HJR 9-CONST AM: PERMANENT FUND; POMV;EARNINGS  HJR 8-CONST AM: GUARANTEE PERM FUND DIVIDEND  HJR 7-CONST AM: PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND  HB 90-PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND; $1000 DIVIDEND  HB 72-PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND; 75/25 POMV SPLIT 9:22:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9, "Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to the Alaska permanent fund and to appropriations from the Alaska permanent fund" and HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 8, "Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to the Alaska permanent fund and appropriations from the Alaska permanent fund" and HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7, "Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska requiring payment of a dividend to eligible state residents" and HOUSE BILL NO. 90, "An Act relating to income of the Alaska permanent fund and the amount available for appropriation; relating to appropriations from the earnings reserve account; relating to the amount of the permanent fund dividend; and providing for an effective date" and HOUSE BILL NO. 72, "An Act relating to use of income of the Alaska permanent fund; relating to the amount of the permanent fund dividend; relating to the duties of the commissioner of revenue; and providing for an effective date." 9:22:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE opened public testimony on HJR 9, HJR 8, HJR 7, HB 90, and HB 72. 9:24:01 AM JOHN MILLER, representing self, stated that he is in support of returning back to the original permanent fund dividend (PFD) formula, which he said has been successful for the last 35 years. He said that in 2016, the process was destroyed, and has been a major contention ever since. He offered his understanding that the people feel betrayed and feel that the legislature no longer has the people's best interests in mind. He said the permanent fund is used to pay back special interest groups and unions who funded their elections. He urged members to follow the law and the original PFD formula. He warned that until the PFD is returned to the original formula, there will be contention. 9:25:55 AM ED MARTIN, representing self, shared that he's been a resident of the state for over 50 years. He further shared that family member Ed Martin, Sr. was a lawmaker in 1999 and was part of the "save the dividend" campaign. He suggested that those in the committee might remember the advisory vote, in which the legislature was recommended to never touch the PFD process, as it was established in 1982, which entails a full statutory PFD. He stated that some members of the committee voted for budgets that defy statute, and further stated that the Alaska Supreme Court's actions did not mandate that the legislature could defy statute. He referred the sponsor statement for HJR 7 [included in the committee packet], in which notes that the draws are sustainable, which he opined is a lie. He stated, "No one in that room has a crystal ball." He said the proposed $1,000 PFD within HB 90 is a slap in the face to the people that own the resources, as well as the investments and the return on the investments. He stated that he is in support of a PFD constitutional amendment. He said it is unimaginable that a constitutional amendment would be required to make the legislature follow the law. 9:28:27 AM MISTY COLE, representing self, said she supports HJR 7 and HJR 8 and opposes HB 72, HB 90, and HJR 9. 9:29:41 AM DONALD MITCHEL, representing self, shared that he has lived in Alaska for 51 years. He said there are many benefits to his living in Alaska, one of which he highlighted was having competent and consistent government services without having to pay a state tax. However, he stressed that things have changed, and there is now inadequate or inconsistent funding for state services. He said the roads in his area are horrible, the Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS) is unreliable, and funding for state employees is difficult. He stated that the way the PFD is structured hurts the elections process, in that, the amount of the PFD is being used as a tool to pay for votes. He said HB 72 would provide reliability and consistency to state services and the PFD. He urged support for HB 72. 9:30:49 AM SARAH CAMPBELL, representing self, shared that she is a public school teacher and has lived in Alaska for 48 years. She said she is a supporter of increasing the base student allocation, and would also like to see the state return to a defined benefit retirement package for state employees, but said that will cost money. She stated that she is a proponent of fully funding state services. She commented that HB 72 seems fair, in that Alaskans will get a PFD and know there will be money for state services. 