HB 197-COMMUNITY SEED LIBRARIES  1:04:42 PM CO-CHAIR TARR announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 197, "An Act relating to the duties of the commissioner of natural resources; relating to agriculture; and relating to community seed libraries." 1:04:51 PM REPRESENTATIVE JENNIFER JOHNSTON, Alaska State Legislature, as the sponsor, introduced HB 197. She explained that HB 197 brings forth local issues related to growing one's own produce to feed family members. The idea for the bill, she continued, was brought to her attention by her daughter-in-law who was looking at heirloom seeds and researching the restrictions on the local exchange of seeds. 1:06:27 PM TERRANOVA TASKER, Staff, Representative Jennifer Johnston, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Johnston, sponsor, provided a sectional analysis of HB 197 as follows: Section 1 would amend the duties of the commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to include development and regulation of noncommercial seed use in community seed libraries. Sections 2 and 3 would add subsection (b) to Alaska Statute (AS) 03.05.030 to allow an exemption for seed libraries from regulations governing commercial seeds as long as they comply with AS 03.20.[110], which are the guidelines for community seed libraries, and do not violate regulations that pertain to patented use without permission, be misrepresented in classification, or be prohibited by the department as a noxious (harmful) seed. Section 4 would add new section 03.20.110 providing guidelines for seed libraries as follows: an individual can establish a community seed library that allows for 100 grams of [one variety of] seed [per person receiving the seed per year], and the packaging must be labeled with the variety, seller's name and address, year of packaging, weight of the contents, and a disclaimer statement that says not for commercial use. This section would also direct the department to create a seed registry for publication online. Section 5 would [add] language about community seed libraries to statute regulating plant materials centers already in existence within the University of Alaska system. Section 6 would amend AS 44.37.[030] to include community seed libraries in the information that the department must publish online and in print. Section 7 would amend [AS 44.37.030] to include a subsection that allows the Department of Natural Resources to advise people interested in starting a community seed library on best practices and to submit information about their library without a fee. 1:09:13 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH drew attention to the bill on page 2, lines 2-6 which read: assist prospective settlers and others [DESIRING] to engage in the agricultural industry in the state by  providing [WITH] information about [CONCERNING AREAS SUITABLE FOR AGRICULTURE AND OTHER] activities and programs essential to developing the [DEVELOPMENT OF THE] agricultural industry and areas in the state that  are suitable for agriculture; REPRESENTATIVE PARISH said the bill seems to make a substantial increase in the responsibilities of the commissioner of [DNR] by adding, "areas that are suitable for agriculture." MS. TASKER replied that she and Rob Carter, Manager, Plant Materials Center, Division of Agriculture, DNR, have discussed this and "suitable for agriculture" is wording that both DNR and the sponsor like to specify whatever area a community garden might take, whether that be someone's backyard or community land. Also, she noted, the seed statutes haven't been updated since the 1980's, so some language cleanup was done when she and [an attorney from] Legislative Legal Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, were going through the bill. She further pointed out that the bill has a zero fiscal note. 1:11:08 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH referred to a letter from Representative Talerico that he believed all committee members had signed, and which stated a bridge should be built to an area that is suitable for agriculture. Representative Parish said he doesn't want the [Division] of Agriculture itself being an advocate for bridge building because that is outside the [division's] main area of purview. Yet, he posited, the aforementioned provision would seem to add some responsibility to the [division] for that. MS. TASKER deferred to DNR. REPRESENTATIVE PARISH returned attention to page 2, line 6 and further inquired whether it is an increase in the responsibility of DNR to assist all the regions of the state in developing areas that are suitable for agriculture. 1:12:57 PM ARTHUR KEYES, Director, Division of Agriculture, DNR, answered that the Division of Agriculture sees the entire state as having agriculture potential of some form or another. In further response to Representative Parish, he said it is the responsibility of the division to help all regions of the state develop areas which are suitable to agriculture, but not necessarily in regard to infrastructure. 