HB 263-TRANSPORTATION SERVICES FOR HUNTERS  2:34:49 PM CO-CHAIR WOOL announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 263, "An Act exempting certain water taxi operators from regulation as transportation services by the Big Game Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective date." 2:35:26 PM JAYME JONES, Staff, Representative Gary Knopp, Alaska State Legislature, paraphrased from a prepared sponsor statement, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]: AS 08.54.790 exempts certain air taxis' from having to obtain a transporter permit from Alaska Department of commerce, community, and economic development if; carrying big game hunters is only an incidental portion of their business; if they do not charge more than the usual tariff or charter rate and do not advertise transportation services or big game hunting services to the public. [House Bill] 263 would add licensed water taxis', meeting the current stipulations of air taxis', to this exemption. According to big game commercial services, in the 2017 calendar year only nine transporter permits were issued statewide by DCCED. To operate as a water taxi, you must also comply with the Untied [sic] States Coast Guard and all other state licensing regulations. This exemption would allow individuals to travel to the hunting grounds by their choice of water or air taxi. Currently water taxi operators incur additional burden and expense of obtaining another permit that is not required by the exempt air taxi operators. The inclusion of the water taxi operators levels the playing field for both means of transportation providing "incidental" services to hunters. 2:37:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE GARY KNOPP, Alaska State Legislature, prime sponsor of HB 263, stated that the legislators know there are no simple bills, and although some have expressed concerns, he has found substantial support for the bill. He said that this bill addresses an issue of equality for water taxi operators. An exemption in statute already existed for air taxi operators and this bill, HB 263, would expand that exemption to water taxi operators. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP reported that these statutes were amended about 10 years ago. He has spoken to some prior Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) members about water taxi operators and they advised him that the topic of water taxis did not arise. He introduced the bill at the request of a water taxi operator, after reviewing the statutes pertaining to air taxis, he said. 2:39:27 PM CO-CHAIR STUTES stated that she has received several concerns. She related her understanding that with an air taxi service, the plane flies in, drops off hunters, and flies out. She has heard concern expressed that water taxi services bring in hunters, drop them off, then the plane stays in the area, and the pilot could conceivably scout around and/or move hunters, effectively providing guiding services without a license. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded by saying that currently a water taxi operator with transporter permits could violate guiding laws. He characterized the water taxi services as incidental to the operators' business. He acknowledged that anything is possible, but he did not think it was too big of an issue. Currently, only 140 transporter licenses are issued in the state; however, the department was unable to distinguish between transporters using airplanes and those using other types of vehicles. He anticipated that this bill was likely to affect Southeast Alaska, Kodiak, and perhaps Southcentral Alaska. Currently, the Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS) transports many hunters to areas such as Kodiak. He reiterated that the type of activity Representative Stutes mentioned was outside the rules. 2:42:46 PM CO-CHAIR STUTES acknowledged that some of the concern expressed pertained to black bear populations in Southeast Alaska that could be directly impacted by hunters, who could easily move to the game with access to air taxis. She remarked that reduced state funding translates into [little or] no enforcement. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP reiterated that the Chair of the Alaska Board of Game (BOG) [Ted Spraker], among others he contacted, did not anticipate any increased hunting pressure. He recalled that in recent years the bag limit for black bears was five, although it may recently have been reduced to three bears per calendar year. He offered his belief that water taxi operators would self-regulate in terms of numbers of hunters. Thus, he did not anticipate this change would result in any additional hunting pressure. He reiterated that [Mr. Spraker, Chair, Board of Game] said the board could use permits or other means to limit over harvesting. 2:44:35 PM REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN, referring to page 2 [lines 5-14, to AS 08.54.790(12)(B), sub-subparagraph's (i) and (ii)] of HB 163, which outline the two prohibitions for water taxi operators in the bill. Sub-subparagraph (ii) would prohibit the water taxi operator from advertising, for big game services, which relates to Representative Stute's concern. Second, sub-subparagraph (ii) does not allow the water taxi operator to advertise transportation services. He related that in his experience he has never seen a service that did not advertise their transportation services. He offered his belief that would seem to disqualify all water taxi operators. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP recalled that at the time the existing law was written, the legislature provided this exemption to recognize some air carriers transported equipment. He offered his belief that the legislature did not "cross the lines" between those who take a larger percentage of their business from transporter services without being guide-outfitters. The exemption states that [an air taxi] service cannot advertise as a transporter or charge a premium, but the key was that these services were "incidental" to their businesses. 