9:32:48 AM MICHAEL GARHART, representing self, commented that, out of the bills up for testimony today, he only supports HJR 7. He explained that there has been too much PFD money taken from the public. He stated, "Since the 1990s, it was tracked: $27.3 billion had been stolen prior to deposit into the accounts." He said that the legislature was questioned for 10 years, and answers were never given. He said the state needs to follow the law. 9:33:48 AM ANTONIA LENARD, representing self, opined on the "legalese" language in the materials provided in today's meeting. She said that the original founder of the PFD was getting a stake in Alaska's land and resources, and the residents were supposed to be paid out of the funds that were generated by people profiting. She spoke on the 75/25 percent of market value (POMV) split, and said that the split should instead be 25/75. She suggested that the need for state funding would go away since residents would have enough money individually to carry out state services, like building a school. She said that anytime the legislature seeks to draw from the fund, then the draw should be put to a vote. 9:36:03 AM BERT HOUGHTALING, representing self, urged that, out of the bills that are being taken up at today's meeting, only HJR 8 be allowed to move forward. He referred to the other bills as "putting lipstick on a pig," in which the bills seek to put further legislative control on the PFD. He explained that HJR 8 would put the corpus into legislative control. He said that combining the corpus and the permanent fund would make it so legislators now also have control over the corpus. He said he supports HJR 7 so far that it formalizes what has been in Alaska statute for the last four decades. He pointed out that Legislative Legal Service's definition of "shall" and "may" might be the clinical definition in a dictionary but does not compare to the definition provided in Wielechowski v. State. He relayed that the Alaska Supreme Court ruled that "shall" and "may" have the exact same meaning. 9:39:01 AM SARANA SCHELL, representing self, stated that she is calling in support of the sustainability of the permanent fund. She said that, while large dividends are great, she is willing to put a cap on the PFD. She said she supports the cap since it would help with the sustainability of the fund. 9:40:07 AM JAMELIA SAIED, representing self, shared that she has been a resident for 61 years. She said that the PFD has served a valuable purpose, but said she thinks it is time to end it and reestablish an income tax. Since that does not seem politically possible, she remarked, she supports whichever bill proposes a smaller PFD that the state can provide. She said that is reflected in Representative Groh's bill. She urged that the state needs to stay conservative, and that if the state distributes a full PFD, it will not have the money for state services. 9:42:23 AM ROYAL KIEHL, representing self, said he and his family have lived in Alaska since 1974, and at that time the state levied an income tax. He commented that the state has, without intending to do so, turned into a welfare state, with every citizen believing they cannot live without their PFD. He said the state cannot afford to live up to the state's responsibilities because of the annual payouts. He said the PFD has become an addiction. He stated that large PFDs have interfered with paying for quality education, as well as adequate ferry service, as examples. He stated that while it may be painful to give up the annual "moneybombs, the situation has gotten out of hand, with people believing it is their right to get money they have not worked for. He suggested that the PFD amount be reduced to $1000, with annual inflation increases, and fund state services with the rest of the earnings. He said there should be a year before HB 90 is implemented to allow residents time to process the change. 9:44:46 AM RACHEL LORD, representing self, stated she is testifying to support an increase in state revenues through higher reliance on permanent fund earnings in order to fund state services. She stated her support for HB 72. She echoed comments regarding raising broad based revenues in the state being the right way forward, or so too could be the combination of income tax and a reduced PFD. She said that at the borough level, specifically in the Kenai Peninsula Borough, citizens pay for the services they receive via property and sales taxes. This funding goes toward schools, roads, and state troopers. She spoke on economic development and said that businesses can only thrive when there is stability in the public sector. She said she cannot see how things will get better without actual financial investment, and pointed out that everyone is benefitting from state services. 9:46:59 AM The committee took an at-ease from 9:46 a.m. to 9:49 a.m. 9:49:00 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE handed the gavel over to Chair Carpenter. 