SB 182-INTERFERENCE WITH EMERGENCY SERVICES  10:41:15 AM CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that the next order of business would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 182(JUD), "An Act establishing the crime of interference with emergency communications." 10:42:41 AM SENATOR DAVID WILSON, Alaska State Legislature, prime sponsor of CSSB 182(JUD), provided a brief overview of the bill. He stated that the bill established the offense of interference with emergency communications. The statute would only apply when a person repeatedly made 911 calls to report something they knew had already been reported, repeatedly called 911 when there was no emergency, harassed or threatened a 911 operator, or disrupted communications between 911 operators and first responders. 10:45:25 AM REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked why the bill lacked exemptions for individuals with dementia, developmental disabilities, or behavioral health issues. SENATOR WILSON argued that those exemptions already existed in statute. He posited that an individual would have to "knowingly" call and disrupt emergency communications to be prosecuted. 10:46:57 AM REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked whether adequate protections were in place for people with developmental disabilities and behavioral health issues. JASMIN MARTIN, Staff, Senator David Wilson, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Senator Wilson, prime sponsor of CSSB 182(JUD), deferred to Mr. Butcher. 10:48:04 AM JACOB BUTCHER, Communications Manager, Mat-Com Dispatch, shared his understanding that the legislation was not geared towards dementia or people with behavioral health issues. He believed that there were other tools to address Representative Story's concerns, such as CIP response, hospitalization, and the Crisis Now model. He reiterated that the bill was intended for those members of the community who choose to knowingly call 911 repeatedly or make false reports to simulate a SWAT response. 10:50:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked whether adequate protections were in place [for people with developmental disabilities and behavioral health issues]. 10:51:13 AM KACI SCHROEDER, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law (DOL), agreed with Mr. Butcher. If the Criminal Division was referred a case, she said, and there was some indication that the individual had diminished capacity, mental illness, or was suffering from a disease, his/her mental state would be analyzed to identify whether the individual was capable of acting knowingly. Additionally, she said she would consider whether the individual could appreciate the nature of his/her conduct and whether he/she was competent to stand trial. Once those hurdles were crossed, she explained that the next step was to consider whether prosecution was appropriate and in the best interest of justice. For those reasons, she opined that the appropriate protections were in place. CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked how the proposed legislation would apply to his grandmother who had Alzheimer's disease and tended to call 911 incessantly. He inquired about the barriers to prosecuting that hypothetical case. MS. SCHROEDER shared her understanding that Chair Kreiss- Tomkin's had stated that his grandmother was removed from reality when dialing 911. For that reason, Ms. Schroeder suspected that his grandmother did not understand the nature of her conduct, which would result in legal barriers to prosecution. Further, his grandmother would need to be deemed competent to stand trial by a medical professional. CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS pointed out that his grandmother's intent was to call 911, despite her altered state of mind. He asked Ms. Schroeder to speak on that. MS. SCHROEDER explained that if his grandmother knowingly called 911 and was therefore capable of formulating a mental state, the prosecution would consider whether she had the ability to appreciate the nature and quality of her conduct, which could be used as a defense by his grandmother's attorney. She emphasized that this scenario was hypothetical at best. She suspected that in most cases, his grandmother would not be prosecuted. CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS said he appreciated that; however, if the intent was to exclude individuals with behavioral health issues or a declining mental state, he argued that the law should not be criminalizing that behavior. MS. SCHROEDER noted that the defenses she had referenced could be found under AS 12.47.010 and AS 12.47.020. 10:57:04 AM CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS inquired about the sentencing ranges for the crime classification. MS. SCHROEDER stated that a class A misdemeanor had a sentencing range of 0-1 year while a class C felony had a sentencing range of 0-5 years. CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked whether any fines were associated with class A misdemeanor and class C felony charges. MS. SCHROEDER answered yes. She reported that there was a maximum fine of $25,000 for a class A misdemeanor and a maximum fine of $50,000 for a class C felony. CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS stated that he did not take felony charges lightly. 10:59:19 AM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether a larger fine would be assessed if an organization was found liable. MS. SCHROEDER answered yes. She reported that the maximum fine for an organization that was found liable for a class A misdemeanor was $500,000 and $2.5 million for a felony offense that resulted in death. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently against the law to knowingly submit a fraudulent report to law enforcement or an emergency dispatcher. MS. SCHROEDER acknowledged that there was an existing crime, referred to as "making a false report." REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently a crime to knowingly harass an emergency dispatcher. MS. SCHROEDER said not specifically; however, harassment in the second degree covered some of the conduct in question. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently a crime to threaten an emergency communications officer. MS. SCHROEDER said, "It depends on what it is." REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether there was an exemption for emergency communications officers. MS. SCHROEDER answered no. 11:01:38 AM REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN understood that the larger concern was that someone with mental illness or behavioral health issues shouldn't be charged at all. He opined that people in that situation shouldn't have to be entered into the criminal justice system at all, as it wouldn't make their situation any better. He asked how to "deal" with that. MS. SCHROEDER reiterated her belief that the type of case in question would not be pursued by prosecution. REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN recalled a scenario about an elderly woman who called 911 several times per month because she was lonely. He expressed his hope that she, or someone like her, would not be prosecuted despite the potential for interrupting the system. SENATOR WILSON believed that the proposed legislation would provide a tool for intervention to help mitigate future interruptions. REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked how frequently fraudulent calls were coming in with the intent to deceive emergency dispatchers. MR. BUTCHER said those calls were much less frequent. He emphasized that the bill was not intended for elderly people or people suffering from an illness. He assured Representative Claman that emergency dispatchers and law enforcement would "take care" with those callers. He reiterated that the bill was intended for people who were placing calls with the purpose of disruption because they were upset with law enforcement or first responders. REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked how the proposed crime differed from harassment at the misdemeanor level. MR. BUTCHER explained that the dispatcher would be able to tell the caller that if he/she continued to call, the audio would be passed to a law enforcement officer. From there, the law enforcement officer would make contact with the individual to warn him/her that continued calls would result in criminal charges. REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked whether the audio recording would be relied upon to file the charges, as opposed to the dispatcher needing to make a personal declaration. MR. BUTCHER said the recordings would be an additional tool if an arrest was made. 11:14:42 AM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN expressed his concern that the bill could discourage people from calling 911 during a true emergency. He recommended strengthening the harassment laws instead of criminalizing new behavior. 11:17:25 AM CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened public testimony. 11:17:46 AM HILLARY PALMER stated her support for SB 182, as someone who had relied on emergency medical services to save her type I diabetic husband from kidney failure before his life saving transplant surgery. She pointed out that currently, to file a harassment charge, a dispatcher must fill out a complaint form that includes personal information, thus providing an opportunity for personal attacks and stalking. She urged the committee to consider the problem from the perspective of someone undergoing a severe medical emergency and to pass the proposed legislation. 11:21:03 AM MARK PEARSON, President, Alaska Peace Officers Association, urged committee members to support the bill. He argued that current statutes did not directly address the problem. He encouraged passage of the bill to eliminate the existing statutory loophole. 11:22:46 AM CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS closed public testimony on CSSB 182(JUD). He announced that the bill was held over. 11:23:13 AM The committee took a brief at-ease.