SB 274-STATE FIREARM DISPOSAL AND INVENTORY  SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT announced SB 274 to be up for consideration. He asked for a motion to adopt the Version I committee substitute (CS). SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER moved Version I as the working document and there was no objection. SENATOR FRED DYSON, Sponsor of SB 274, explained that he would like to make sure that the Department of Public Safety (DPS) continues to get the highest value possible for surplus firearms while expanding the pool of potential buyers to include all Alaskans who are legally qualified to purchase firearms. Under the current system DPS surplus firearms are sold at auctions that are open only to federally licensed firearm dealers. With regard to the issue of liability, he reported that research and legal opinions indicate that DPS would incur no more liability in selling a used firearm than any other piece of used equipment. His intention is for DPS to realize that it doesn't have to continue jumping through hoops to keep from exposing the state to increased liability. 9:14:53 AM DAN SPENCER, Director of Administrative Services for the Department of Public Safety, stated that DPS is reluctant to give up the ability to trade in surplus weapons to acquire new ones. He related that on a number of occasions the department has reached agreement with firearms manufacturers to completely change over all trooper service weapons. In an exchange in 2002 DPS got about 436 Glock 40-caliber firearms with holsters, extra magazines and magazine pouches at no cost to the state. That came about because all duty weapons and all confiscated and unclaimed firearms were traded in at a value of about $227,000. If the department had been compelled to forfeit that opportunity a capital appropriation would have been necessary. He stated that the department is happy to work with Senator Dyson to ensure that it doesn't lose the ability to trade in service firearms. MR. SPENCER brought up the issue of disposing of other firearms in the department's possession. Currently DPS has about 500 but disposal of those will involve the Department of Administration (DOA) because that department is statutorily charged with disposal of surplus state property. What DPS has done with previous trade ins is to get written approval to waive the normal sale process from the chief procurement officer for DOA. The liability issue is a concern for DPS and DOA, but Senator Dyson has indicated that isn't a problem. Noting that Version I speaks to donating firearms to a museum or dismantling firearms to sell as legal parts, he said DPS would be inclined to have DOA work with a gunsmith to accomplish that work. DPS isn't in the business of parting out unfamiliar weapons and the decision about whether a particular firearm part is safe or unsafe is beyond its expertise. A final concern relates to ammunition disposal. What happens now is that it's given to the academy so disposal decisions are made there. He reasoned that because it's difficult to tell whether casings are safe or not, it would make sense to have further discussions about the ammunition issue. 9:20:33 AM SENATOR DYSON asked what sorts of illegal weapons show up in DPS inventory because he's only aware of cannons and those with defaced serial numbers. MR. SPENCER replied a common modification is from semi automatic to fully automatic. Another is a commando style modification, which includes a folding stock to make the firearm more concealable. SENATOR DYSON pointed out that both are fully legal for qualified citizens to own. MR. SPENCER responded even if the bill were amended so that DPS could trade in service weapons, there would still be the issue of cost because department service weapons are well maintained and have good value. SENATOR DYSON said he hadn't thought about the fact that DOA would probably end up doing the disposal. That would entail some work and more than likely the cost of hiring a gunsmith. He asked about whether there should be a signed disclaimer to make it clear that the state assumes no responsibility. He mentioned he had an amendment to institute rigorous inventory and reporting requirements. Although he has full confidence in the current commissioner's integrity he said he worries about a future administration that might decide to destroy legal and valuable weapons as a matter of public policy. MR. SPENCER said he couldn't comment on what a future administration might do but DPS would prefer not to publish an inventory of its weapons until there is a sale. 9:26:13 AM SENATOR KIM ELTON asked Mr. Spencer to comment on the advisability of further defining museum. MR. SPENCER conceded it's a valid point and that DOA should weigh in on that subject. Certainly the department wouldn't be interested in donating machine guns to a roadside museum so further discussion is warranted. CHAIR THERRIAULT asked if the department would get more value from the trade in process than from a direct sale. MR. SPENCER replied that's a tough question because it entails assigning a value to the seized or recovered weapons inventory. Generally, the department gets very good value from the manufacturers when trading in service weapons, but he couldn't speculate what they would get for the other firearms if they went to auction. He mentioned the Department of Administration fiscal note that includes the cost of a gunsmith but didn't include trading in surplus weapons. SENATOR DYSON asked if the DPS budget has a line item for the value gained from the sale of the surplus property. MR. SPENCER said no. SENATOR DYSON suggested that might be part of the solution. SENATOR HUGGINS asked how many sidearm weapons the department has. MR. SPENCER replied about 500 service weapons of one type or another. SENATOR HUGGINS opined that the good will factor of recycling service weapons to the public is beyond the dollar value that might be attached to any particular weapon. MR. SPENCER responded the department doesn't regularly dispose of firearms because it isn't in the business of selling guns. Having the ability to leverage trades has worked well and that's what has been done. The question of whether the department should sell guns at public auctions is the Legislature's purview. Certainly, he said, the department understands the issue of good will. SENATOR HUGGINS mentioned that headlines were made during a previous administration when firearms were cut up. That has caused some people to be skeptical about what happens to department service weapons when they are no longer used in the line of duty, because the only thing they know is that they are never seen again. CHAIR THERRIAULT asked Senator Huggins if he thinks the good will component would mandate that firearms be sold to the public even though the department would get less than it could have gotten if it made a trade-in deal with a manufacturer. SENATOR HUGGINS replied that's exactly what he was saying. It could be a good investment and he would assume that the disparity wouldn't be that great. 9:39:27 AM SENATOR ELTON referenced page 1 line 9 and suggested deleting the word "department" because it isn't clear whether the reference is to DPS or to DOA. The firearms belong to DPS, but DOA actually disposes of the firearms as surplus property. CHAIR THERRIAULT announced he would hold SB 274 in committee.