1:13:44 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked about the definition of community seed library and whether it is defined in statute. MS. TASKER responded that the term "community seed library" does not currently exist in statute. The bill would carve out a space in the statute that says seed libraries can exist, and provides the guidelines for labeling for seed libraries. Other states going through similar processes ran into the issue where, because of the way the statutes were written, every seed was regulated as if it was a commercial seed, which requires extensive labeling and testing. Nebraska and Minnesota went through their statutes and specifically added the words "community seed library" to carve out space for them so it is very clear that community seed libraries can exist even if not for commercial use purposes. 1:14:50 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND surmised that "community seed library" is defined somewhere in the bill. She inquired whether a community seed library includes the seed exchanges that gardeners around the state conduct each spring. MS. TASKER answered that [in the bill on page 3, beginning on line 20], Article 1A. Community Seed Libraries, lays out the guidelines for a community seed library. The issue the sponsor has run into is that there are some community seed exchanges happening around the state, Ester being the largest. Unfortunately, she said, because of the way the statute is written and based on the way the regulations are written, any seed that is used for any capacity in the state must go through that extensive testing germination percentages and labeling. Technically speaking, any seed library existing today is in violation of the code. However, she related, she has talked to Rob Carter and DNR thinks seed libraries are a great idea and therefore DNR is not assessing fees on current seed libraries. The department likes this bill because it would give DNR the authority to help and to promote seed libraries. 1:16:19 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked whether this means that seed libraries currently in existence in Alaska are doing something illegal and DNR supports the bill in order to control [seed libraries]. She said the intent of the bill is unclear if there are already community seed libraries springing up in an organic local way. REPRESENTATIVE JENNIFER JOHNSTON replied that the bill would strengthen seed libraries and would give them greater access to doing what they do best. She warned [the state] "could be getting into federal problems if we don't do this." 1:17:30 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted that her district has a farmers market and she is getting lots of feedback from her constituents about what this bill means for the already-existing informal seed exchanges that gardeners hold around the state. She asked what HB 197 means for existing seed exchanges. ROB CARTER, Manager, Plant Materials Center, Division of Agriculture, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), explained that the Plant Materials Center maintains and has the authority to regulate seeds, their transportation, their sales, and seed lot sales within the state of Alaska. In regard to what this bill would do if seed exchanges are already there, he said that technically seed libraries or any seed exchange in Alaska is against the state's current regulations. However, he continued, it is not in the best interest of plant diversity or food security in the state for the division to spend time and money harassing community-oriented folks who are sharing seeds and providing opportunities for food security in a region to say that they must follow these regulations that are really drafted for commercial use. So, technically, he reiterated, the non- commercial sharing of seed - under the prohibited acts section in [Alaska's] seed regulations - is outlawed. MR. CARTER pointed out that this bill, like many others around the U.S., is identifying that non-commercial use is as important as any issue that [the division] deals with in Alaska pertaining to food security. Crop genetic diversity, one of the foundation cornerstones of community seed sharing, is the most important key to sustainable agriculture and to food security in any region of the world, he added. The intent behind HB 197 is to put in statute that this is a legal activity and ensure that this non-commercial seed sharing activity is secured. Whether this activity is through a garden club, a fair, or a seed library, the bill is needed before other larger, non-state entities come into Alaska and start pushing federal or state regulations against these practices. 1:20:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND inquired as to how this will not cost staff time and money for the Plant Materials Center to manage these informal seed libraries that are already in existence. MR. CARTER responded as currently written, the bill says DNR "may" and does not direct the department to do anything. Community seed library is the legal language, he said, and HB 197 just gives the department the opportunity to promote seed libraries and have a place for them on the department's internet site. As a seed consumer himself, he continued, he would love to see a one-stop shop in the state that identifies all these seed sharing activities. 