HB 168-ELECTRONIC APPLICATION FOR STATE BENEFITS  1:32:34 PM CHAIR WILSON announced the consideration of HOUSE BILL NO. 168 "An Act requiring the Department of Health and Social Services to provide and allow submission of an electronic application for certain state benefits; and providing for an effective date. CHAIR WILSON stated that this was the second hearing and there were amendments for the committee to consider. SENATOR REINBOLD asked if Amendment 1 was W.2. 1:33:38 PM At ease. 1:37:02 PM CHAIR WILSON reconvened the meeting and clarified that Amendment 1 was W.4. 13732 SENATOR REINBOLD moved to adopt Amendment 1, work order 32- LS0639\W.4. AMENDMENT 1  32-LS0639\W.4 Dunmire/Foote 1/25/22 OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR REINBOLD Page 4, line 3, following "application;": Insert "the electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210;" Page 4, line 19, following "website.": Insert "The electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210." Page 5, line 2, following "law": Insert "; the electronic application must inform  an applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210" Page 5, line 7, following "law.": Insert "The electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210." Page 5, line 19, following "law.": Insert "The electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210." Page 5, line 31, following "law.": Insert "The electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210." Page 6, line 15, following "law;": Insert "the electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210;" Page 6, line 30, following "law;": Insert "the electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210;" Page 7, line 15, following "eligibility.": Insert "The electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210." Page 8, line 7, following "law;": Insert "the electronic application must inform an  applicant that a false statement made on the  application will be investigated and is punishable  under AS 11.56.210;" 1:37:14 PM SENATOR BEGICH objected for purposes of discussion. 1:37:37 PM SENATOR REINBOLD stated that Amendment 1 offers a warning that falsified information is punishable under statute AS 11.56.210. SENATOR BEGICH asked the sponsor to comment on Amendment 1. REPRESENTATIVE LIZ SNYDER, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, sponsor of HB 168, deferred the question to the Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS). SHAWNDA O'BRIEN, Director, Division of Public Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), Juneau, Alaska, responded that warning language exists on paper applications and is intended to be on electronic applications as well. 1:39:24 PM SENATOR HUGHES asked whether warning language could be omitted from paper and electronic applications, if not required by statute. MS. O'BRIEN replied that state law and federal regulation require the punishable offense verbiage on electronic and paper public assistance applications. The language is generic rather than application specific. 1:40:33 PM SENATOR HUGHES asked if the warning notice on paper applications is required by statute. MS. O'BRIEN replied yes. SENATOR HUGHES asked if the requirement is by law, not regulation. 1:41:06 PM MS. O'BRIEN answered that it is statutory. 1:41:13 PM SENATOR BEGICH withdrew his objection and stated his support for HB 168 and Amendment 1. SENATOR REINBOLD clarified that Amendment 1 applies to state statute, not federal regulation. 1:41:52 PM CHAIR WILSON found no further objection and Amendment 1 was adopted. 1:42:03 PM SENATOR REINBOLD moved Amendment 2, work order 32-LS0639\W.3. AMENDMENT 2    32-LS0639\W.3 Dunmire/Foote 1/24/22 OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR REINBOLD Page 1, line 1, following "Act": Insert "relating to the duties and authority of  the Department of Health and Social Services;" Page 1, line 7: Delete "shall" Insert "may [SHALL]" 1:42:04 PM SENATOR BEGICH objected for purposes of discussion. 1:42:09 PM SENATOR REINBOLD stated that Amendment 2 addresses the argument of "shall" versus "may." She said that changing the language to "may" allows opportunity and flexibility. 