HB 170-PERS PEACE OFFICER STATUS: F&G EMPLOYEES CHAIR COGHILL continued with the next order of business, HOUSE BILL NO. 170, "An Act relating to granting certain employees of the Department of Fish and Game status as peace officers under the public employees' retirement system." Number 2194 EDDIE GRASSER, Staff to Representative Masek, Alaska State Legislature, explained that Representative Masek introduced this legislation due to the concerns surrounding the attrition rate being experienced in the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G). Mr. Grasser said HB 170 was introduced in order to create incentives to recruit new employees that stay with the department. Mr. Grasser pointed out that Alaska's wealth comes from its resources. The revenues derived from fish and game are significant. Therefore, Mr. Grasser felt it would be a travesty to not have qualified professionals managing Alaska's wildlife. MR. GRASSER addressed the concern raised regarding the status of peace officers, which is addressed in a proposed committee substitute (CS) that the sponsor prepared for the committee. The CS takes ADF&G employees out of peace officer status and creates a new position, Professional Fish & Game employees. REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS inquired as to how this would impact part-time employees or seasonal employees. MR. GRASSER pointed out that the definition section includes permanent, seasonal employees. Therefore, a part-time employee that isn't permanent would not be included in the retirement system while permanent seasonal employees would be included in the retirement system. Number 2387 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked, "What does that mean in terms of actual retirement for someone ...? Does that prolong it to 40 years or can they still retire after 20 years as a six-month employee?" MR. GRASSER related his belief that once an employee is vested as a state employee and that employee reaches a certain timeframe, then that employee can retire. However, that employee's retirement benefits may not be that much. Number 2424 GUY BELL, Director, Health Benefits Section, Division of Retirement & Benefits, Department of Administration, explained that if a seasonal employee worked five months as a seasonal employee, then that employee would have five months of service that year. Therefore, it would take longer for a [seasonal] employee to accumulate 20 or 30 years. CHAIR COGHILL asked if an employee can buy more [retirement] or is it limited to the employees employment. MR. BELL explained that the bill allows a person to buy past service [accrued] as peace officer service. CHAIR COGHILL asked if a seasonal employee would be able [to buy their past accrued service]. MR. BELL replied yes and clarified that the same provisions apply to seasonal and full-time employees. In further response to Chair Coghill, Mr. Bell confirmed that there is a cost to the employee to buy back [past accrued service]. He specified that the cost is the difference between what the employee contributed and would have contributed as a peace officer plus some interest, which is less than the full actuarial cost. Number 2549 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES addressed the "catch-up amount." She posed a situation in which an employee had been working for five years and paying into a 30-year plan. With the change to a 20-year plan, does the bill include an option to "do that or not do that." Furthermore, when an employee buys in to the 20-year plan, does that employee have to pay the state's portion as well as their own. MR. BELL explained that as the bill is drafted, the person who wants to purchase service as peace officer time is required to pay the difference between what the employee would pay as a peace officer versus a non peace officer, which is a difference of three-quarters of a percent per year plus interest. That amount is less than the full actuarial cost. Also, there is an employer contribution that has gone into the system over the years that hasn't been addressed. REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS noted his agreement that 20-year retirement is a good idea for ADF&G because people are being lost to the federal government. Representative Stevens asked whether Mr. Bell saw this proposed change as having a negative impact on the health of the Public Employees' Retirement System (PERS) and the Teachers' Retirement System (TRS). MR. BELL pointed out that, in broad terms, there are a number of groups that are interested in changing from a 30-year retirement to a 20-year retirement as is evident in past legislation to make this change for police dispatchers and employees of correctional institutions. In those cases, the legislature required those employees to pay the entire cost to "20 [years] and out." Although he wasn't sure of the number of employees interested in "20 [years] and out," he remarked that even a couple thousand employees would amount to a substantial amount that would impact employer rates. Mr. Bell pointed out that it is about a 2.5 percent differential