SB 52-SALVIA DIVINORUM AS CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE  2:07:51 PM CHAIR DAVIS announced consideration of SB 52. SENATOR THERRIAULT, sponsor of SB 52, said the legislation before the committee is a reintroduction of a previous bill that would move to place salvia divinorum onto the list of controlled substances. This drug is primarily grown in the mountainous regions of Mexico; it has a history of use as a vision-inducing substance by the Aztec Indians of the region. Because it is so easy to misuse and can produce long-term psychological effects, it has been banned in several countries and a growing number of states across the nation. The leaves of this perennial herb, once processed, can be eaten, can be drunk as tea or inhaled. It is presently available to people in Alaska who choose to order it on the internet and, although purchasers of the substance are asked if they are 18 years of age or older, those restrictions are very loosely applied. Sellers promise that it will produce mind-altering experiences, but experts warn that that depression and schizophrenia are very real risks with this drug. SENATOR THERRIAULT said he has received some criticism over the past couple of years for introducing the legislation, by people who say that the if they don't want their children to use the drug, they shouldn't introduce legislation that will generate headlines. That pretends the word doesn't spread over the internet on sites like My Space and Facebook that are frequented by young people. Salvia is enjoying a rise in use due to its powerful effects; he asked that Alaska follow the lead of many other countries and states and put this on the list of controlled substances along with peyote, mescaline and LSD. 2:10:38 PM SENATOR ELLIS asked what Senator Therriault's response would be to the religious freedom argument that some folks have made to the committee and to members of the Alaska Libertarian Party regarding the personal freedom of adults aspect of this issue. 2:11:15 PM SENATOR THERRIAULT answered that he would say, from the libertarian perspective, while he tends to agree with them on many things, this is in the same category as mescaline and LSD and the state does not give people the freedom to order that over the Internet and exercise their free will to use those drugs. The society has realized that there are certain substances that cause damage to the individual and society as a whole that is great enough to justify putting restrictions on them. He did not see the religious argument as any different from the argument surrounding peyote and that has been placed on the controlled substances list. He would guess that if scheduling this drug causes a problem, they already have that problem with the drugs they have listed, yet he does not hear people asking that legislation be introduced to remove the restriction on those other drugs. 2:12:25 PM SENATOR PASKVAN questioned whether Senator Therriault had asked the Alaska Medical Association about this, or if the American Medical Association has produced any type of study that puts this particular drug in a specific category. DAVE STANCLIFF, staff to Senator Therriault, said there has been a fair amount of debate as to how this substance reacts in the mind and it is unique among all other hallucinogenics. There is ongoing research by both the Alaska Medical Association and the American Medical Association with regard to how it might be used safely in a medical setting and this bill does not preclude the use of this substance for medical studies. SENATOR PASKVAN pointed out Mr. Stancliff's use of the term "misuse" and wanted to know what the difference is in these studies between appropriate use and misuse. 2:14:02 PM MR. STANCLIFF said his research has revealed that there is no quality control for this substance, so buyers don't know what they are really getting. Also, frequent users of this and other psychic substances state that they have not found a level that is predictable; there is no way to predict what the reaction will be from one use to the next. Since this is so much more powerful than any other natural hallucinogenic substance, it takes very little to induce a trance or put people into a catatonic state if they use too much; even the most experienced "mind travelers" warn about this particular substance. There is no medical way at this point to measure or determine response. 2:15:46 PM SENATOR PASKVAN assumed this would make users of salvia felons and he wondered why it is classified that way. MR. STANCLIFF said that in some states it is on Schedule I, but they have chosen to put it on Schedule II because it seems to have the same difficult properties as those other substances have. He thinks they will hear from others in the administration who can speak to exactly how Schedule II works in terms of the degrees of criminality involved. Certainly it is no less dangerous, and perhaps far more dangerous, than mescaline, LSD, peyote and other drugs that are on this schedule. It might be worth putting on record that since Senator Therriault started this effort three years ago when he was aware of only one place where a person could obtain this, it has escalated to the point that smoke shops all over state are carrying it and 4,600 sites on YouTube are showing people using it. 2:17:58 PM SENATOR PASKVAN explained that what he is struggling with is the concept of felony vs. misdemeanor vs. infraction for something that he has heard no definitive medical statement about. MR. STANCLIFF said he understands and doesn't know of anywhere that those organizations have made a statement regarding what degree of criminality would be appropriate. 2:18:41 PM SENATOR THERRIAULT added that they are left to make comparisons with the other drugs they have already listed and try to match its effects with those of other substances on the list. MR. STANCLIFF quoted from the Navy's Drug Detection and Deterrence Branch: There has been a recent interest among young adults and adolescents to re-discover ethnobotanical plants that can induce changes in perception, hallucinations, or other psychologically-induced changes. … information provided by abusers indicates that the negative long- term effects of Salvia Divinorum may be similar to those produced by other hallucinogens such as LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) including depression and schizophrenia." The [Drug Enforcement Agency] DEA states "It's a drug of concern because of its wide availability and unknown long-term effects." And DEA spokeswoman Rogene Waite said "...just because it hasn't been scheduled doesn't mean it's safe or healthy.... It's dangerous from what you can see from anecdotal material. 2:20:03 PM SENATOR ELLIS said he has gone on YouTube and watched some of the videos and has no doubt it can be damaging, but wonders if there is anything to include in the packet about the health impacts of the substance to justify making it illegal. 2:21:01 PM SENATOR THERRIAULT said placing it on controlled substance list does just that; it could still be prescribed but is controlled like many medications that pharmaceutical companies determine have a beneficial use but are not available without a prescription. He added that he is not aware of any scientific research showing that it has any specific use; but if that were determined in the future, the fact that it is on this list would not preclude its use. SENATOR THERRIAULT stated that he does have a letter of support from the Advisory Board on Alcohol, Drug Abuse and Mental Health. 2:22:22 PM CHAIR DAVIS said she would think that if there is a concern from a health standpoint someone would be here to testify to that. They have heard this bill twice before and have not heard anything from representatives of any health organizations or the department. CHAIR DAVIS asked the will of the committee. 2:24:02 PM SENATOR DYSON moved to report SB 52 from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). SENATOR ELLIS said he would not object, but wanted it on the record that he will be signing "no recommendation." He thinks there are a few things still to be addressed before this becomes law. CHAIR DAVIS announced that SB 52 is moved from committee.