TAPE 94-10, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIR FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:10 p.m., and told the committee that, although the sponsor or sponsor's staff was not present, the committee would consider HB 330. HB 330 - FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS Number 002 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY proposed amending HB 330 so that wherever the term "natural gas" shows up in the bill text "or liquid petroleum gas" would be added. Number 012 CHAIR FOSTER asked Jeffery Ottesen if he saw any problem with the proposed amendment. Number 013 JEFFERY OTTESEN, Chief of Right-of-Way and Environment, Department of Transportation & Public Facility (DOT/PF), stated that the proposed amendment made sense. Number 019 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS moved to adopt the CS for HB 330. CHAIR FOSTER asked if there was objection. There was none, and the CS for HB 330 was adopted. Number 022 CHAIR FOSTER noted the arrival of Jeff Logan, staff to the sponsor of HB 330, and asked him if he had any objection to the proposed amendment. Number 024 JEFF LOGAN, Staff, Representative Joe Green, Prime Sponsor of HB 330, stated that not having asked Representative Green, he could not make such a determination and it would be up to the committee. Number 046 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Representative Vezey if liquid petroleum gas (LPG) is what is typically called propane. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded that LPG is propane or butane. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that liquified natural gas is under considerable pressure. Number 071 MEAD TREADWELL introduced himself as Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), and made the point that he could only speak for the DEC and that HB 330 binds only the Department of Transportation. He added that air quality is very much a DEC mandate and the benefits of switching either to natural gas or LPG would be positive, although the change over is dictated by economics. Number 091 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that HB 330 doesn't allow for economics to dictate because it mandates the use of natural gas. Number 099 MR. LOGAN made the point that the 1992 Federal Energy Policy Act had been used by the sponsor's office as a guide. Number 111 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS proposed that in the amendment wherever the word natural gas appears the words "or LPG, where appropriate" should be added. Number 134 CHAIR FOSTER asked if there was any objection to the proposed wording. There was none. Number 138 JEFFERY OTTESEN identified himself as Chief of Environment for the Department of Transportation (DOT) and expressed the position that the DOT is not opposed to natural gas, but they are opposed to HB 330 in its present form because it requires specific percentages and doesn't let the DOT look at it from the standpoint of what makes sense. Number 163 CHAIR FOSTER commented that he, too, was concerned over both the mandate and the fiscal note. Number 176 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON proposed that the bill be held over since the prime sponsor wasn't even there. Number 178 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY added that he felt the committee should look at doing a committee substitute with a lower fiscal note. Number 180 MR. LOGAN commented that natural gas costs half as much as gasoline, and so the fiscal note would be lower as time went on. Number 190 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded that natural gas does not cost half as much as gasoline, and more needs to be looked at. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked the sponsor's aide if there was some reason for the percentages contained in the bill. Number 209 MR. LOGAN responded that the percentages were what the sponsor thought were good benchmarks. Number 242 CHAIR FOSTER appointed Representative Gary Davis to chair a subcommittee in order to iron out some of the concerns over HB 330. Number 250 MR. OTTESEN expressed the concern that in many areas in Alaska natural gas would not be an available fuel. Number 262 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked Mr. Ottesen if it is difficult to convert a vehicle from natural gas to LPG/LNG. Number 275 MR. OTTESEN responded that different equipment is needed for both kinds. Number 277 MR. TREADWELL discussed Alaska's need for a refueling infrastructure so that natural gas can be used, and added that in the Anchorage bowl area natural gas is about half the price of gasoline. Number 300 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked what the difference is between LPG and LNG. Number 304 MR. TREADWELL explained the differences, concluding that when you get down to burning them in your car, they're both alike. Number 399 CHAIR FOSTER said he hoped that Representative Davis could have the bill ready to be brought back into committee by next week. Number 402 CHAIR FOSTER called the committee's attention to two new pictures on the committee room wall -- the Port of Bellingham and Lyndon -- and said the pictures had been donated by those two organizations. Number 406 CHAIR FOSTER appointed Representative Hudson to the special Marine Highway subcommittee, which he added is formed every year. CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 5:34 p.m.#