between a peace officer and a non peace officer. CHAIR COGHILL remarked that this [legislation] is not the only one of its kind. With that, Chair Coghill turned to those signed up to testify. Number 2947 DAVID LOVE, Southeast Region Shrimp Research Biologist, Commercial Fisheries Division, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. He began by noting his support of HB 170. Mr. Love has worked in fisheries for 15 years and took his current position in June of 2000. When he took his current position he took a pay cut from his previous positions. Furthermore, if he had taken a similar position with the federal government, Mr. Love would be receiving [Cost of Living Allowance] COLA in addition to his regular pay. In response to why he took such a position, Mr. Love said, "I see it as a stimulating position. I work with people like myself who believe they have a responsibility to future generations and the people of Alaska to wisely use the resources we all depend [on] and benefit from." Although Mr. Love likes his position, he pointed out that over the course of his career he has been exposed to a variety of dangerous situations in various locations. He remarked that some days he asks himself whether the risks of his job are worth the rewards. Therefore, some recognition of the risks he has taken while in the service of the state in the form of the 20-year retirement plan would help to allay his occasional cynicism and maintain his enthusiasm during the long hours he often works. Mr. Love said that benefits as described in HB 170 would be a step in the right direction to convince new hires like himself to stay employed with the State of Alaska. MR. LOVE informed the committee that he has discovered that some of his coworkers were hired as biologists with the state under a 20-year retirement plan similar to that proposed in HB 170. Therefore, he felt that such disparity is unfair and could be rectified with HB 170. TAPE 01-42, SIDE B MR. LOVE concluded by encouraging the supporters of HB 170 to make it a reality. Number 2951 MATT EVENSON, Fisheries Research Biologist, Fairbanks Sport Fish Division, testified via teleconference. Mr. Evenson spoke in support of HB 170. He acknowledged that as an employee working under the 30-year retirement plan, he has much to gain with the passage of HB 170. However, he alluded to the notion that HB 170 would benefit more than just a few state employees. Mr. Evenson reviewed his positive experience with his job with ADF&G. As a college intern, he couldn't think of anything better than "flying around the countryside and bobbing down Alaska's wild and scenic rivers for weeks on end." However, as Mr. Evenson began to raise a family, being gone for weeks at a time became more stressful on his family. Mr. Evenson said, "Having done this work for 15 years now, it's hard to imagine keeping up this pace and enthusiasm knowing retirement is a minimum of 15 years away. Nor is it easy to imagine applying for a more demanding and stressful higher level positions until I feel like I'm much closer to retirement." Under the current 30-year retirement system, Mr. Evenson believes that vested professionals with the state system will leave the system for less stressful and higher paying consulting positions with the federal government or private businesses. Such a scenario would be bad for the state as a whole. Therefore, Mr. Evenson believes that reinstating the 20-year retirement system would ensure that the managers of Alaska's fish and wildlife resources will remain "the dedicated and passionate and enthusiastic professionals that I have come to know for the past 15 years." Number 2831 JOHN HILSINGER testified via teleconference. Mr. Hilsinger informed the committee that he retired in 1988 under the 20-year retirement system. He recalled that those hired after 1983 fall under the 30-year retirement. Mr. Hilsinger said that he supports HB 170 because these jobs are extremely stressful and dangerous. Since statehood, there have been 24 [ADF&G staff] fatalities. Furthermore, the pay for these positions have not kept pace with inflation or with what the federal government is paying for comparable federal positions. Mr. Hilsinger related his belief that very few of those working under the 30-year retirement will actually work 30 years. MR. HILSINGER pointed out that ADF&G hires a large number of seasonal employees who spend five to ten years with the department before they are able to obtain a full-time permanent position. Such seasonal employees may actually end up working 35-40 years to receive 30 years of service. Mr. Hilsinger said that many people are leaving the department after ten years of service, which troubled him. Therefore, he felt that this 20- year retirement system would be a powerful incentive to help retain employees. He felt that the cost to the employee as laid out in HB 170 is fair. MR. HILSINGER turned the peace officer retirement. He related his belief that the ADF&G 20-year retirement could stand on its own merit and doesn't necessarily have to be tied to the peace officer