1:42:50 PM SENATOR BEGICH maintained his objection because changing "shall" to "may" would dramatically change AS 47.05.010. The only change needed to AS 47.05.010 for SB 168 is the addition of paragraph (19) on page 4, line 1. He asked if the sponsor supports a change from "shall" to "may. 1:44:21 PM REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER replied that Amendment 2 would create unintended changes to AS 47.05.010 that are outside the scope of SB 168. CHAIR WILSON asked if all Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) public assistance programs would become optional if Amendment 2 were to be adopted. MS. O'BRIEN stated that Amendment 2 would make it optional for the division to implement the electronic application. CHAIR WILSON asked if changing "shall" to "may" in Section 1, page 8, line 1 would allow DHSS to option of providing public assistance. MS. O'BRIEN responded that was her understanding. However, administering public assistance is not an option for federally administered state programs. 1:46:03 PM SENATOR BEGICH offered that Amendment 2 would require a title change and a concurrent resolution. SENATOR HUGHES stated that the use of ayto roll back Medicaid expansion was discussed previously with the sponsor. She asked where in Alaska statute could "may" be put for that purpose. MS. O'BRIEN replied that she was not prepared to answer; "may" would be needed in several places. SENATOR HUGHES responded that she was worried about expanding Medicaid for non-disabled working-age adults. She understands the intent of Amendment 2. but she would not support it because it would require a concurrent resolution and is beyond the scope of SB 168. 1:48:25 PM SENATOR REINBOLD asked how many public assistance programs DHSS offers, how many people receive assistance, and the total budget. 1:48:50 PM MS. O'BRIEN replied that she did not have the number for the entire budget. For FY21, about 300,000 recipients were served. The budget for public assistance was $300 million, and the budget for DHSS was $3 billion. 1:50:03 PM SENATOR REINBOLD opined that AS 47.05.010 must change. The number of people receiving assistance is too high and the budget too big, putting retirement and infrastructure at risk. Amendment 2 would allow the state to have increased sovereignty at a time when federal regulation is controlling Alaska's decision-making, especially in education and health and social services. "May" means the state would be able to get people off dependency and head towards a sustainable future. SENATOR HUGHES said that some paragraphs within AS 47.05.010 should not be optional, such as DHSS's responsibility to recruit quality foster parents and provide child insurance. She opined that she does not want to be pegged as someone favoring Medicaid expansion because Amendment 2 is not the correct mechanism to address it. 1:52:37 PM CHAIR WILSON asked if objection to Amendment 2 was maintained. SENATOR BEGICH maintained his objection. 1:52:40 PM CHAIR WILSON asked for a roll call vote. 1:52:50 PM A roll call vote was taken. Senator Reinbold voted in favor of the motion to adopt Amendment 2 and Senators Hughes, Costello, Begich, and Wilson voted against it. 1:53:16 PM CHAIR WILSON announced that Amendment 2 failed on a 1:4 vote. 1:53:19 PM SENATOR REINBOLD moved to adopt Amendment 3, work order 32- LS0639\W.2. AMENDMENT 3   32-LS0639\W.2 Dunmire/Foote 1/25/22 OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR REINBOLD Page 1, line 2, following "benefits;": Insert "requiring the Department of Health and  Social Services to follow and comply with appropriate  measures from the catalog of security and privacy  controls for information systems and organizations  published by the National Institute of Standards and  Technology;" Page 4, line 7, following "website": Insert ";  (20) follow and comply with appropriate measures from  the catalog of the security and privacy controls for  information systems and organizations published by the  National Institute of Standards and Technology" 1:53:29 PM CHAIR WILSON objected for purposes of discussion. 1:53:35 PM SENATOR REINBOLD stated there had been several discussions on Alaska's cybersecurity. It is the legislature's responsibility to protect the privacy of individuals. Legislative Budget and Audit assisted in creating Amendment 3 to require standards to protect data. Amendment 3 would require DHSS to comply with the measures set by the National Institute of Standards and Technology. 1:54:49 PM CHAIR WILSON stated he supports the concept of statewide security standards. He opined that HB 3 and the Department of Information Technology (OIT) would be a better mechanism for establishing statewide cybersecurity standards. SENATOR BEGICH stated he supports the concept, but security standards should be statewide. Adopting Amendment 3 would require a title change resolution; therefore, he objects to Amendment 3. 