SB 176-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIVERSITY  2:19:50 PM CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of SB 176. "An Act relating to the regulation of firearms and knives by the University of Alaska." He said it was the fourth hearing of the bill. He noted the proposed committee substitute (CS), Version Y. 2:20:48 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE moved to adopt CS for SB 176, labeled 28- LS1385\Y, as the working document. CHAIR COGHILL objected for purposes of an explanation. 2:21:50 PM CHAD HUTCHISON, Staff, Senator John Coghill, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented Version Y of SB 176 on behalf of the sponsor. He explained that Version Y focuses on concealed carry. He cited an article called "Despite Policy, Weapons Still Appear on University Campus" that quotes a security officer on the UAF campus. In 1995, the UA Board of Regents established a policy that does not allow anyone to carry concealed guns, knives, and explosives on the university property, inside university buildings and classrooms off campus, or at university-sanctioned events. But, Officer McGee says that Alaska's conceal and carry laws may keep him from enforcing that policy. He said, "As the police chief, and as a resident here in the state of Alaska, I think there's probably a greater number of firearms on campus than any of us really know about; it's just that these people aren't using their firearms to commit criminal acts." MR. HUTCHINSON said this demonstrates three things: there are already firearms on campus, clarity, as it relates to concealed carry, is necessary, and the current policy of UA does not work. He opined that the CS strikes a balance between individual rights to keep and bear arms and the individual rights to privacy. It constitutes a reasonable compromise between concerns of university students, safety in the schools, and the fundamental rights of individuals who have guns on campus. He stated that the fundamental principal of the bill is that the university may not restrict concealed carry. There are certain restrictions that relate to weapons misconduct. He provided a sample of the restrictions. As a compromise, the bill now includes the use of an approved lock box for the weapons and a permitting process is required. 2:29:02 PM HANS RODVICK, Intern, Senator John Coghill, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented information related to SB 176 on behalf of the sponsor. He explained the permitting process of obtaining an Alaska concealed handgun permit. He shared the history of the concealed handgun permit. He listed who could, and could not, carry a concealed handgun. 2:31:32 PM He summarized the requirements to carry a concealed handgun. He discussed the required competency class. It tests knowledge of Alaska laws, self-defense concepts, responsible use, and physical competence with a handgun. A person must go to the Department of Public Safety and pay for the license and submit fingerprints and a digital photo that was taken within 30 days. He opined that these rigorous requirements to obtain a permit strike a balance of public safety and lawful citizens exercising their fundamental rights. He stated that statistics show that these individuals will be lawful and safe. 2:35:08 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE asked how the university received the committee substitute. She submitted that Version Y is well-crafted and provides more safety assurances. MR. RODVICK deferred to Mr. Hutchison. MR. HUTCHISON said he's conferred with the legislative liaison for the university system and the attorney who drafted the legal opinion of the first version of the bill. He said President Gamble would disclose the results of the University Board of Regent's executive session. CHAIR COGHILL said he assured President Gamble that he was taking this legislation seriously. 2:37:33 PM SENATOR DYSON strongly suggested fleshing out the definition of "lock box." He asked if the university regulates pocket knives. MR. HUCHISON agreed to the conversation about a definition of the lock box. CHAIR COGHILL expected to find a solution to this bill by Monday or not at all this year. SENATOR MCGUIRE asked how legalization of the use of marijuana interfaces with the federal requirement of attesting to not being addicted to a controlled substance. MR. HUTCHISON agreed there is an apparent conflict. CHAIR COGHILL opened public testimony. 2:41:53 PM PATRICK GAMBLE, President, University of Alaska, Anchorage, Alaska, answered questions related to SB 176. He maintained that most of the discussion, including the recent presentation, has missed the point of the university's concern. The focus is no longer on fundamental rights of the individual and now deals with a compromise. He stressed that the Board has not changed its position and continues to believe that board policy has been effective. He termed the dilemmas "legal and operational" The legal dilemma is that there are excepted gun carry areas in the state under state law. The question has to be why those areas were excepted - why have they been taken out of those fundamental rights. The answer is risk and safety. The Supreme Court determined that states could make exceptions and Alaska did. He concluded that Board policy is based on those exceptions. He further described the dilemma of trying to map the state law with its concerns, over onto a university community, which has many of the exact same conditions that are listed in the state's exceptions, such as "K - 12 students" and "around a place serving liquor" and "in a residence without the permission of the chief resident." He emphasized that the bill creates unintended consequences that are real world, operational, actions and responsibilities, and liabilities, that the university is uniquely responsible for. He discussed the fiscal note which contains a list of operational provisions that the university would have to put into place in order to get around the exceptions on campus. He opined it would be costly, as reflected in the fiscal note. The number in the fiscal note was taken from the cost of the University of Idaho's operational plan, a single campus. 2:47:27 PM PRESIDENT GAMBLE discussed risk and why there are exceptions to areas where guns can be carried. He stated that the university does not deal in hypothetical scenarios, but in probabilities due to being accountable and liable. The university has a risk assessment system which determines a value for risk. He said the "state of play" today is that the campus is 24 times safer from violence in terms of murder and assault with intent to kill or maim than on city streets in Alaska. He reported only four gun incidents where there was discipline involved at the University of Alaska in the last three years. In terms of risk, the UA campus is one of the safest places to be right now. Increasing the number of weapons increases the probability of accidents. He referred to hundreds of letters from donors, faculty, and students, in opposition to the bill, who say they are not going to stay in a public school that has this law in its current, as-written state. He said in his experience, most accidents in the military were self-induced and the more weapons, the more incidents. He concluded that the bill will not make the campus safer and he has evidence that there is a downside to the bill. 2:52:02 PM He concluded that the bill is a moving target and that isn't impressive. With some pushback there was an effort to compromise rights just to get a bill passed. The Board policy looks good and they are satisfied with it in its current form. His said his assessment is that the probability and liability of what is currently in place are nicely balanced. This bill doesn't enhance that. 2:54:02 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said his perspective is that this is a constitutional issue. In the future he'd like to hear from legal scholars on the issue. CHAIR COGHILL said he agrees. He doesn't believe that citizens check their rights at the university door. He said he is willing to work on the safety issues. PRESIDENT GAMBLE said it has been a good hearing on the bill. He said he supports the dialog with constitutional scholars. CHAIR COGHILL concluded that President Gamble has to manage the campus from a legal and a practical perspective. He said he has to look at the individuals in Alaska and ask about citizen rights. CHAIR COGHILL held SB 176 in committee for further consideration.