HB 175 - EMINENT DOMAIN/FISHING WATERWAYS  4:17:50 PM CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of HB 175. [Before the committee was CSHB 175(JUD) am.] 4:17:57 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAIG JOHNSON, sponsor of HB 175, said last year's eminent domain bill was a direct response to an egregious case in Connecticut where some homes were taken to increase the tax rolls of a city. He said 75 homes were actually taken, and the same thing could have happen in Alaska. The legislation has become a model for real estate communities. "We protected a person's primary residence from being confiscated … through eminent domain within a radius of 250 feet." This bill doesn't change that but extends the two-hundred fifty foot protection to permanent recreational structures. The bill still allows for the legitimate use of eminent domains for projects such as roads, hospitals, schools, public buildings, gas pipelines, and other legitimate undertakings of the government. He said the greatest use of property is "to be in a private person's hands." The bill prohibits taking recreational property for a recreational purpose. He said the bill has been amended to allow the Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) to inventory streams and determine if there is land that can be purchased to provide access. But there is no use of eminent domain for that. 4:21:41 PM CHAIR FRENCH said he thinks the bill is well balanced with the two provisions. SENATOR THERRIAULT asked for clarification that the bill just adds recreational structures. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said yes, but structures must be permanent such as fishing or hunting cabins, and there must be clear title. It wouldn't be a tent that moves around on a lot. CHAIR FRENCH said the 250-foot limit doesn't give carte blanche protection. If a government agency decided to build a recreational facility on someone's 10-acre plot, it would have to be 250 feet away from a cabin. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that's correct. The radius provides for about three acres. CHAIR FRENCH said this bill wouldn't stop a gas pipeline. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said it would not; he has been very careful to protect the legitimate uses of eminent domain while honoring private property. 4:24:20 PM SENATOR THERRIAULT asked for more information on Section 4, page 3, line 21, referring to "at least two and not more than five meander miles along a fishing waterway." 4:24:48 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked Representative Gara to speak to his amendment and noted his support for the amendment. REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA said "meander mile" is a linear distance along a fishing stream. The goal is to see how much public access might be lost in the most important access spots, and not to inventory every piece of private property around the state. He noted Montana Creek, north of Anchorage, where there is over a mile of private land that will impede public access. He gave other examples. He wants the agencies to see how much public access might be lost in the most important areas. "We don't want them to put together a list of 50 miles worth of stuff that they'll never buy, so we cap it at 5 miles for the list. We don't want them to ignore the bill and not do anything, so we say the minimum should about 2 miles." SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if all river access would be included by this bill. He noted the cabins on the Salcha River and said, "I don't know if right now that people feel like access to the Salcha River is getting close to being cut off." REPRESENTATIVE GARA said the reason for the five-mile cap is to give ADF&G and DNR the ability to identify the most important places where public access may be lost. Access is pretty good now, and people aren't kicking anyone off their property. He spoke of undeveloped CIRI lands along some rivers. The point is to buy easements from landowners who want to sell while the land is undeveloped rather than waiting for the conflicts and when land is too expensive to buy. SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if purchased property or easements must be at least five miles. REPRESENTATIVE GARA replied no; the two to five miles don't have to be on a single river. It could be 100 yards on one river and 800 yards on another. "You want them to total somewhere, at least around two miles, and we know that there's at least two miles." He said all of Gibraltar Creek by Lake Iliamna is barred to the public, and there are others. 4:28:46 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if this is a problem in the Lower 48, and if the intent is to purchase small segments here and there to ensure the public has an easement or access to a particular stream or river. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said it depends on the stream. If he could he would take an important stream and try to buy an access corridor for the two miles that the public uses everyday now, but won't be able to use twenty years from now. Some rivers may be so deep that only one access point is needed. Now, in the Lower 48, a person may need a lot of money to be able to fish. SENATOR McGUIRE said she supports Representative Gara's part of the bill. Families that may not have the means for a recreational cabin should have the same ability to enjoy Alaska. This is a forward thinking approach to how the public can enjoy recreational opportunities in the state. 4:31:58 PM CHAIR FRENCH asked what the public is allowed do along the riverfront of a private property. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said current state law allows access up to the high water mark, even if there is no easement. When the state gives away lands, it retains public access along the rivers. Many lands that are in private hands don't have that access, and the stream bank is private. If it were an area of important public access the state may offer to buy a strip along the river. But an owner would not be obliged to sell. SENATOR THERRIAULT noted that mean high water is often above the river, so a person may be able to walk on a bank. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that is the current law, but no one really knows where mean high water is. But you would want more than that narrow strip. The agencies will likely target the undeveloped land-it will be cheaper and have fewer conflicts. 4:35:00 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said once a property owner declines to sell, the property is taken off the list. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that was from a former bill, but the reality is that a person will not be frequently contacted. RUTH BLACKWELL, Associate Broker, Powell Realty, Juneau, said she is representing the Alaska Association of Realtors, and she is pleased with last year's bill and wants passage of HB 175. She is neutral on the second part of the bill, however. 4:37:17 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI motioned to report CSHB 175(JUD) am from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There being no objections, it was so ordered.