CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 199 (ELECTIONS EMPLOYEES IN CLASSIFIED SERVICE) as the first order of business before the Senate State Affairs Committee. The chairman calls the first witness. Number 032 BRUCE ARONSON, Office of the Ombudsman, states the Ombudsman continues to support SB 199. Mr. Aronson adds the only other comment Mr. Fowler wants communicated to the committee is that the Ombudsman thinks section 3 is not necessary, given the existing rules for moving folks into classified service. Number 049 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states the committee has an amendment in the bill file which was drafted by the ombudsman and would address section 3. Number 057 SENATOR TAYLOR expresses concern over classifying employees, and asks how one would get rid of someone like Charlotte Thickstun. Number 082 MR. ARONSON responds that, under SB 199, the Director of the Division of Elections would still be an exempt position. SENATOR TAYLOR asks how one would get rid of forty-some incompetent employees at DEC (Department of Environmental Conservation). Number 097 MIKE MCMULLEN, Division of Personnel & EEO, Department of Administration states the department does not have a position on sections 1 and 2 of SB 199, but is opposed to section 3. The Department of Administration supports the amendment to delete section 3. The legislature has already passed provisions for employees whose positions are moved from exempt or partially exempt to classified service. Those provisions are under AS 39.25.150. Mr. McMullen states that the process has worked well in the twelve years since the provisions were passed; those provisions have been used several times. Difficulties and confusion occurs when the legislature writes exceptions to those provisions. Number 147 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are any questions for Mr. McMullen. Hearing none, the chairman calls Mr. Swanson to testify and notes that the committee has two amendments on SB 199. Number 151 JOE SWANSON, Director, Division of Elections states that when he became Director of the Division of Elections, he reviewed the personnel files of the employees and found there was not one employee who met the minimum qualifications for the job they held. As long as the division is subject to the possibility of employees being replaced for other than work related criteria, he thinks that problem will always exist. Mr. Swanson says that it is his opinion from a division director's standpoint, and he has been the director of three different divisions for a total of thirteen years, that if the entire core and all the experience of an organization is removed, it will be almost impossible for that division to function. The State of Alaska could come very close to having a "very bad" election if this kind of thing continues to happen. MR. SWANSON states he does not disagree with Senator Taylor that it is difficult to remove incompetent employees. There are means within the system to remove incompetent personnel, however, the manager has to have the guts to do it. It removing incompetent employees is possible, Mr. Swanson states he has done so several times before. It is painful, and takes a lot of work, but it is better than hiring people with zero qualifications. Number 184 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Swanson if he thinks it should be easier to remove employees who hold classified positions. Number 190 MR. SWANSON responds there has be a balance between protecting classified personnel and being able to remove incompetent persons in classified positions. We would not want a manager to be able to just walk in and fire an employee. Then we would end up with all arbitration being handled through the Court System, which would be much more expensive than handling problems through a personnel-type system. Number 198 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are further questions for Mr. Swanson. Hearing none, the chairman asks if anyone else wishes to testify. Number 200 There being no further witnesses, the chairman offers amendment #1. Amendment #1 is to page 4, lines 12 through 15, and would delete section 3. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any objection or discussion relating to amendment #1. Hearing none, the chairman states amendment #1 has been adopted. Number 211 SENATOR MILLER offers amendment #2 as a conceptual amendment, the amendment being to leave the four regional supervisors positions exempt, and not classify those positions. Number 223 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states he would support that amendment. He thinks the Director of the Division of Elections should have the ability to supervise the field offices. Number 227 MR. MCMULLEN adds he does not think the amendment should stipulate the number of regional supervisors, because it could create a problem if the number of supervisors was to change. SENATOR MILLER agrees with Mr. McMullen's point. Number 235 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states the amendment will just specify "regional supervisors" and not list the number of supervisors. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any discussion regarding the amendment. The chairman asks if there is objection to the adoption of the amendment. Hearing none, amendment #2 is adopted. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks the pleasure of the committee regarding SB 199. SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge SB 199 from the Senate State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations. Number 238 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders SB 199 released from committee with individual recommendations.