1:21:52 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked how the division will contact consumers in this regard. MR. CARTER answered that it would be a multi-faceted front like many of the things the department does. The department has great resources, such as utilization of the Alaska Grown program and all the individual gardeners and commercial farmers that the department works with already. Once individuals identify that the department has the ability to help support and promote their activities, he said, a simple web page could be put out where an individual could choose to be part of that web page. He related that he talks to many individuals who participate in these non- commercial seed sharing activities and the community is well versed that this legislation is out there. Some of them, he added, would be happy to contribute their location and contact phone numbers and dates for community events. 1:23:11 PM REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH inquired as to how this type of seed collection would be different from commercial seed collection for carrots in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley as to the source of the seeds and how they are preserved and maintained. MR. CARTER replied that there is very limited carrot seed production in the state of Alaska because carrots are a biennial plant and flower in their second year of growth. Commercially, he explained, carrot seeds are grown in areas like the Skagit Valley in Washington and other places around the world where they are harvested with a combine like any other large-scale seed production. They are cleaned and tested to meet both the state and federal regulations, he said, and then they are sold through brokers. Most of the farmers planting carrots on a commercial scale in Alaska order the seeds from a very large agri-business that sells tons of seeds at a time. Seeds that are sold commercially, he continued, have very strict federal and state guidelines to ensure that they follow both the state regulations and Federal Seed Act. 1:25:42 PM REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH surmised that when talking about regionally adapted seeds harvested from plants grown in-state, it is not necessarily a commercial operation. It would be a framework for monitoring and permitting through the internet the exchange of Alaska grown seeds. MR. CARTER responded that the bill does not have any monitoring requirements, nor does he think there is a need for any. Non- commercial use tends to be relatively small scale, he explained. It is individuals or a group of individuals who get together to try to overwinter some carrots and then replant them and collect the seeds to share amongst themselves. These normally are not hybrids, but rather heirlooms or open pollinated varieties that have been around for decades or longer. They are in small quantities. The real key to it, he said, is individuals who find a type or variety of seed, or a genus or species of a vegetable that produces well in their region. In turn they could harvest seed off that and legally share it amongst themselves, with no ramifications from either the Federal Seed Act or Alaska state seed regulations, and not impede the state's commercial seed producers and sellers. REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH said it sounds like a reasonable proposal. 1:27:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related a story of working in a gift store as a teenager and selling packages of Alaska seeds, with the fireweed seeds being wildly popular. Then at some point these seeds could not be sold anymore due to regulations and that is why she was pleased to become a co-sponsor of the bill. 1:28:54 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH remarked a good proportion of the plants grown in Haines came from his grandmother's garden. He asked where in statute seed sharing is illegal. MS. TASKER pointed out page 2, lines [12-14], establish that the department is regulating seeds, plants, and vegetables whether they are sold or not sold for use in the state. REPRESENTATIVE PARISH observed that is in statute. MS. TASKER responded yes. Continuing her answer, she noted that on page 3, lines 1-7 pertain to the labeling requirements so that any product that is being used, sold, or exchanged must be labeled. Then, one must go to the Alaska Administrative Code, Chapter 34, she said. This chapter has two pages of labeling requirements and sets out the germination percentage and the weight. Combining those two parts together, she pointed out, is makes it almost impossible for a seed library to exist, which she has confirmed with Mr. Carter. The statute is complicated and needs some updating, she added. 1:31:18 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH observed that on page 3, lines 1-2, state that the commissioner "may" adopt rules, regulations, and procedures. He offered his understanding that the commissioner has adopted rules and procedures which make all the seed libraries in the state and all the individuals sharing seeds right now, if not criminals, then at least engaged in extralegal activities. MS. TASKER answered correct and deferred to Mr. Carter for a further response. 