1:56:04 PM SENATOR HUGHES stated she would support Amendment 3 and a concurrent resolution for a title change. She expressed her belief that HB 3 deals with widespread disasters, not cyberattack security standards. Due to recent security breaches within DHSS, she favors Amendment 3 until statewide standards are in place. 1:56:54 PM SENATOR REINBOLD affirmed that Amendment 3 requires cybersecurity standards to be established. Protecting data is the legislature's responsibility. 1:57:30 PM CHAIR WILSON maintained his objection and asked for a roll call vote. 1:57:36 PM A roll call vote was taken. Senators Reinbold and Hughes voted in favor of the motion to adopt Amendment 3 and Senators Begich, Costello, and Wilson voted against it. 1:58:10 PM CHAIR WILSON announced that Amendment 3 failed on a 2:3 vote. 1:58:24 PM SENATOR REINBOLD moved to adopt Amendment 4, work order 32- LS0639\W.6. AMENDMENT 4  32-LS0639\W.6 Foote 1/27/22 OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR REINBOLD Page 1, line 2, following "benefits": Insert "relating to data obtained through the  electronic application process;" Page 4, line 3, following "application;": Insert "data obtained by the department through  the electronic application process must be accessible  only to the department and may not be sold to or  accessed by outside vendors;" 1:58:26 PM CHAIR WILSON objected for purposes of discussion. SENATOR REINBOLD read Amendment 4, "data obtained by the department through the electronic application process must be accessible only to the department and may not be sold to or accessed by outside vendors. 1:58:47 PM SENATOR BEGICH asked what DHSS's statutory authority is to secure data. MS. O'BRIEN deferred to Mr. McCutcheon. SENATOR BEGICH clarified that he was asking for DHSS's statutory authority over data because federal and state statutory authority is involved. 1:59:59 PM SCOTT MCCUTCHEON, Department Technology Officer, Finance Management Services, Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), Juneau, Alaska, stated he does not know off-hand the statutes. However, DHSS is required by the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 to adhere to strict privacy and security laws. CHAIR WILSON asked if Ms. O'Brien could identify the statutes. MS. O'BRIEN stated she would provide the statutes to the committee. SENATOR BEGICH stated his belief that Amendment 4 is redundant because numerous confidentiality elements are already in law. He asked why Amendment 4 creates a title change to include data when its purpose is to provide and allow electronic application. 2:02:32 PM At ease. 2:04:19 PM CHAIR WILSON reconvened the meeting and asked if DHSS uses outside vendors to help process or maintain its database or distribute benefits. 2:05:01 PM MS. O'BRIEN replied that the department does not share data with outside vendors to distribute public assistance benefits. Some programs within the division utilize grantees to administer the benefits portion of the program. For example, the Women, Infant and Children (WIC) program is administered through grantees. The grantees do eligibility determinations. They use the state public assistance system for that program. The state issues those benefits on behalf of the recipients. 2:05:56 PM CHAIR WILSON asked if the Childcare Assistance program is within the Division of Public Assistance. MS. O'BRIEN replied that Childcare Assistance is the other program within the public assistance division that utilizes grantees to determine eligibility and issue benefits on behalf of the families participating in the program. CHAIR WILSON asked if outside vendors had access to the division's software program. 2:06:30 PM MS. O'BRIEN replied that grantees are afforded funds and operate a portion of the program on behalf of the state. They are held accountable to the same standards as a state employee. Business associate agreements and memorandums of understanding govern the state's relationship with the grantees. 2:07:10 PM CHAIR WILSON asked if Amendment 4 would prohibit grantees from accessing the database. MS. O'BRIEN opined that the wording would not apply to grantees; she would confirm with Information Technology. 