9:49:31 AM DIANNE HOLMES, representing self, echoed previous testimony regarding the benefits everyone receives in untaxed services, but recognized that oil revenues are volatile. She stressed that state services should always come first. She said the past few years the state has had to face the COVID-19 pandemic, and now it must face educational needs. She said that of the PFD plans before the committee today, those proposing a percentage of split will always impact services. She stated that Alaska does not need larger PFDs if that means services are gone as a result. She urged members to listen to economists, and said that a 25/75 split will take away from state services. 9:51:26 AM JAN CONITZ, representing self, said she has been concerned about the PFD debate the last few years, and the time the legislature has spent on the discussion. She said the PFD is a symbolic "good thing" rather than the check being used as a part of needed household income. She opined on the level of state services and highlighted AMHS and public schools as examples of programs in decline and in need of attention and funding. She said she is concerned about the amount of time the legislature has taken discussing the PFD, and further said she fears the state is going to go bankrupt trying to pay out high PFD payments. She acknowledged that PFDs are a symbolically good thing, in they it provide a sense of ownership to the resident, but opined they should only be considered symbolic. She said the annual PFD debate is "crowding out" discussion on policy, one of which she suggested is education policy. She further suggested better support toward transportation, university, economic development, care for seniors, and people with disabilities. She stated that she supports an income tax. 9:54:50 AM RANDY GRIFFIN, representing self, stated that his comments focus on HJR 7 and HJR 8. He expressed his feeling that the PFD has no place in the Alaska Constitution, and acknowledged that he has received thousands from PFD payments, but stopped in 2014 to begin returning the check to the state. He said he is against enshrining the PFD into the Alaska Constitution because he is in favor of a dividend funded by surplus profit. If it is not funded by surplus profit, then he said he would consider it public assistance. He stressed that "hand-out" money should not go into the Alaska constitution, and that while he said he loves free money, he will only collect a PFD if it is a PFD based on surplus. 9:57:23 AM NICOLAS ABRAMCZYK, representing self, commented that Alaska did a good thing in establishing the permanent fund itself, and he noted how the fund has grown. He advised members that they need to look at the economic context of Alaska in the 1980s, the population it had at the time, which he suggested was about one- third of what it is today. He pointed out that, just in the last ten years, there have been economic challenges that were not present in the 1980s. He spoke on the bills before the committee, and advised members to first examine the state's revenue streams. 9:59:01 AM PHILIP TAFS, representing self, shared that he is a small business owner in Alaska with 28 employees. He stated that he believes state services need to be funded first. He said he loves the PFD, but does not believe that Alaska can have large PFDs without it impacting state services. He expressed opposition to adding language in the constitution and making things permanent, and stressed that the state needs to maintain flexibility in how programs are funded. He said that as a small business owner he needs consistency, a way to be able to plan for something, without having every legislative session bring him fear since he does not know what might come out of the session. He expressed frustration from having to wait until the last minute in August for a special session, and said it creates a difficult business environment. He said that anyone who needs the PFD to get by needs state services more, which as a small business owner, would allow him to grow his business. 10:01:55 AM CANDY MILLER, representing self, shared that her family switched to a different health insurer, they saved 70 percent on their expenses. She said the Alaska budget could go from red to black if people choose their own health insurance. She said that if more money is taken out of government and put to individuals, the individuals would make decisions that would save the government money. She said she learned that, while she was changing her healthcare plan, that a teacher in the Matanuska- Susitna valley was paying $20,000 for their plan, and the plan she herself was $2,000 a year. CHAIR CARPENTER interjected to request that Ms. Miller testify to the bills under public testimony today. MS. MILLER said she is in favor of HJR 7. She said the money from the permanent fun should go into the people's hands. She said there is then no concern on whether to raise taxes because the people will direct it. 10:05:12 AM MICHAEL BUCY, representing self, shared that he has been a resident of Alaska and has been receiving a PFD since 1982. He said he would support putting language into the constitution only if it were to cap the PFD payout. He shared that he was flabbergasted when the governor announced a $4,000 PFD, in conjunction with no BSA increase, which prompted him to rally at the capitol. He said he appreciates what the PFD has done for his family, and that others may rely on the PFD, but what he would like to see is robust welfare funding instead. He opined that millionaires don't need the PFD and shouldn't receive it. He said the function of government is to perform economically what the individual cannot. He said that right now residents are depending on the government. He remarked that government is not the problem, bad government is. He said that people are leaving Alaska despite high PFDs, and urged that that be turned around, and that the PFD no longer be an annual debate. 