1:32:17 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH directed his question to Mr. Carter and asked whether it is a regulatory hurdle that the past DNR commissioner has put in place that makes seed sharing by private individuals and seed libraries technically illegal. MR. CARTER replied that the biggest hurdle in those states that have come down hard on seed libraries and non-commercial seed sharing is the interpretation of the regulations and definitions of the words "offered for sale," "barter," and "trade". In Alaska, he continued, what really hinders non-commercial use is under 11 AAC 34.075, ["Prohibited acts"], which reads, "(a) No person may sell, offer for sale, expose for sale, or transport for use in planting in the state any agricultural or vegetable seed that [in part] (5) has not been tested within the 18 months preceding the sale, offering, or exposure for sale, or transportation". The seed libraries are not selling or offering seed for sale, he said, but the key to this is the testing within the 18 months preceding. So, technically, any individual who is moving seed in the state of Alaska, whether it is one seed or a million, who doesn't have the current labeling requirement of testing within the 18 months preceding is breaking the state's current regulations. In Alaska and around the country, that language is utilized to ensure that seed being moved around doesn't have invasive weeds in it and that is why that testing requirement has always been followed. That is really the tripping hurdle anyone who is transporting seed with the intended use to plant that doesn't have testing, which is required by the labeling requirements in Chapter 34, is breaking Alaska's regulations. 1:34:22 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH inquired why the problem cannot be solved by regulation. For example, he continued, regulation for transportation of over 100 pounds of seed. He further inquired why there isn't a lower boundary on the applicability of that because people have been doing seed sharing for as long as there has been agriculture. MR. CARTER agreed and said [DNR] has full intent to review, update, and modernize the regulations. He advised most people do not realize that Alaska has a lot of commercial seed production, and DNR would rather see those exemptions made for non-commercial use than to modify things that may jeopardize seeds being transported for sale or offered for sale within the state that do not meet the state's regulation requirements, he said. [The department] wants to avoid loopholes; seed regulations are not there to stop someone from doing something, he explained, but rather for consumer protection so that the seed really is what the label says it is for germination and no noxious weeds. Further, if he - in his role as plant materials manager - changed the regulations so that non-commercial use and seed libraries are not impeded, the regulations could be changed again by another manager. Therefore, putting a policy into statute protects this type of activity for generations to come. 1:36:54 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH suggested that perhaps Mr. Carter could amend the {statue and regulation] by adding the word "commercial" or "for commercial purposes" so someone wouldn't have to go through a seed library to legally be able to share seeds with neighbors. He then observed that the section of the bill for community seed libraries states that someone cannot give more than 100 grams of one variety to an individual within 12 consecutive months [page 3, lines 26-29]. He pointed out that some seeds, such as cherry pits, would reach that weight limit quickly. REPRESENTATIVE JENNIFER JOHNSTON responded she has forthcoming amendments to offer. 1:38:18 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH commented that the labeling requirements seem a bit stringent for what would normally be handed off in a Ziploc bag. MS. TASKER answered that the bill has five requirements for labeling, which is a downgrade from the [current] two pages of labeling requirements. Based on her talks with Mr. Carter about the requirements, she said there is some wiggle room. For example, someone could have a sign within the space with the statement "not authorized for commercial use" rather than on every package. The seller's name and address could be kept in a binder and not necessarily be on the package of seed. Something as simple as "purple flower" would be a reasonable request, she continued, as well as the weight of the package for purposes of tracking the weight limit requirement. She offered her opinion that these requirements are limited but the sponsor will address any issues. 