2:08:05 PM SENATOR HUGHES asked if Amendment 4 would prevent outside vendors from reviewing public assistance applications for fraud prevention. MS. O'BRIEN replied that contractors must sign confidentiality documents stating access to information is solely to deliver state-hired services. Her interpretation of Amendment 4 does not prevent the department from hiring services. However, it would be worthwhile to double-check. 2:09:33 PM SENATOR HUGHES agreed that an attorney should be advised. She stated her concern that Amendment 4 might prevent outside vendor fraud assessment. 2:10:06 PM SENATOR BEGICH asked why a title change is necessary if Amendment 4 were to pass. 2:10:42 PM ALEX FOOTE, Attorney, Legislative Legal Services, Anchorage, Alaska, replied that it was deemed necessary by Legislative Legal Services. SENATOR BEGICH stated that in light of the response, he assumes the title change resolution is not necessary. Legislative Legal Services' answer would have been more definitive if a title change were required. SENATOR BEGICH moved Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 4, deleting the phrase on page 1, lines 1 and 2. 2:11:45 PM CHAIR WILSON found no objection and Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 4 passed. 2:11:54 PM SENATOR HUGHES asked if Amendment 4 would pose a problem to the state contracting with outside vendors to do fraud checks on applications. MR. FOOTE deferred to DHSS expertise. SENATOR HUGHES suggested that the language in the bill be changed so that fraud checks are permitted by outside vendors. 2:13:44 PM SENATOR BEGICH stated AS 47.05.020(a) addresses regulations concerning records and the disclosure of information. It specifically creates exceptions for the investigation and misuse of public assistance. AS 47.05.030 addresses the misuse of public assistance lists and records. It explicitly states that data cannot be sold. CHAIR WILSON stated he was not concerned about data being sold or accessed by inappropriate entities. He is worried that a new statute is being created in conflict with an existing statute. He requested Director O'Brien investigate whether there is a conflict and report back to the committee and the sponsor of SB 168. 2:16:17 PM CHAIR WILSON maintained his objection; he asked for a roll call vote. 2:16:25 PM SENATOR HUGHES moved a friendly amendment to Amendment 4. On page 1, line 7, following "outside vendorsinsert "unless those vendors are performing duties on behalf of departments. 2:16:45 PM SENATOR REINBOLD objected to the friendly amendment because it creates an oxymoron and does not protect data from outside vendors. SENATOR COSTELLO objected to the friendly amendment as it permits access to private information. She stated that current statutes address the concerns presented in Amendment 4. SENATOR BEGICH stated current statute addresses the concerns of Amendment 4 and the friendly Amendment. He is opposed to both. 2:18:59 PM SENATOR HUGHES withdrew the friendly amendment to Amendment 4 and expressed objection to Amendment 4 because outside vendor fraud checks should be allowed. SENATOR REINBOLD stated Amendment 4 seeks to protect the beneficiary's data, a legislature's responsibility. She expressed her belief that filing electronically should be optional. 2:20:38 PM CHAIR WILSON maintained his objection to Amendment 4 and asked for a roll call vote. 2:20:44 PM A roll call vote was taken. Senator Reinbold voted in favor of the motion to adopt Amendment 4 and Senators Begich, Hughes, Costello, and Wilson voted against it. CHAIR WILSON announced that Amendment 4 failed on a 1:4 vote. 2:21:13 PM CHAIR WILSON solicited a motion to move the bill from committee. 2:21:20 PM SENATOR HUGHES moved to report HB 168, work order 32-LS0639\W, as amended, from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). 2:21:37 PM SENATOR REINBOLD objected due to lack of Wi-Fi accessibility and cybersecurity . SENATOR COSTELLO said that SB 168 states that applications can be submitted electronically or in writing. SENATOR HUGHES stated that public members concerned about data security should submit written applications. SENATOR REINBOLD expressed concern about using "shall" in SB 168 and stated it is mandating a program. 2:23:23 PM CHAIR WILSON asked for a roll call vote. 2:23:27 PM A roll call vote was taken. Senators Hughes, Costello, Begich and Wilson voted in favor of moving HB 168 as amended from committee and Senator Reinbold voted against it. 2:23:41 PM CHAIR WILSON announced that the motion passed on a 4:1 vote. Therefore, SCS HB 168(HSS) was reported from the Senate Health and Social Services Standing Committee.