retirement. Therefore, Mr. Hilsinger said that he could support the CS as well [as HB 170]. However, he expressed the need to take care in determining which positions are to be included in the 20-year retirement. He suggested including those positions that require a degree in biological sciences as well as the Fish & Wildlife Tech and boat officer positions. Number 2609 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS inquired as to which positions Mr. Hilsinger would exclude from the 20-year retirement. MR. HILSINGER specified that he would exclude all the administrative positions, the resource specialists, and the research analysts. Those are the primary positions that don't require a degree in biology. Mr. Hilsinger expressed the need to use language such that it would allow a person who is a biologist and who takes a promotion to a position that isn't included in the 20-year retirement system the ability to retain that 20-year retirement. Number 2544 JEFF BARNHART, Fisheries Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. He noted that he, as have others, has lost a number of friends while working for ADF&G and serving the people of the state. Personally, he has had a number of close calls himself. "The dangers are very real. We face them every day and people should be compensated in the form of a 20-year retirement," he said. Furthermore, there are the economic realities that are illustrated in the American Fisheries Society reports of the comparisons of fisheries biologists' salaries nationwide since 1977. A fisheries biologist's salary in Alaska has significantly declined in comparison to the national average. The decline in salaries and benefits since 1977 coupled with the change from a 20-year retirement to a 30-year retirement has resulted in the department's current situation: a 20 percent vacancy rate. Biologists with the department are leaving state service for various other options. Therefore, the department isn't retaining its current biologists nor is it attracting new and qualified people. MR. BARNHART remarked that Alaska's fish and wildlife resources is Alaska's primary renewable resource and thus the economic and social benefits of Alaska's fish and wildlife resources touch the lives of almost every Alaskan. He reviewed the range of economic and social benefits created by these resources. He said, "It's so important to the lives of all Alaskans that we have good populations of wild resources for now and for the future. We need to keep the qualified biologists we currently have and attract new qualified biologists that would make good decisions based on sound research. And 20-year retirement would be a good step toward achieving that goal." Therefore, Mr. Barnhart encouraged the committee to support the bill. Number 2355 GINO DELFRATE, Wildlife Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. Mr. Delfrate encouraged the committee to pass HB 170. He informed the committee that he was the first person hired under the 30-year retirement plan. He also informed the committee that when he was first hired as a wildlife biologist he was required to obtain a peace officer badge. Mr. Delfrate said that as time passed he realized that his job was no different than the person he replaced who had 20- year retirement. In fact, the person that he replaced was killed in an airplane accident while doing mountain goat surveys. Mr. Delfrate expressed the need to have 20-year retirement because there is no difference in the work, and furthermore it would make a difference in his outlook. Number 2244 TIM VIAVANT, Fisheries Biologist, Fairbanks Division of Sport Fishing, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. Mr. Viavant urged the committee to support HB 170. Mr. Viavant echoed earlier comments regarding the fact that the department is facing and will continue to face real problems with recruitment and retention of qualified quality employees. In recent years the pool of available candidates has been small and often recruitment periods have to be extended or out of state recruitment has occurred. He feels that the recruitment pool is smaller because of the disparity in pay between the federal government and private sector and the state government. Furthermore, this work, although rewarding, is very stressful and occasionally dangerous. Although safety is a big concern for Mr. Viavant, he said that the overall stress level of being in a position that has contention over resource allocation [is also a big concern]. Other stressors with the job are the large amounts of time spent away from home as well as working large amounts of uncompensated overtime. In conclusion, Mr. Viavant said that a 20-year retirement plan would make these positions more attractive to prospective applicants and would increase the likelihood that current employees would stay to meet the 20-year retirement. Number 2046 DON YOUNG, Wildlife Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. He began by noting his support of HB 170. He informed the committee that he has worked for ADF&G since 1997. Prior to that he worked for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service