1:39:28 PM CO-CHAIR TARR related that the 100-gram limit and the labeling were concerns expressed to her. She asked what the differentiation is between someone collecting seed from his or her own backyard and gifting it to a friend versus individuals participating in a seed library. MR. CARTER replied the intent of the bill, in his professional opinion, is the bill pertains to community seed libraries defined as a place where individuals can go and use those seeds. The sponsor and her staff have identified that the bill doesn't provide an exemption so that two persons could individually share seeds with one another. That would be easy to put into Article 1, he said, but the amendments need to be heard before it can be discussed much further. CO-CHAIR TARR urged that this differentiation be considered. She pointed out that people who collect seed for contributing to a seed library are going to want to include the genus, species, or variety information. This type of person is one step up from folks who just buy a few plants and have a pot in front of their house, she said, and therefore the committee might want to segregate that. 1:41:37 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted that some of the letters in the committee packet state that the bill is alarming. She said she thinks some of the concerns could be based on misinformation and urged for further discussion of the concerns. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSTON responded yes and asked Ms. Tasker to discuss the forthcoming amendments. 1:43:25 PM CO-CHAIR TARR asked Ms. Tasker to address amendments about the labeling concerns, the 100-gram limit, the requirement for being grown in-state, and treated seeds. MS. TASKER related that the sponsor is working on amendments in response to talks with the seed libraries. She also noted that some miscommunication about what the bill does has been brought to the attention of the sponsors, so the sponsors are working with stakeholders to explain what the bill really does. MS. TASKER said one forthcoming amendment addresses seeds that are grown outside Alaska. For example, seed libraries often receive seed donations from The Home Depot or other entities and the libraries have said they would like to be able to include these seeds. This makes sense, she said, because the seeds traveling from out of state have already undergone a labeling process as part of the federal interstate commerce rules. MS. TASKER stated the second forthcoming amendment responds to the concern about the weight limit and would increase the limit to one pound, which Mr. Carter has agreed is a limit that should cover most seed. MS. TASKER explained the third forthcoming amendment addresses the marijuana seed issue. This amendment would prohibit marijuana seeds from the seed library exchange. MS. TASKER, in regard to Mr. Carter's discussion about a personal exemption, said she would work with Legislative Legal Services on language for an amendment to address those concerns. REPRESENTATIVE PARISH requested an explicit [exemption] be given for personal non-commercial seed sharing. 1:46:28 PM CO-CHAIR TARR stated that this type of legislation has been passed by California, Nebraska, Illinois, and Minnesota, and she will post the California legislation on the web site for people to view. She said the aforementioned amendments cover the issues that she is concerned about. She asked Mr. Carter if he would like to add anything about the forthcoming amendments. MR. CARTER answered he doesn't see any issues with increasing the weight limit. He related that he has heard concerns about potatoes and root cuttings, but pointed out this is a formality with the state's regulations because the regulations define bulbs, straps, corms, and other such things as plants and so those are not regulated under the state's seed regulations and would have no weight restrictions. He said he feels the seed weight limit could be in the one-pound area without directly impacting anything and still providing the opportunity. MR. CARTER pointed out that agronomically all seeds cannot be produced in Alaska, so individuals get seed from friends or family in other states, or purchase seed from outside of Alaska that they want to use for non-commercial seed sharing activities. That exemption is needed, he said, and Article 1A, Community Seed Libraries, could easily be amended to provide an exemption for non-seed library seed sharing activities to allow for one person to give another person a package of seeds for his or her garden. MR. CARTER stated it would be up to the bill sponsor for the language that is required on packaging. He said that, as he reads the bill's current language, this could be done by a seed library with a single sign written on cardboard [displayed] above the library's seed sharing activities or within the library's seed sharing opportunities that just states these are seeds grown for non-commercial use and that would meet the requirements of the bill. MR. CARTER offered his opinion that this is important; Alaska is lucky because it has isolation and does not have large agriculture that tends to push a little heavier on these types of regulations. The opportunity for non-commercial use and seed libraries, he said, is what is going to provide for long-term sustainability and self-reliance in the state because people in both remote and non-remote areas may not have access to seed, but they may have access to seed that has been grown in their region. Having an agricultural system that is adapted to these community environments to be self-reliant is a large portion of sustainable agriculture in a state like Alaska, he advised. 1:50:44 PM CO-CHAIR TARR opened public testimony. 