10:08:49 AM GEORGE PIERCE, representing self, spoke to education funding, in that the government sent schools funding during the COVID-19 pandemic, which he said was being used to refurbish schools. He stated that Alaska needs an income tax and to get people who are not living in the state to pay their fair share. He advocated raising the tax on oil and mining. CHAIR CARPENTER stated that the public testimony is specifically for bills relating to the PFD. MR. PIERCE advised to mandate the PFD in the Alaska Constitution. He suggested that if the state needs resources, get rid of the subsidies. He further suggested taxing individuals coming up to conduct tourism business. He said there are other kinds of revenues to generate, but said the legislature wants to take it from poor Alaskans. He reiterated his suggestion to raise taxes on the oil and gas companies. 10:11:13 AM HAROLD BORBRIDGE, representing self, stated that the public needs to realize that every dollar the state receives is from the people, whether it be paid with the people's resources or the permanent fund's returns, because every dollar spent is either from oil resources or from the permanent fund. He suggested that a simple handout be made explaining the sources of state revenue. 10:12:46 AM WILLY KEPPEL, representing self, prefaced by urging members to follow state statute and pay a full PFD. He suggested that baseline spending be set at $4.2 billion so that the state's tax and futures revenue can actually pay for state services. He reminded members that Alaskans paid for three extra special sessions a number of years ago, and opined on the outcome of the sessions. During committee hearings in a previous session, he said there was a testimony that stuck out to him: there is no problem in paying a PFD because the state has had the money, but the legislature as of late has been opting to take money from the PFD. He further recounted the statement that prior to actions made during the Walker Administration, money going toward PFDs never went through the legislature. Following this testimony, he further recounted, Senator Lyman Hoffman inquired as to why the legislature did not follow the law on PFDs, to which the answer was that the legislature does not have to follow the law. He reiterated his call to members to pay a full PFD and cut spending. 10:16:08 AM TIM WILKINS, representing self, agreed with comments made by Mr. Keppel. He recounted that in 2015 the Walker administration had moved to take 50 percent of everyone's PFD and expressed his own disagreement with that action. He suggested that the PFD be enshrined in the Alaska Constitution. He said that the state of Alaska needs to balance its expenses, and urged that money taken out of one pot and put into another, be replaced. He expressed his support for the Dunleavy administration. 10:18:18 AM PAULINE HESSING, representing self, thanked the committee members for talking about the PFD. She said that she considers debates on the amount of the PFD wasted time, and would rather like to see the legislature debate other pressing matters. She suggested that the PFD be capped at $1,000, and that anything over that amount would be considered money that the people are giving to the state to use for services. She pointed out there is no income tax in Alaska, and suggested that her idea would be a mechanism that would function like an income tax. She stated that permanent fund earnings are not for the individual but are owned by all Alaskans. She said that if the PFD was capped at $1,000 a year, it would also be less of an enticement for people who have no money and want to come to Alaska for free money. 10:20:01 AM The committee took a brief at-ease at 10:20 a.m. 10:20:05 AM CHAIR CARPENTER made comments regarding the committee's intent to hear further public testimony. 10:21:47 AM The committee took an at-ease from 10:21 a.m. to 10:31 a.m. 10:31:45 AM LEONARD MILLER, representing self, stated that he could support HJR 7 and HJR 8 but needs more information. He said his concern with bills that deal with the permanent fund is that, without research and legal understanding, the ordinary Alaska resident will find it hard to make an informed decision, but could still make an informed decision about what candidate to elect. As far as what is fair for the permanent fund, he said residents share the fund's wealth, which he said encourages him to do what he is doing now: advocating to defend the principal of the PFD. Since a vast majority of residents do not have mineral rights in the state, he explained, the minerals are part of the residents' corporate royalties, and former Governor Jay Hammond's vision was that Alaska residents would share in the earnings so that residents would stay engaged in limiting the growth of government. He urged members to not steal the resident's royalty. 