2:46:57 PM REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he might be misreading the statute; however, it seemed that if a transportation business advertises that it provides transportation services in Prince William Sound, the water taxi operator would be exempted from the statute and not be able to provide services to hunters since the operator advertises transportation services. He said he understood why advertising big game services would exclude air and water taxi operators from transporting hunters; however, he did not understand why transportation services would exclude them. 2:48:11 PM REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP, referring to sub-subparagraph (ii), on page 2, line 9-11, of HB 263, directed attention to the definition of "advertise," which read [original punctuation provided]: ... "advertise" means soliciting big game hunters to be customers of an air taxi operator, [OR] air carrier, or water taxi operator for the purpose of providing air or water transportation to, from, or in the field. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP said he interpreted this to mean that the water taxi operator can advertise as a transporter but may not specifically target the hunting industry. 2:48:47 PM REPRESENTATIVE KOPP agreed with Representative Knopp, that the section relates to soliciting big game hunters. REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he thinks that his concern was misplaced. 2:48:54 PM CO-CHAIR WOOL related his understanding that this language would exempt the water taxi from regulation as transportation services. He asked the reason to exempt them and whether there is any distinction between transporting a kayaker from transporting a hunter from point A to point B since water taxi operators currently follow these [statutes]. 2:49:27 PM REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded that the exemption currently does not apply to water taxis, only to air carriers. Currently, anyone running a boat for hire for any purpose cannot drop off hunters with hunting gear, no matter how incidental the service might be. He said this came to his attention when a water taxi operator got into trouble for transporting a frequent customer. The water taxi operators could not provide hunting services to a loyal customer. The water taxi operators were concerned about sending his/her client to another water taxi, which could potentially erode his/her client base. 2:50:40 PM CO-CHAIR STUTES asked the reason current water taxi operators would be opposed to this. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered that a licensed taxi operator who also had a transporter permit was concerned because it would add some additional competition. Another water taxi operator who previously had a transporter license also had an issue, but he could not recall the reason that water taxi operator was opposed. 2:52:11 PM MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director, Resident Hunters of Alaska (RHAK), Fairbanks, Alaska, stated that he also served on the Transporter's Committee of the Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB). He said that RHAK wants all hunters to have equal access to the field by commercially licensed and insured carriers, whether by air taxi operators or water. MR. RICHARDS emphasized that this bill would grant the same exemption to water taxi operators as it does to air taxi operators, who are licensed and regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). It would only apply to the carriage of hunters as an incidental part of a water taxi operator business. He pointed out that "incidental" is key in the definitions AS 08.54.790. 2:55:33 PM MR. RICHARDS, paraphrased from the [RHAK] letter of January 27, 2018, which read, in part, as follows [original punctuation provided]: The FAA licenses and regulates air-taxis, and the Coast Guard licenses and regulates watertaxis (sic). A Part 135 air-taxi that operates under the current exemptions to provide transportation services to big game hunters without holding a transporter license is no more or less qualified, or less safe, than flying with an air-taxi that holds a transporter license. The same would be true for water-taxis with the same exemption. 2:53:55 PM MR. RICHARDS said that the RHAK does not believe the state should have been involved in the transportation services industry, to further regulate air and water carriers who transport one certain class of clientele. He asked why the legislature would ever tell a business what it can charge, whether it can advertise, and what type of clientele it can accept. In fact, that is what the AS 08 statutes do, which negatively affect resident hunters. Any opposition to this bill as it relates to hunter crowding and overharvest concerns is under the sole authority of the Alaska Board of Game (BOG) to address. He pointed out it is currently illegal to direct hunters to animals or to help butcher or transport an animal. He said the RHAK hopes many aspects of AS 08 will be removed as this bill moves forward. He thanked members for their time. 2:56:25 PM JANEY MCCULLOUGH, Director, Division of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing, Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development (DCCED), introduced herself. 2:56:16 PM CO-CHAIR WOOL prefaced his question, noting he does not use water taxi services or hunt big game. He asked for clarification on terminology. He asked whether there was a distinction between regulations governing water taxi operators transporting him for camping, recreation, or big game hunting if he decided to use a water taxi operator to do so. MS. MCCULLOUGH deferred to Henry Tiffany, Chair, Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) to answer technical questions. Since he was not available, and although said she is not an expert, she offered her belief that an air taxi or water taxi operator would need to have a transporter's license if the operator transports hunters. 2:57:35 PM CO-CHAIR WOOL asked whether a transporter's license is different than a license a water taxi operator would need. MS. MCCULLOUGH answered that the division does not regulate water taxi operators, which are under the jurisdiction of the US Coast Guard. CO-CHAIR WOOL directed the question to Representative Knopp. REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP said during the discussion for this bill, that some believe the transporter licensure is not necessary. He recalled back in the 80s that transporter licensure was instituted when many nonresident hunters who thought they were booking guide services were simply dropped off by air carriers. Since clients were confused about the type of services being provided, the BGCSB established transporter licenses to differentiate between big game guide-outfitter services and air taxi transportation services. [HB 263 was held over.]