1:51:06 PM GRACE JOHNSTON testified in support of HB 197. She said she feels passionately about this bill because she is invested in Anchorage gardening and loves how a summer garden provides fresh and nutritious food for her family. The longer that produce is on the shelf, she explained, the more the nutrition decays, so it is important to her to be able to pick directly from the garden to table. She stated she is also firmly invested in the future of gardening in Alaska through her young daughter. She would like for her daughter to be able to grow up in a state where the specialized seeds that can flourish in Alaska, those that are cold- and sun-adapted, are readily available because these seeds are not commercially viable for larger seed producers in the Lower 48 or around the world. It is therefore important to ensure that Alaskans can legally and widely share these seeds throughout the state, she said. Explicitly allowing for seed libraries will ensure that that legacy remains for the present as well as future generations. 1:53:18 PM PATRICIA TREYDTE testified in support of HB 197, but with reservations as she has some concerns. She stated that if the subject hadn't been brought up it wouldn't need to be done. One of her concerns, she pointed out, is that the bill says "seller" as the person giving out the seeds. She questioned whether "seller" is the correct term or whether a term should be invented, such as "exchanger" or "sharer". CO-CHAIR TARR observed that "seller's name and address" is included as one of the five [labeling] requirements [on page 4, line 2]. She related that the sponsor and her staff are taking note of this concern. MS. TREYDTE reiterated that she doesn't know what the proper term would be, but that she doesn't think it should be "seller". MS. TREYDTE said another of her concerns is the 100-gram [weight limit], which would not go far, particularly if someone wanted to grow a quarter acre of grain for feeding to chickens. She urged that this be addressed. MS. TREYDTE pointed out that Alaska has a viable commercial seed potato industry and expressed her concern that the bill does not address potatoes in either start or seed form. She recognized that seed potatoes would not be included in the bill, but warned that potato, tomato, and eggplant seeds can carry late blight. Tomato seeds, she continued, are one of the most precious and often exchanged seeds because they are easy to save. She asked whether this is something that needs to be addressed since the potato industry needs to be protected. CO-CHAIR TARR offered her understanding that the purchase of certified seed potatoes is required. She requested Mr. Carter to address Ms. Treydte's concern about potato, tomato, and eggplant seeds. 1:56:20 PM MR. CARTER replied that the purchase of certified seed potatoes is required for commercial use. CO-CHAIR TARR inquired whether Mr. Carter thinks tomato, eggplant, and other seeds like that should be specifically mentioned or differentiated in the bill. MR. CARTER responded that if it the subject was live plants he would say yes, but the bill is only talking about seeds and therefore he doesn't think it is necessary. Within that family, the easiest thing for seed savers is that they don't look for plants that have disease or that biologically aren't in good shape. They are allowing the fruit to go to maturity so that the seeds mature. A late blight infected tomato plant, he advised, would be a very poor performer and it would not be in the best interest of anyone to maintain it or collect seed from it. He said the department currently has registration for live tomato plants being shipped into the state, as well as for potatoes and within that family, but within this non-commercial seed sharing use he doesn't feel it is necessary. CO-CHAIR TARR observed that Section 6 discusses the department's duties and gives DNR the ability to publish information about seed libraries. She suggested that perhaps this information could direct seed libraries to be careful in terms of the kind of information that is shared with participants so things like that could be prevented. MR. CARTER answered that currently the department doesn't have the authority to spend any time or effort working with the non- commercial use of seed. He said he therefore believes HB 197, and that section specifically, would provide DNR the opportunity to not regulate, but to help promote and identify non-commercial seed sharing activities, and he is very comfortable with that. 1:59:06 PM DAVID OTNESS testified in support of HB 197. He stated that as a gardener he wants to see anything that would facilitate the transfer of seeds and provide agricultural awareness because people growing their own food is something that has really taken off. Anything to make [seed transfer] not illegal would be a good thing, he added. Drawing attention to page 2, line 25, he asked why the bill includes regulating the farming of elk. CO-CHAIR TARR replied that that is an existing statute under the current duties of the DNR commissioner and therefore it is not something that is being added or changed by the bill. She explained that when a section of statute is amended the whole section shows up in the bill. 2:01:48 PM CO-CHAIR TARR, after ascertaining that no one else wished to testify, closed public testimony. 2:01:57 PM HB 197 was held over.