SJR 12-SECTION 404 CWA PERMIT PROGRAM  3:35:39 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL announced the consideration of SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 12 Supporting action by the United States Congress to authorize and appropriate adequate funding for states that assume the dredge and fill permitting program under Section 404 of the Clean Water Act; and expressing the intention of the state to assume jurisdiction over the program when funding is available. 3:35:51 PM CO-CHAIR BISHOP, speaking as the sponsor of SJR 12, explained that the resolution states support for the Department of Environmental Conservation's (DEC) efforts to assume the dredge and fill permitting program under Section 404 of the Clean Water Act, and urges Congress to appropriate the funds for states that have assumed primacy. He clarified that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) would still retain veto power under 404(c) as well as dredge and fill permitting authority for federal waters of the US. CO-CHAIR GIESSEL noted who was available to answer questions. 3:37:50 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if the state would have permitting authority for state waters but not for Section 10 waters under the 404 assumption. 3:38:30 PM RANDY BATES, Director, Division of Water, Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), Juneau, Alaska, stated support for SJR 12. He reported that the department was working with the congressional delegation, the funding agencies at the Army Corps of Engineers (Corps) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and representative organizations the state belongs to as it look3 at state primacy of the Section 404 program. He agreed with the sponsor that EPA will retain oversight authority over a state-run 404 program and the Corps will retain permitting authority in the non-assumable Section 10 waters. The state will assume permitting authority in the assumable Section 10 waters. He deferred to Julie Pack to answer Senator Kawasaki's question. 3:40:12 PM JULIE PACK, Assistant Attorney General, Environmental Section, Civil Division, Department of Law, Anchorage, Alaska, confirmed Mr. Bates' statement that once the state assumes the Section 404 program, the Corps will retain authority over the non-assumable Section 10 waters. SENATOR KAWASAKI asked, if the state were to assume 404 primacy, whether permit applicants would be faced with working with both EPA and the state when the waterway has both Section 10 and non- Section 10 waters. MR. BATES responded that it was DEC's intention to provide the applicant with an option in that circumstance. They could go through the Army Corps of Engineers for the entire project or they could get a permit from the Corps for the part of the project that's under the Corps' jurisdiction and get a state 404 permit for the part of the project that is inland of the retained waters boundary. SENATOR KAWASAKI asked under what circumstance an applicant who is interfacing two separate waterbodies would forego working with the state and opt to work only with the federal government. MR. BATES cited the example of a project that has just a sliver of state waters and the rest is non-assumable Section 10 waters. He continued that for a project that is substantially in state- assumed waters or that has some compensatory mitigation requirements that the state could manage more appropriately, the applicant may choose to bifurcate the review process. 3:45:02 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SJR 12; finding none, she closed public testimony. 3:45:26 PM At ease 3:47:08 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL reconvened the meeting and noted that there was an amendment for the committee to consider. 3:47:19 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI moved to adopt Amendment 1 to SJR 12, work order 33-LS0846\A.1, on behalf of Senator Claman. 33-LS0846\A.1 Radford 5/12/23 AMENDMENT 1 OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR CLAMAN TO: SJR 12 Page 1, line 3, following "Act;" Insert "supporting federal funding to locate in  the state a United States Environmental Protection  Agency office that serves the state;" Page 2, following line 10: Insert new material to read: "WHEREAS the United States Environmental Protection Agency office that serves the state is located in Seattle, Washington, which is 1,448 miles away from Anchorage, the state's largest city; and" Page 2, following line 27: Insert new material to read: "FURTHER RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature supports federal funding for the United States Environmental Protection Agency office that serves the state to be located in the state; and be it" 3:47:24 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL objected for purposes of discussion. SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI qualified that he was offering the amendment for Senator Claman who was presenting a bill in another committee. He read Amendment 1 and suggested the department articulate its position on the amendment. CO-CHAIR GIESSEL asked Mr. Bates to comment on Amendment 1. 3:48:11 PM MR. BATES stated that DEC doesn't object to Amendment 1, but believes that it may be redundant as there already is a district office in the federal building in Anchorage for EPA. It is staffed by Region 10, which includes Alaska, Washington, Oregon, and Idaho and that office interacts with Washington DC on a regular basis. He also noted that at one time there was a district office for EPA in the federal building in the capital [city]. 3:49:00 PM SENATOR DUNBAR asked whether the EPA office for Alaska was ever located in Seattle. MR. BATES said he wasn't aware of a district office that was outside the state, but there is a significant Region 10 EPA office in Seattle and DEC works with that office regularly. CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked him to clarify that the EPA district office was in the federal building in the Capital City of Juneau, not the state capitol building in Juneau. MR. BATES said that's correct; EPA district offices are located in federal buildings. SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how many EPA employees were in the Anchorage district office. 3:50:23 PM MR. BATES said he didn't know the exact number but he was aware of several attorneys, some staff, and some higher-level positions that were counters to his supervisor. SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what percentage of the work is being done in Anchorage as opposed to Seattle. MR. BATES said he didn't know but he would follow up with EPA and provide an answer. 3:51:01 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI withdrew Amendment 1 and asked Mr. Bates to provide a response as quickly as possible. CO-CHAIR GIESSEL stated that Amendment 1 has been withdrawn. 3:51:30 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI asked what the impact has been on the general fund since the state assumed the Section 402 program about 12 years ago. 3:52:04 PM MR. BATES said the Section 402 program for wastewater discharge permitting was implemented in phases from 2008 through 2012. The state currently receives about $2.6 million in federal support and the state has been providing about $1.5 million from the general fund, which is a little more than the required 25 percent match, and the permit fees bring another $1.5 million. In total, the 402 program operates on about $5.5 million. DEC estimates that the funding for the 404 program will be $4.9 million in FY2024 and $4.7 million in subsequent years. This includes 32 staff. Current funding for the 404 program would come from the general fund (GF) and the resolution requests federal funding to offset some of the GF. Building the permit fees into the 404 program will offset the general fund requirement much like it currently does in the 402 program. 3:53:59 PM At ease 3:54:09 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL reconvened the meeting. Finding no further questions, she solicited a motion. 3:54:19 PM CO-CHAIR BISHOP moved to report SJR 12, work order 33-LS0846\A, from committee with individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal note. 3:54:33 PM CO-CHAIR GIESSEL found no objection and SJR 12 was reported from the Senate Resources Standing Committee.