in Fairbanks for about eight years. Under the federal system, he wasn't deputized and fell under a 30-year retirement system. Prior to his work with [the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service] he worked with the Idaho Department of Fish & Game as a seasonal technician from 1978-1989. Under the Idaho system he was deputized and under a 20-year retirement system. MR. YOUNG said that the primary issue for him is the hazardous risk with his position. Mr. Young informed the committee that since coming to Alaska he has lost four colleagues to plane crashes. He pointed out that he spends hundreds of hours each year doing low-level, less than 500 feet, fixed-wing surveys. Often these surveys are conducted in poor weather conditions. Furthermore, in his position he spends about a week net-gunning caribou, which is considered to be one of the most dangerous capture activities. He discussed the potential problems with the various capture activities and noted that the department is reviewing the aircraft safety policy due to the number of close calls. Mr. Young turned to the enforcement aspect of the position and charged that staff is poorly trained in enforcement. At the beginning of his service with the department, he received one week of training and at this time there have been no refresher courses. MR. YOUNG echoed earlier comments regarding the fact that people doing the same job, side-by-side, fall under different retirement plans, which he indicated is [unfair]. From his experience serving on the hiring committee, he concluded that the hiring pool is relatively poor. Therefore, he felt that the 20-year retirement would improve that situation. In closing he returned to the fact that he left the federal system to be employed with the state, which resulted in a 30 percent pay cut, although the job was the same. He clarified that he only went to the state system once his situation was such that he couldn't continue with the federal system. Number 1725 BOB MURPHY, Management Biologist, Division of Commercial Fisheries, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. Mr. Murphy noted his strong support of HB 170. He echoed earlier testimony regarding the dangers of ADF&G staff when in the field. Although the state has developed an excellent system of local management and a thorough regulatory process, management of fish and wildlife is one of the most contentious issues in the state and places a high level of responsibility and stress on ADF&G staff. Therefore, it becomes more difficult to fill vacant positions and entice employees to take promotions to more stressful positions. He pointed out that many younger employees openly state that they will not stay to reach their 30-year retirement. Mr. Murphy concluded by saying, "This bill is the single-most critical step in the right direction to providing a strong incentive for recruiting and retaining well-qualified and talented individuals to work for the Alaska Department of Fish & Game." NICHOLAS SAGALKIN testified via teleconference. Mr. Sagalkin said he strongly supported HB 170. In his five years with ADF&G he has had a number of close calls during which he felt his life was in jeopardy. He reviewed his firsthand experiences with the dangers of the job. Mr. Sagalkin also addressed the difficult time the department has had with recruiting people in biologist positions. For example, the management biologist position for Area M, one of the most controversial fisheries in the state, will be unfilled going into the beginning of the commercial fishing season. Also the research biologist position for the Bering Sea, one of the largest resources in Alaska, has been unfilled for several months now. REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS reiterated his earlier question regarding who should be included in and excluded from the 20-year retirement plan. MR. MURPHY related his belief that the proposed CS includes language that includes all biologists with the state, which are the field generals for ADF&G. CHAIR COGHILL pointed out that some [ADF&G biologists] are deputized by the Commissioner of the Department of Public Safety and thus there is some overlap. Number 1412 ROBERT HUNTER, Wildlife Technician, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference in support of HB 170. In the 12 years he has worked with ADF&G he has had a number of close calls, including three serious aircraft incidents. Mr. Hunter informed the committee that Alaska has the highest death rate of biologists and technicians in North America. Furthermore, [ADF&G's] benefits are not keeping pace with competing employers. There are fewer applicants than one would expect for many positions, which has often led the department to delay or postpone a recruiting process due to an inadequate number of applicants to ensure that the best person for the position was being hired. At one time it was common to attract applicants from federal agencies, but that is no longer the case. Mr. Hunter said, "Our programs are already suffering from vacancies that take too long