HJR 38-CONST. AM: INCREASE NUMBER OF LEGISLATORS  [Not on the recording, but reconstructed from the committee secretary's log notes, was the following:] CHAIR LYNN announced that the next order of business was HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38, Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to and increasing the number of members of the house of representatives to forty- eight and the number of members of the senate to twenty-four. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON reviewed the resolution. She noted that Representative Seaton had an amendment prepared to which she does not object. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 26- LS1323\A.1, Cook, 2/15/10, which read as follows: Page 1, line 2: Delete "forty-eight" Insert "forty-four" Page 1, line 3: Delete "twenty-four" Insert "twenty-two" Page 1, lines 7 - 8: Delete "twenty-four" Insert "twenty-two" Page 1, line 8: Delete "forty-eight" Insert "forty-four" Page 1, line 12: Delete "forty-eight" Insert "forty-four" Page 1, line 13: Delete "twenty-four" Insert "twenty-two" Page 2, line 7: Delete "forty-eight" Insert "forty-four" REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for discussion purposes. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON spoke to Amendment 1. 8:31:36 AM [Recording begins again here.] REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted that the original fiscal note, dated 1/29/10, shows a 2016 total of $4,470,000, while the total for 2016 shown in the new fiscal note, dated 2/16/10, is $2,342,000 - nearly half the amount of the original fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG removed his objection to Amendment 1. There being no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. 8:32:26 AM REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON explained that through the adoption of Amendment 1, the proposed bill now calls for fewer legislators, which would result in a reduction in the total of the fiscal note, because it would not be necessary to reconstruct legislative chambers or hire as many staff. She said not only would the overall cost of running the legislature be lower, but the districts would remain about the same size as they currently are. In response to Representative Gatto, she clarified that she meant square miles of each district would remain about the same. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he does not know how that could be possible. 8:34:11 AM CHAIR LYNN closed public testimony. 8:34:39 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to information in the committee packet, regarding population trends for election districts in 2010, and noted that the average population per election district, from 2000 U.S. Census data, was 15,673. Under the proposed bill, as amended, the number of people each House district would represent would average 15,735, or approximately 50 more people in each election district. He said some election districts will change in size, and new election districts will be added to areas where the population has expanded - predominately the Matanuska/Susitna area. He said it is difficult to predict the changes that will be forthcoming. He explained the reason he offered Amendment 1 was that it would be a way to keep the election districts as close as possible to their current populations. 8:37:07 AM REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said the areas losing population would remain about the same as they are currently, while areas growing in population would actually gain another Representative. In response to a question from Representative Gatto, she said it is true that areas gaining population would get additional representation no matter what the legislature decides regarding the proposed legislation. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked then what the impetus for HJR 38 was. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said the push for this legislation is an attempt to be fair to all constituents and legislators, and to make it possible for all the citizens of the state to make contact with their legislators. 8:40:06 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO questioned why Representative Wilson is not proposing a greater number of legislators if she is striving for equity. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON responded that she is trying to be reasonable. 8:40:44 AM REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN offered his understanding that when the committee discussed HJR 38 at a previous hearing, it was brought up that one of the reasons for the proposed legislation was to avoid the possibility of the State of Alaska finding itself in violation of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, [as it relates to the protection of large minority concentrations]. 8:41:17 AM REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON cited language in the Constitution of the State of Alaska, Article 6, Section 6, regarding legislative apportionment, which read as follows: Each house district shall be formed of contiguous and compact territory containing as nearly as practicable a relatively integrated socio-economic area. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON stated that as districts get bigger, the state is no longer keeping them within the bounds of Article 6, Section 6. She said if the legislature does not pass HJR 38, the courts may take over, which she said they already have done "in all but one of the state's reapportionments." 8:42:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if any studies have been done that show "the difficulties" addressed by the bill sponsor, as well as model solutions from other states. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON responded, "We don't have any studies, but there has been much debate on it, and the courts have already complained about it in the past." 8:45:19 AM KARLA SCHOFIELD, Deputy Director, Accounting, Legislative Administrative Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, in response to Representative Gruenberg, said the two-page fiscal note is as complete as it can be; it's ultimate accuracy would depend on how the redistricting lines were drawn. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked where additional legislators would be housed if HJR 38 is enacted. MS. SCHOFIELD responded that that would depend upon the House and Senate Rules committees and Legislative Council. Notwithstanding that, she suggested the following options: adding more desks to the chambers, reconfiguring the Thomas B. Stewart Legislative Office Building, decreasing the size of existing legislative offices, and asking the governor to consider moving from the capitol to another location. The latter would entail an expense for the executive branch in supplying another building. In response to a follow-up question, she said if the offices were to fit within the capitol, it would be necessary to hire architectural services. She said Accounting tried to leave surplus money in the figuring of the fiscal note "so that ... any option that came up we could at least move on." In response to further questions, she stated, "... If we really did put an addition on the capitol or did something like that, it would be a capital appropriation. I think the money that's in there would be sufficient to at least make a good start on it, ... it would just depend on what option legislators chose." 8:48:30 AM MS. SCHOFIELD, in response to Representative Gatto, said she has worked for the Alaska State Legislature since 1982. In response to a follow-up question, she said she cannot recollect having ever heard a legislator complain that he/she has an office that is too large. In response to a question from Representative Gatto as to whether she has heard complaints from legislators that their offices are too small, she stated, "Actually, most legislators seem to be very accommodating, understanding how the capitol building is constructed." CHAIR LYNN remarked that he would like to have an intern, but there is no room in his office for one. 8:49:17 AM MS. SCHOFIELD, in response to a question from Representative Petersen, said currently some staff has assigned parking, and those parking assignments would have to be relinquished in order to provide enough parking for additional legislators. In response to a question from Representative Gatto, Ms. Schofield said other needs for consideration, for example, a child care facility, would be the purview of the Senate and House Rules Committees and Legislative Council. 8:51:13 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to report HJR 38, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. [The two out of three fiscal notes in the committee packet that would accompany the proposed resolution are dated 2/9/10 and 2/16/10.] 8:51:47 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO objected. 8:51:51 AM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Wilson, Gruenberg, Petersen, Seaton, and Lynn voted in favor of reporting HJR 38, as amended, out of committee. Representative Gatto voted against it. Therefore, CSHJR 38(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee by a vote of 5-1.