problem, she said. CHAIR MCGUIRE said it is commiserate. RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff to Representative Jack Coghill, said Amendment 2 that passed in the house this morning addresses some of the reporting dates. "I hope this matches your bill." She referred to Page 6, line 18. It addresses the supplemental appropriations and the budget amendments. The first year was adjusted to allow 30 days to submit the supplemental budget, and it is 5 days in the second year. 9:52:35 AM JOHN BOUCHER, Office of Management and Budget (OMB), said he has been working with the house regarding the deadlines, and there is only one OMB suggestion that the house has not adopted. In the odd-number years, OMB proposed to have the amended budget by the 45th day, and the house has it on the 30th day. He understands it would be half way through the 90-day session, but "in terms of the calendars that are set up in the odd year, which would begin in January, they provide adequate time for us to prepare a budget." CHAIR MCGUIRE said there have been lame duck sessions and the earth didn't fall off the axis. The governor is still sworn in on December 4, so he or she could still call a lame duck session even with the house language. She asked Mr. Boucher if the staggered dates would cause OMB any difficulty. 9:55:17 AM MR. BOUCHER said the only real concern is moving the deadline for the final budget up with a January start date, because the revenue forecast for the current year won't be quite as robust. There may be a slightly larger group of amendments the following year, he surmised. But revenue forecasts can change dramatically based on the price of oil, so the budget release is timed to be as close to the end of the fiscal year as possible. It will be best to give the Department of Revenue the advantage of having the time to incorporate the tax information from the previous year into the spring forecast. SENATOR BUNDE asked the rationale for starting later instead of the normal time. He has heard that airport problems are worse in January, but he is not sure that is a reason to establish public policy. With a 90-day session members may not be leaving Juneau as often. There may be more special sessions, which may have less impact to families if they happen in April or May, rather than June. He asked the reason for beginning the session later. 9:58:05 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said the Senate bill also calls for a February start date, "but this is wide open; it's for us to decide." SENATOR STEVENS said it would be nice to have a little more time at home during the winter holidays. SENATOR GREEN said it had more to do with deadlines for reports and the governor's budget. It reduces pressure, especially during an election year, and it will result in fewer substitutes and amendments. 9:59:27 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said the staggered start dates are confusing. If it is a citizen legislature and members have jobs, it is nice to have a predictable schedule. She said, "I don't share the heightened degree of paranoia that something terrible is going to happen, maybe because I lived through it this last year." There were only 12 people that were not re-elected who were making decisions [during that lame duck special session]. MS. MOSS said the February date is for the revenue forecast, and the January amendment was added when Representative Gruenberg noted that the constitution defines the term of a representative as two years. Starting the session on the second Monday of February, "the term of the outgoing representatives would end on January 15, so technically you would have no members of the house. Their term has expired." Currently that situation exists for about eight days in the gubernatorial election years, and it hasn't been a problem. "This would only occur once, because if you had a session in February, they would be sworn-in in February, and the two-year term would match." 10:02:11 AM TAMARA COOK, Director, Legislative Legal and Research Services, said Ms. Moss is correct. The constitution says that the term of office for house members is two years and four for the senate, so with a staggered start date on gubernatorial election years, some members have a term that expires early. She said this might not be a problem. As an administrative matter, the legislative affairs agency has treated legislators as if they remain in office until their successors are sworn in. It has not come before the court, she said. If the term is moved radically backward, then there is a bigger gap for one cycle. The convening date can be changed by law. The problems are inherent in the constitutional language, which says that the term is a set period of years, but it also gives the legislature the opportunity to change the beginning date. "I'm inclined to think that a court would somehow…construe those two provisions together to avoid a situation where we had a lot of empty seats during a critical period." 10:04:40 AM SENATOR FRENCH recalled testimony saying the revenue forecast can be moved. "There is nothing fixed about the world economic cycle or other reporting agencies that bring us the raw data for preparing the revenue forecast. That date can be pushed around," he said. The real problem is the fiscal year is set at a certain date. He surmised that the revenue folks would like to wait until as close as possible to the beginning of the fiscal year before they give the forecast. He said that makes sense, but it is July 1. So why not move up the revenue forecast? MR. BOUCHER said the forecast can be moved; it is a matter of what information is available at the time. With a new tax structure and other new components, "you want to have the best, most latest information available, and I believe that those would be provided for in the annual tax return." Forecasting should begin shortly after those are filed. CHAIR MCGUIRE said that is in April. SENATOR FRENCH asked if he is referring to the PPT [profit-based petroleum tax of 2006] law or just the general list of laws passed each year. MR. BOUCHER said in this case it is the PPT. Regarding this spring forecast, the true-up payments are coming in around the first of April, and that is critical information for this fiscal year and next. This is unique, and once comfort is developed with the PPT tax structure, it won't be so important. 