CSHB 4(JUD):   An Act relating to failure  to report harm or                 
                 assaults of the elderly or disabled.                          
                                                                               
                 David  Gray,  aide  to  Representative  Jerry                 
                 Mackie, sponsor of HB 4, testified in support                 
                 of the  bill.  Pat  O'Brien, Social  Services                 
                 Program Director, Division  of Family & Youth                 
                 Services,  Department  of  Health   &  Social                 
                 Services, spoke to the Department's concerns.                 
                 Discussion was had between  Senators Kerttula                 
                 and  Rieger  regarding  home care  providers,                 
                 their   ethical   responsibility    and   the                 
                 vulnerability of  some elderly people.   HB 4                 
                 was  REPORTED OUT  of  committee  with a  "do                 
                 pass,"  and   zero  fiscal   notes  for   the                 
                 Departments  of   Administration,  Health   &                 
                 Social  Services,  and  Community &  Regional                 
                 Affairs.                                                      
                                                                               
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 4(JUD):                                                
                                                                               
       An Act relating to  failure to report harm or  assaults                 
       of the elderly or disabled.                                             
                                                                               
  Co-chair  Pearce asked  David  Gray, aide  to Representative                 
  Mackie, prime  sponsor of  HB 4, to  return to the  table to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  speak to the bill.                                                           
                                                                               
  David Gray said that HB 4 was  a companion bill to HB 3.  It                 
  would  increase  the  penalties that  exist  for  people who                 
  provided  home  care  services  to  elderly adults  and  the                 
  disabled,  and  make  it  consistent with  other  law.    It                 
  increased  the  penalty  from a  violation  to  a class  "B"                 
  misdemeanor.    An  earlier  version  added harm  to  senior                 
  citizens  as an aggravating factor.  This was taken out.  It                 
  had another provision  that said if a provider was convicted                 
  of  doing  harm,  the court  should  notify  the appropriate                 
  licensing agency.                                                            
                                                                               
  Senator  Kerttula  said  that  a  piece of  legislation  had                 
  already passed regarding this issue.   He thought the social                 
  services people were  required to investigate reports.   Mr.                 
  Gray said he did not know about reporting requirements.                      
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger asked  how this  would tie in  with a  mental                 
  health  professional  or  a family  therapist  in  regard to                 
  professional and ethical confidentiality towards the family.                 
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank asked Senator Rieger if he meant a case where                 
  a  family  member may  confess to  some  abuse to  a parent.                 
  Senator  Rieger  agreed  and  said  the person  that  needed                 
  counseling would not receive the therapy he/she needed.                      
                                                                               
  Mr.  Gray  pointed out  that presently  it  was a  class "B"                 
  penalty to harm  a disabled  person where harm  to a  senior                 
  citizen was only  a violation.   Senator Rieger did not  see                 
  what that had to do with it.                                                 
                                                                               
  Senator Kerttula suggested that health care professionals be                 
  excluded from this bill.                                                     
                                                                               
  Discussion  continued between  Co-chair Frank  and  Mr. Gray                 
  regarding health care providers and reporting of abuse.                      
                                                                               
  Ms.  O'Brien said the  department had wrestled  with many of                 
  these  same  questions.   In  fact, she  heard  testimony by                 
  mental health care providers on these issues.  She said they                 
  support  being  included in  the  mandatory  reporting laws.                 
  Health  care  providers warn  their  clients that  they must                 
  report  violations  if  it  would   come  up  in  counseling                 
  sessions, and it may keep the client from speaking freely.                   
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger again  said that people that  needed the help                 
  may not go for help.  He was not comfortable with  this part                 
  of the bill.                                                                 
                                                                               
  End SFC-94 #43, Side 2                                                       
  Begin SFC-94 #45, Side 1                                                     
                                                                               
  Ms. O'Brien said there was the understanding with reports to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  law  enforcement  officers,  that when  it  was  reported to                 
  social  services,  unless the  law  had been  broken, social                 
  services  could  then  go  into  the  home   and  talk  with                 
  individuals to stop the behavior.  She said when it got to a                 
  criminal level, that was another area.                                       
                                                                               
  Senator  Kerttula  said  this  was  a  problem  with  social                 
  services.  Sometimes it would have to reach a criminal stage                 
  before someone was helped.                                                   
                                                                               
  In  answer to  Senator  Rieger, Mr.  O'Brien  said that  the                 
  definition of  harm would  be revised  under the  vulnerable                 
  adults law if that law passed.                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Kerttula  MOVED for passage  of HB 4  from committee                 
  with individual recommendations.  No objection  being heard,                 
  it was REPORTED OUT of committee  with a "do pass," and zero                 
  fiscal notes for the Department of Administration-#1631  and                 
  Kerttula  signed  "do  pass."    Senator Rieger  signed  "no                 
  recommendation."                                                             
                                                                               
  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD: