HB 53-CANDIDATES INELIGIBLE FOR BDS/COMMISSIONS  9:10:30 AM CHAIR LYNN announced that the last order of business was HOUSE BILL NO. 53, "An Act relating to eligibility for membership on state boards, commissions, and authorities." 9:10:44 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for HB 53, Version 26-LS0296\R, Bullard, 2/10/10, as work draft. CHAIR LYNN objected for discussion purposes. 9:11:13 AM REPRESENTATIVE MIKE DOOGAN, Alaska State Legislature, as sponsor of HB 53, reviewed that the proposed legislation would require members of boards and commissions to resign their positions when applying for political office. He said there are people who serve on boards and commissions who are in a position to materially affect the lives of citizens by advancing the interests of candidates, financially and otherwise. For example, he said there is a man serving on the Human Rights Commission who has filed for the Alaska State Legislature. He stated, "He ..., in fact, would be able to materially affect something that somebody wants and be in a position to ask that same person for ... campaign money. And because of that, I think that one or the other of those things has to go." 9:15:20 AM CHAIR LYNN asked if it would be possible to create a rule that a candidate who is serving on a board or commission may not accept a contribution from anyone on that board or commission. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said that would be a difficult law to draft. CHAIR LYNN noted that legislators are not allowed to accept contributions during a legislative session. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said members of boards and commissions are appointed for a certain number of years, and their schedule follows that of the board or commission. He said he could not figure out a way "to go at it in that direction, to ... limit your ability to raise funds if you're running for office, outside of the limitations we already have." 9:17:05 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for confirmation that the proposed legislation pertains only to legislative or executive offices. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN confirmed that is correct. CHAIR LYNN specified that would mean the offices of legislator, governor, and lieutenant governor. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON mentioned an "advisory commission," which is set up through the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G). He asked, "How far down does this go when you say boards or commissions?" 9:18:22 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN related that there are approximately 120 boards and commissions. He said, "They don't go down to the level that you're talking about." He indicated that the bill pertains to boards and commissions that are set up in statute to be able to take "some sort of action." He offered his understanding that that does not include advisory boards, for example. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted that the committee has a list of 98 boards with influence over constituent groups [included in the committee packet]. He said he wants the legislation to be clear whether or not it includes advisory boards that are appointed or have their own elections, or community councils, for example. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN responded that he is "not trying to get down to that level at all." 9:20:39 AM CHAIR LYNN asked if a clear line has been drawn. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN characterized the bill as "a rough attempt to limit the members of boards and commissions that in most cases have got some ability to effect what the state does for ... [and] to citizens." 9:21:20 AM CHAIR LYNN expressed concern that under HB 53, a person who gives up his/her seat on a board or commission in order to run for political office but does not get elected, will end up without his/her seat on the board or commission. He said it is difficult to find people to serve on boards and commissions. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN responded that what Chair Lynn said is true; however, he pointed out that the person would be allowed to serve on that board or commission after a waiting period of one year. CHAIR LYNN remarked that getting back on a board or commission requires an opening. He asked the reason for the proposed year waiting period. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN explained that without the year waiting period, the person running for office could still make promises to do things on the board or commission for the person supporting his/her campaign. 9:24:09 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN, in response to Representative Gatto, confirmed that currently an elected official is allowed to serve on a board. He pointed out that some boards require that a legislator fill a seat. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO related that he serves on the Alaska Commission on Post Secondary Education, although he is not sure he fills a seat because of being a legislator. He asked if there could be a grandfather clause, by which a legislator already serving on a board could remain on that board while running for office. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN offered his belief that there would be no such grandfather clause opportunity under HB 53. In response to a follow-up question, he stated that there is an exception under HB 53 for the positions legislators have on boards or commissions "by virtue of the fact that they are legislators." 9:27:33 AM PRIYA KEANE, Staff, Representative Mike Doogan, Alaska State Legislature, answered questions on behalf of Representative Doogan, sponsor of HB 53. In response to Representative Gatto, she directed attention to a legal memorandum from the bill drafter, dated February 10, 2010. In the memorandum, Mr. Bullard maintains that there is a separation of powers issue in having legislators serve as public members on state boards, commissions, or authorities - it is not legal. However, she said certain boards, commissions, or authorities have positions for sitting legislators. Those legislative positions are exempt under HB 53. The purpose of Version R was to clarify that exemption. 9:29:44 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to the last page of the aforementioned list [included in the committee packet] of 98 boards with influence over constituent groups, and read the some of the names on it, including: the National Park and Park Monument Subsistence Resource Commissions, the Alaska Veterans Advisory Council, the Board of Veterinary Examiners, the Water and Wastewater Works Advisory Board, the Wood-Tikchik State Park Management Council, and the Yukon River Panel Advisory Committee. He said many of those entities are run by involved citizens. Especially in rural Alaska, he said, it is difficult to fill these positions with people who are active and want to be involved in their community. He surmised that it is an unintended consequence that the bill would prevent people who have been active and responsible in their communities from running for office without giving up their position for an entire year in the event they are not elected. 9:31:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN responded that that is not an unintended consequence. He opined that people have to make choices in life, and under HB 53, a person would have to decide whether to run for office or stay on a board or commission. He said it is the same choice that a public employee would have to make if he/she ran for office. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to the title of the original bill version, which includes state boards, commissions, and authorities. He then noted that the title in Version R includes only state boards or commissions; however, on page 2 lines 14 and 17, of Version R, authorities is included. 9:33:14 AM MS. KEANE responded that she is not clear why the bill drafter chose [to include "authorities" on lines 14 and 17]. 9:33:29 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted that [on page 2, lines 15 and 18, of Version R], federal office is included. He questioned, "I guess we're controlling the board, so if you run, we can remove you from the board, so, why couldn't we do the same thing with ... municipal elections?" REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN replied, "I'm not sure that we couldn't." He indicated that municipalities can decide whether or not to address the issue. CHAIR LYNN questioned whether "any of us on committee here [could] run for Congress and still keep our job here." REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN responded no. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON observed that there is a legislator currently in office who is running for a federal election. CHAIR LYNN noted that legislator is not filing for reelection to the [legislature]. 9:35:26 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said his point is that while cities have control of their elections, the legislature has control of their boards and commissions; therefore, requiring a person to resign from a state board in order to run for a city office would be problematic for a municipality. In response to Representative Doogan, he said, "I think there's a difference between making it a requirement that you not be on a board and saying you're getting kicked off a board if you do." He indicated that one may lead to discrimination issues. He concluded, "I think it has to come from us, it can't come from them." 9:38:03 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN admitted Representative Johnson might be right. 9:38:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested the bill could pertain to city, state, and federal elections. 9:39:28 AM HOLLY HILL, Executive Director, Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC), noted that the definition of state boards or commissions, as well as a list of boards which report public financial disclosures, is found in AS 39.50.200(b). 9:40:10 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to language on page 1, line 5, of Version R, which read: "if the person sought nomination or became a candidate". He offered his understanding that until a person files a letter of intent [to run for office] he/she cannot raise funds. MS. HILL responded that is correct. She offered her understanding regarding nomination, that until an individual is appointed, he/she does not file forms with APOC. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON remarked that any intent the bill sponsor may have of including language to ensure that people do not use their influence on a board or commission to leverage contributions would be redundant, because currently if someone seeks nomination and has not filed a letter of intent, he/she is prohibited from soliciting or raising money in pursuit of that office. 9:43:20 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON described a situation in which three people from a political party are nominated for a political office. He asked if all three nominated would be ineligible to serve on a board, even though only one of them could possibly get elected. 9:44:07 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON commented that the bill would apply to anyone who put his/her name forward to the selection process. He stated, "So, it could be a dozen people in each community that wanted to put their name forward for that seat because they're seeking the nomination, as I read seeking the nomination, and yet they've had no ability to file an intent or to raise campaign funds." 9:44:43 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN directed attention to page 2, line 1, which read as follows: (2) has filed a nominating petition under AS 15.25.140 - 15.25.200, AS 15.30.026, AS 15.40.180, 15.40.190, 15.40.270 - 15.40.290, or 15.40.430 - 15.40.450 to become a candidate for elective state or federal executive or legislative office; REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said his understanding of that language is that a person has filed for office. In response to Representative Johnson, he stated his belief that appointments are not covered in the aforementioned statutes. 9:45:45 AM REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN stated, "That was basically the same thing I was going to say, ... that unless they have filed a declaration as a candidate then they wouldn't be covered, so, I think it's already covered." 9:46:06 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG opined that HB 53 is a confusing bill. He described proposed legislation as possible solutions to perceived problems; however, he said he is not certain what problem is being addressed by HB 53. 9:46:49 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said one of the responsibilities of the legislature is to safeguard not only the integrity of the electoral process, but also the citizens' faith in it. He said the proposed legislation is his attempt to address that issue. In response to a follow-up question, he said the point is to "do what you can to make sure that people don't think that somebody gets a leg up." CHAIR LYNN said the issue relates to not only reality, but perception. 9:48:53 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said, "I don't know that anybody is going to get a ... leg up because they're on the board of hairdressers or something like that. In fact, I don't know very many of these boards where you'd really get a leg up." He said his second concern is that there are many ways a person can get a leg up that don't relate to "this." He said he is not certain that the problem has been properly identified. He questioned whether this issue is something that can be legislated. He said he had thought that the purpose of the bill was to prevent bribery, but now he is "more confused than ever." REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN responded that he is having trouble understanding the cause of the confusion. He stated, "Either you think that there are opportunities that other people don't have, that go along with being a member of a board or commission, in electoral terms, or you don't." CHAIR LYNN remarked that most people running for office have some special interest group either supporting or opposing them. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN concurred, but added, "These are not advantages that you get from being put in a position basically that you can get that through the State of Alaska - this is a different deal." 9:53:00 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN, in response to Representative Gatto, said the year waiting period begins from the date of the election. 9:54:51 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said a person who, for example, has served on the Board of Fisheries and then gets elected to be a legislator would have "huge support" from the board, which is why HB 53 makes sense. 9:56:17 AM CHAIR LYNN, after ascertaining that there was no one else who wished to testify, closed public testimony. 9:56:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN remarked that he has no expectations that HB 53 will pass into law, and expressed willingness to start over with it in the next legislative session. 9:58:05 AM CHAIR LYNN removed his objection to the motion to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for HB 53, Version 26-LS0296\R, Bullard, 2/10/10, as work draft. 9:58:18 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON reminded the committee that there is no reference to "authorities" in the title of Version R, while there is mention of "authorities" within the body of Version R. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG opined that "authorities" should be added to the title of Version R. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested that the bill be held. 9:58:56 AM CHAIR LYNN asked the bill sponsor to come back with a committee substitute as soon as possible. REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN expressed compliance with the idea of including "authorities" in the title of Version R, and said he would have a committee substitute made. [HB 53 was held over. The motion to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for HB 53, Version 26-LS0296\R, Bullard, 2/10/10, as work draft, was left pending.]