to fill." Therefore, employees often have to cover those vacant positions in addition to their current position, which is inefficient. MR. HUNTER echoed earlier comments regarding the disparity within the office, that is colleagues doing the same job while falling under different retirement systems. He pointed out that a ten year difference in retirement can be a long time when one thinks in context of the risks to which the employee is being exposed. Mr. Hunter said, "Regaining the 20-year retirement option may help reduce the gap between the employers' benefit packages and allow us to compete, again, for the expertise we need working for the state." Therefore, he hoped that the committee will support HB 170 in order to restore the [20-year] benefit option to the department's biologists and technicians. Number 1181 MIKE DOXEY, Sport Fish Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. He mentioned the death of two of his college mates while working for ADF&G. He also mentioned his dangerous experiences as an ADF&G employee. However, he noted that his experiences are not unique among ADF&G employees. Mr. Doxey felt it appropriate that all ADF&G biologists be covered by the 20-year retirement plan as he is. Number 1095 HARRY REYNOLDS, 28-year employee, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. He noted that most of his employment with ADF&G has been as a grizzly bear research biologist. Mr. Reynolds reiterated earlier testimony regarding the dangerous nature of his job and noted that he has been in three helicopter crashes, one airplane crashe, five helicopter incidents, and three fixed-wing incidents. Although he has survived, four of his friends have not. Employees of ADF&G have a higher rate of violent death on the job than any other department, including the state troopers, he believed. He related his belief that the current retirement system is unfair. MR. REYNOLDS turned to the earlier suggestion of excluding employees without a biology degree from the 20-year retirement system. He pointed out that in the Fairbanks division, biometricians, computer program analysts, and network specialists consistently do field work alongside biologists. Therefore, he felt that the original language that said a qualified employee was someone certified by the commissioner "could address this concern." Number 0907 JESSE VANDERZANDEN, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), testified via teleconference. Mr. Vanderzanden informed the committee that the AOC board hasn't had a formal opportunity to support HB 170. However, he has spoken with several board members who wanted him to forward their support. Mr. Vanderzanden said that [AOC] agrees with many of the comments mentioned regarding hazardous duty and fairness within the department. MR. VANDERZANDEN said: To the extent possible the AOC has tried to base their policies on sound science. And as you know, sound science is founded upon the replication and the constant measuring and monitoring of the environment and the fish and wildlife resources that interact in that environment. The retainment of good biologists at ADF&G enhances this replication and in turn enhances the credibility of the department. And in turn enhances Alaska's credibility, with respect to the intensive and scientific management of fish and game. To us, it's absolutely critical to have this ... replication, to have this continuity, to have this monitoring. It's no secret that we're under the microscope of the East Coast and in many respects, the nation. And to the extent that we can enhance and maintain our scientific credibility, it allows the state to not only retain their state management authority but also to continue implementing often unique and ... sometimes controversial programs that separate Alaska from the rest of the nation. We have a different set of circumstances up here and to the extent that we can maintain and enhance our scientific credibility, it's good for the department, ... Alaska, and ... our fish and wildlife. Number 0720 DOREEN PARKER-McNEILL, Wildlife Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, testified via teleconference. She informed the committee that a significant amount of her job entails low-level wildlife survey flights and she has worked in remote areas. Ms. Parker-McNeill also informed the committee that for eight years she worked for the U.S. Forest Service. When she switched from federal to state employment, she noticed that her voice was actually heard in the state's bureaucratic system. However, when she worked for the state she no longer received the 25 percent tax free COLA. She reviewed the inherent dangers with her job. Ms. Parker-McNeill said that she hoped that the committee would support HB 170 because she believes that a 20- year retirement plan would keep ADF&G employees working for the state. Number 0468 KEVIN BROOKS, Director, Division of Administrative Services, Alaska Department of Fish & Game, said that the department feels that it is worthy to review this type of measure. He confirmed the testimony that the department has been grappling