10:34:22 AM LILA HENDERSON, representing self, disclosed that she is registered Republican. She stated that she does not support HB 72 and HB 90. She said she backs HJR 8 and parts of HJR 7, and is overall in favor of constitutionalizing the PFD. She expressed that the state is taking more and more of the PFD, and opined that the people are entitled to their royalties. She echoed Mr. Millers comments on that matter. 10:35:34 AM JAMES SQUYRES, representing self, stated that he supports a full statutory PFD. He commented that the public has testified for many years for a full statutory PFD. He urged members to think about the people that have testified for the PFD before, and that, just because the people are not in the committee room today, does not take away from past testimony. He said he does not support putting the POMV in the Alaska Constitution unless the earnings reserve is rolled into the permanent fund. He asked for the difference between statutory PFDs not previously paid, and refundable oil and gas tax credits. He pointed out that rolling the earnings reserve into the permanent fund ends the PFD payback, which he said is still owned to residents in the state. He advised members to repeal SB 26 [30th Legislature], which he said put the POMV into statute. He noted that last year the administration had the POMV PFD in the budget, but there was no effort to repeal SB 26 [30th Legislature]; and commented that, if Alaska wants to go back to the way it was with the PFD, what's taken place needs to be unraveled. He suggested that putting the POMV and full PFD into the Alaska Constitution put the "squeeze" on funding for government. 10:37:56 AM JEAN HOLT, representing self, Testified in opposition to HB 72. She stated government has taken away freedoms, and that the PFD should be enshrined in the Alaska Constitution. She said there are people who are opposed to the PFD being taken away. She further urged members to not mess with the PFD. 10:39:17 AM The committee took an at-ease at 10:39 a.m. 10:39:54 AM GARY MCDONALD, representing self, stated that he supports the regular PFD formula that Alaska had for about 30 years. 10:41:12 AM RYAN BROUSSARD, representing self, inquired about the number of active military who are receiving a PFD. He explained that in boot camp he was told to go to Alaska, do a short tour, and collect the PFD for the rest of his career. He said this process is recommended to people, and recounted that, in Virginia, there were many Alaska license plates. He expressed concern that a large number of PFDs are going out of state, and also out of the country. He said that he and his family relied on the PFD, and that the PFD should be returned to statutory levels. 10:43:20 AM The committee took back-to-back at-eases from 10:43 a.m. to 10:47 a.m. to await arrival of the final testifiers of the day. 10:47:57 AM LAURA HECKERT, representing self, called for the passages of HJR 7 and HJR 8. She said she wants a PFD payout to be done using the previous distribution formula. 10:49:18 AM The committee took an at-ease from 10:49 a.m. to 10:52 a.m. 10:52:09 AM WILLIAM REINER, representing self, stated that he is in favor of HJR 8, and expressed disagreement with HB 72, HB 90, HJR 7, and HJR 9. He highlighted that in HJR 9, and stated that there is no need for the bill as it "muddies the water." He shared that he's been an Alaska resident since 1976 and was around for the start of the PFD. He referred to the U.S. Supreme Court case, Zobel v. Williams, and said he is leaning towards the decision the court made. Regarding mineral and gas royalties, he disclosed that he is not an Alaskan Native, and due to a 1948 law, he cannot access any minerals, oil, or gas on property he owns. 10:55:55 AM JOEL SIGMAN, representing self, testified in support of HJR 7 and said he wants a full PFD. He opined on proper public notice of legislation. He said he is tired of the legislature stealing people's money and budgeting improperly. He stated that all residents should get a full PFD. He urged members to not take the money from the people and to give it back to the people. 10:58:15 AM SYBIL CURRY, representing self, shared she has lived in Alaska for 20 years and is a legal immigrant from a socialist country. She further shared she is a U.S. citizen, a law enforcement veteran, and that her grandparents survived Nazi Germany. She stated that what is happening in America is horrible, noting that several banks have crashed. She said the people want an original statutorily determined PFD, and she recommended that the PFD be enshrined in the Alaska Constitution. 11:00:00 AM CHAIR CARPENTER reminded the public that they can submit further comments electronically.