CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health, Education, and Social Services Committee (HESS) to order at 1:30 p.m. and announced SB 51 WORK CAMPS FOR JUVENILE OFFENDERS to be up for consideration. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, sponsor, said a work camp is an alternative for juveniles in trouble, rather than putting them in McClaughlin. They would have counseling, educational programs, and work details stressing the work ethic. Number 61 SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, said last year she testified basically in opposition to the bill because of its broadness and vagueness. She didn't know how "boot camps" would interface with what we currently have for residential child care. She asked if children would be moved from residential child care into a labor situation. She asked where the funding would come from and which facilities would have to close in order to establish the new program. CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, and President, Southeast Alaska Guidance Association Program (SAGA), commended the sponsor for looking for alternatives, but she has concern with a program that sounds like it is military and work camp oriented. MS. ROBINSON was concerned with the $9,000 fiscal note. She had a handout that explained SAGA which has a comprehensive program for youths that combines the values, goals, and objectives of academic and outdoor education, skills training, and work experience. The youths involved in the program have to be either in foster care, an alcohol treatment program, a youth facility, have learning disabilities, or be low income. She said they received a federal grant of $745,000 and now have a lodge at Amalga Harbor with 30 kids in the program. She was concerned what the model would be with only $9,000, if we're talking about rehabilitation and education, etc. She said $9,000 could put another 10 kids into the SAGA program. Number 177 RANDALL HINES, Youth Correction Specialist, Department of Health and Social Services, was there to answer questions. SENATOR SALO asked him to explain the fiscal note which seemed totally unrealistic. MR. HINES said they view this as enabling legislation that would allow them to go forth and develop a model program. SENATOR SALO said it seemed the title of the bill did not correctly explain that. Number 212 SENATOR PHILLIPS mentioned that the Federal Control Act of 1990 authorizes $220 million for programs with "correctional options." SENATOR ELLIS asked what the educational component of the program would cost? MR. HINES said that currently programs operated by the Department of Health and Social Services have an educational component in them. They would develop their model along the same lines. The educational opportunities in this program would be no different than what they have now in existing facilities. SENATOR ELLIS commented that he had toured the school at McLaughlin Youth Center and it was very inadequate, probably violated every fire code there was. SENATOR ELLIS also asked how this related to Commissioner Rupp's Project Hope. He wanted to be realistic about the costs. MR. HINES said the whole issue of funding the operation of one of these camps is not addressed in the fiscal note, because they don't have a model for it yet. He said these were youth facilities under the Department of Health and Social Services, not the Department of Corrections. There is an amendment for Section 4 that would allow a city or non profit corporation to possibly run a detention facility and he wanted the intent clarified. He recommended eliminating the juvenile detention facility language. Number 310 SENATOR LEMAN said he liked the idea of privatization. He didn't think leaving the language in there would do any particular disservice. SENATOR ELLIS was bothered by the broad authority in the bill. Before he would commit money to a program like that he would have to know the details about it. He said the Department has full authority to apply for federal funds to expand the youthful offender programs and asked why they hadn't taken the initiative in those areas. MR. HINES said there had been a number of discretionary grant programs from the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention for which they have applied and been turned down. SENATOR ELLIS pointed out that they didn't have a very good track record in attracting the federal funds they are depending on for funding this initiative. Number 357 SENATOR RIEGER asked if their commitment to the work camp would be following orders of the court or would HESS be making those decisions. MR. HINES explained under current regulations, once a child has been adjudicated to the custody of the department, it's their decision which facility would be best for the them. Their primary concern is what's in the best interests of the child. One of the fiscal restraints they've had is in placing kids outside the state where the program is best for them. Number 391 SENATOR PHILLIPS asked the committee to look at page 5, Section 7 for what a "work camp" means. SENATOR SALO questioned the validity of the fiscal note. SENATOR PHILLIPS said when the legislature authorizes them to set up the program, they will tell them how much money they can spend. SENATOR DUNCAN pointed out that point holds true only if the facility is operated by the state. If it's operated by a city or nonprofit, it doesn't have to come to the legislature for approval. SENATOR ELLIS says it boggles him that they are thinking of granting so much authority to a department they have had so many problems with over the years in terms of regulations. Number 460 SENATOR DUNCAN said they should look at the model before they authorize the establishment of it. Secondly, if they are having experts from "outside" visit, they should be available to talk before the committee. SENATOR RIEGER said they would hold the bill for further expert testimony.