with pay and retention issues for the past few years. Currently, there is a salary survey being conducted in order to document the aforementioned poor candidate pools and other problems. He agreed that the aforementioned dangers to ADF&G employees are real. MR. BROOKS informed the committee that currently the department has about 250 employees that fall under the 20-year retirement plan. In those same biological positions there are about 363 that fall under the 30-year retirement plan. These two groups are working side-by-side. With regard to the deputized employees, he explained that every year the department sends a pool of employees to the Sitka Trooper Academy for about a week of training. These deputized employees complement enforcement efforts from the Department of Public Safety. Although that is part of the job, it is not the primary focus. Mr. Brooks noted his agreement with Mr. Hilsinger's comment that ADF&G employees and their hazardous duties can stood alone, apart from peace officers. CHAIR COGHILL turned to the disparity between state employment and federal employment [for a fish and/or wildlife position]. He asked Mr. Brooks to provide the committee with a percentage. MR. BROOKS remarked that the disparity between federal and state employment has been one of the department's largest frustrations. He said that the biggest difference is the 20 percent tax free COLA. TAPE 01-43, SIDE A MR. BROOKS informed the committee that the salary survey will compare state employment with federal employment; specific comparisons will be prepared. That survey will be available in May. CHAIR COGHILL asked if there are other disparities for ADF&G employees beyond the retirement plan. MR. BROOKS explained that the most recently hired employees enter a three-tier system that is dramatically different. He recalled that there is other legislation that would address those inequities. Someone hired today, would be under the 30- year retirement and receive 50 percent [of the health benefits upon retirement]. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if there has been a change in the number of years required for someone to become vested. MR. BROOKS said he believes that it takes five years to become vested. There was inaudible testimony from Kathy Lea, Retirement Supervision, Division of Retirement & Benefits, Department of Administration, regarding the three-tier system and the vesting requirements. Number 0304 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS said that he appreciated hearing from Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Doxey both of which could have retired after 20 years, but choose to stay. Therefore, Representative Stevens surmised that the good news is that under the 20-year retirement, it doesn't necessarily mean that an employee has to retire after 20 years; it is merely an option. Representative Stevens asked whether Mr. Brooks had any idea how many of the 250 employees under the 20-year retirement system have worked beyond 20 years. He also asked whether the 24 deaths that have occurred since statehood primarily involved low-level flights. He further asked how moving between administrative and field positions would impact retirement. MR. BROOKS first addressed the question regarding the percentage of employees working beyond their 20-year retirement. By virtue of the cutoff date, 1983, there is an increasing number of employees that are working past 20 years. However, he noted that some of those folks are seasonal. Mr. Brooks then turned to the question regarding the 24 fatalities in the department, which he believes were mainly aircraft fatalities. MR. BROOKS moved on to the question regarding whether moving between administrative and field positions would impact retirement and whether that is clear in the bill. Mr. Brooks said that the desire is to have this issue clear in the bill because "we" don't want anything in the bill to dissuade anyone from promoting. The intent is to identify those biological positions that are hazardous. From his own experience in the department, Mr. Brooks pointed out that every regional supervisor, deputy director, and director hired in the resource divisions has come through the ranks and has a biology degree. Mr. Brooks said that the department's position would be that the designation would carry if someone promoted outside of the strict biological definition. Number 0585 CHAIR COGHILL announced that he would like to hold HB 170 and discuss it again, although he expressed the need to get this bill to the House Finance Committee this year. However, he noted that there are several other bills that are traveling through the legislature that discuss workforce retention, recruitment, and parity. Chair Coghill clarified that he wanted to lay some of these side-by-side before passing them to the House Finance Committee. He noted that he also wanted to further discuss the peace officer link that HB 170 has. Therefore, Chair Coghill held HB 170 for further discussion. The committee took a brief at-ease. [Please note that the tape was changed at this point.] TAPE 01-44, SIDE A