10:07:32 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said the state is so dependent on oil and gas revenue, and the filing deadline is in April. That is when the legislature gets the most accurate information. SENATOR FRENCH said the PPT question will go away soon. He asked if there are other April reports, because the PPT payments come every month. MR. BOUCHER said he believes that there is a true-up at the end of the year. SENATOR FRENCH said that on April 2 there will be the true-up from the transition to the PPT, and it is a one-time event. "We're looking for a billion dollars to enter the state bank account on Monday," but it is a one-time event. 10:09:00 AM SENATOR STEVENS asked if the law states that legislators remain in office until the successors are in. MS. MOSS said the only law is the constitution that defines a term as two years. SENATOR STEVENS suggested clarifying that a person is in office until a successor is sworn in. CHAIR MCGUIRE said that is a great idea and she asked for that amendment from legal services. MS. COOK said she presumes that would be limited to the period at the end of a session. "You would not want a person to remain in office until a successor is appointed by the governor in case of vacancies that occur mid-term." If someone resigns, there is a system for filling vacancies. 10:11:15 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said yes, and she asked for a draft for both bills in that narrow context, because it will likely be the house bill that moves forward. SENATOR BUNDE said the ability of committees to take action while not in regular session is not addressed in the bill. MS. MOSS said in the House State Affairs Committee this morning there was an amendment that a person could vote telephonically and move a bill out of committee, but it failed. The committees can now meet in the interim but cannot move a bill. The bill would sit in limbo because it needs to be read across the floor before going to the next committee. MS. COOK said both standing and special committees are allowed under the uniform rules to meet and hold hearings on bills. There is nothing prohibiting a committee from reporting a bill from committee, but there is no mechanism to deliver the report to the Chief Clerk or Senate Secretary. If the matter remains unaddressed in the bill, then there is the problem that the uniform rules require the physical presence at the site where a committee is held for a vote to report a bill from committee. A member attending by teleconference cannot vote, and that may be a greater problem in the interim when members are scattered. 10:14:46 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said the legislature would have to call itself back in for technical sessions. SENATOR STEVENS asked why Amendment 3 by Representative Gruenberg did not pass because it addresses those issues. MS. MOSS said the members want eye-to-eye contact with other members. A legislator may call in from home and have someone passing notes and providing information or influence that other members would not have access to or have knowledge of. 10:17:03 AM SENATOR STEVENS said he understands that, but he asked about the issue of reporting the bill from committee. MS. MOSS said there was no concern about that, it was just about having the same information and access to people. "The only thing this amendment really does is it allows a telephonic vote to move the bill out of committee." SENATOR BUNDE said this is interesting that in the internet age, eye contact is needed. Members have wanted to participate from a hospital and haven't been allowed to. "How many times on the floor would a fellow legislator or a staff member give you a note?" The members in the front might not be privy to that, he stated. If the 90-day session is to save money, requiring flights and per diem of far-flung members needs more discussion. 10:19:36 AM SENATOR FRENCH asked about the requirement of reading a bill across the floor before moving it to the next committee, and if that is in the constitution or in the uniform rules. MS. MOSS said it is in the uniform rules. MS. COOK said the constitution requires three readings, but it is silent with regard to moving the bill to the next committee. The bill is not in second reading until it appears on the floor having been calendared. It is public policy because the legislature can control its own internal procedure, including the referral of bills to committees and the accepting of reports. If a committee report travels from one committee to the next without going to the floor, there is no opportunity for a member to object to that report. That will be lost, she stated. SENATOR FRENCH said he has never seen that happen in his short experience. He asked, "Are we recreating the wheel?" The voters said they wanted a 90-day session. What does it mean to do an enormous amount of interim work? Did the voters not want the members in Juneau for very long, did they want them not legislating for very long, or did they want to save money? He said there will be pressure to get the work done in 90 days. 10:22:02 AM SENATOR STEVENS said the public said a 90-day session, and we have to find a way to cut a quarter out of the time spent. He said there must be a way to allow committees to operate [in the interim], or else the legislature is setting itself up for failure. Serious consideration needs to be given to allow bills to move between committees. CHAIR MCGUIRE said the committee may want to incorporate that into the bill. SENATOR BUNDE said lobbyists would love the provision that a bill dies if it doesn't move out of its originating house the first year because "it will give them another pressure point to really focus on." The voters may want less legislation. If that can't be done, perhaps the number of bills should be limited. 10:24:38 AM MS. MOSS said that provision of a bill dying in the first session died quickly. There has been discussion on limiting the number of bills a legislator could file. SENATOR STEVENS said there is a lot of opposition to limiting the number of bills, but the next step is requiring bills to be introduced prior to session. That would reduce the number of bills, he said. Perhaps only committee bills could be introduced after the beginning of session. CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is a version of that after the 24-hour rule goes into effect. MS MOSS said that is in the second session only, and that deadline may be about the 45th day. 10:26:26 AM MS. COOK said she thinks the personal bill deadline is the 35th day after convening the second session. CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is some precedence for it. SENATOR BUNDE said Senator Steven's idea would increase the influence of the committee chair. He expects there could be a lot of slippage. CHAIR MCGUIRE announced she would hold SB 135 for further consideration.