HB 105-DENALI WOLF SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA  2:06:25 PM CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 105, "An Act establishing the Gordon Haber Denali Wolf Special Management Area." 2:06:42 PM CO-CHAIR TARR moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 105, labeled 30-LS0408\O, Bullard, 3/16/17, as the working document. There being no objection, Version O was before the committee. 2:07:21 PM CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, sponsor of HB 105, noted that the original bill has a fiscal note from the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). However, he advised, Version O may generate a fiscal note with minimal impact from the Department of Public Safety, Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers, and will possibly have a fiscal note with zero impact from the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G). He reminded members that during today's House of Representatives floor session he announced that the committee would convene within 15 minutes of adjournment of the floor session. 2:08:31 PM MEGAN ROWE, Staff, Representative Andy Josephson, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Josephson, prime sponsor of HB 105, explained that the original bill version would have created the Denali Wolf Special Management Area to protect wolves near Denali National Park and Preserve ("Denali Park") and that the title in which it was drafted was administered by DNR. However, she noted, DNR does not have the authority to manage wildlife, and therefore, per advice of the administration, Version O includes the same geographic area but closes this area to the hunting and trapping of wolves. 2:09:45 PM CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON reminded members that HB 105 was before the committee on 2/10/17 and 2/15/17 and public testimony was taken. He again opened public testimony on the bill. DOUGLAS MCINTOSH testified that he has lived in Fairbanks for 46 years and wholeheartedly supports HB 105. He said he specifically likes that the bill's purpose remains to protect wolves for future generations of Alaskans and, as well, bolsters the economy of Alaska through tourism. Seeing wild animals living free in their natural environment is one reason he came to Alaska, he added. CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON closed public testimony on HB 105, after ascertaining that a previous witness, Mr. Al Barrette of Fairbanks, had no comment on the changes made in Version O. 2:12:46 PM CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON recalled that during the 2/10/17 hearing committee members raised questions on the original bill, such as questions about private lands and whether the narrative which stated that wolves come before all other things in the buffer zone would mean "just that." To dispense with those legitimate questions, he said, Version O would make a simple closure. He related that ADF&G's web site lists about 37 areas as presently closed to hunting or trapping. Regarding the closure concept, he noted that a provision in the constitution [prohibits] special and local legislation. However, he continued, case law says that if something is of statewide importance and applies in a local way, it may not necessarily be prohibited. For example, on 2/10/17 it was heard that Denali Park has 650,000 visitors per year and over $800 million is spent in salaries at the park. Some people, he related, believe that as few as three trappers are impacting the ability of visitors to see wolves in the park. While they have rebounded some, the decline of wolves roughly parallels when the State of Alaska, ADF&G, and the Board of Game removed the buffer in question, or at least a buffer in similar size and similar location near the Stampede Trail and east of the George Parks Highway, although, he allowed, this may be a contestable point. 2:16:11 PM REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH advised that his vote on the bill will be no. He said he has lived and worked in this area, including at the Stampede mine in the late 1960s, and President Carter used the Antiquities Act to set aside the area in the late 1970s. This is a solution in search of a problem, he maintained. A witness from ADF&G indicated that the wolf population in the park ebbs and flows with game availability and game availability impacts the wolf population greater than anything else, he recalled. Alaska has enough park and reserve lands, he opined, and work should be done on how to better utilize the lands that are available to the state rather than setting aside properties. He offered his belief that all or part of this proposal is in the Denali Borough and suggested looking to the borough for leadership regarding the trapping aspect. 2:18:01 PM REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO apologized for arriving late to the meeting and inquired whether the vote is for the committee substitute (CS) or adoption of the bill. CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that he will treat Representative Birch's statement as an objection, and said the vote is for the question of whether the bill should move from committee. CO-CHAIR TARR added that the committee adopted Version O as the bill under consideration, but that no motion has been made to move bill. CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON reiterated his earlier explanation that Version O creates a closure and no other designation. 2:18:58 PM REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he is intimately familiar with this area and will not be supporting the bill. Drawing attention to the map of the proposed area, he said that the east side of the Nenana River where the boundary goes is "absolutely crawling with wolves." Wolves follow their food source and a portion of the packs that were in the Stampede area have probably drifted over due to the high moose population on that side of the river. It is the largest pack he has ever seen, he added, and he believes this pack will split soon. He related a conversation he had with a Denali Park bus driver in which the driver said the wolves were seen during one period of time because they had chosen to den near the road, but once the den location changed the wolves were only seen one at a time every once in a while. Representative Talerico reported that this issue came up before the Denali Borough while he was mayor of the borough, but a draft ordinance before the borough died. 2:21:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said it makes sense to listen to the local people's comments. One major wolf was killed, she recalled, but one cannot go back in time and fix it. She maintained that the bill is trying to address a specific wolf pack that was being researched and was near and dear to people's hearts, rather than the general wolf packs around the park. One wolf is just as valuable being seen in the park as any other, she continued, not just those being researched, and therefore she will vote no. 2:23:22 PM REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER referred to an article he read and said that the science needs to be considered. Plenty of wolves are there, he maintained, and without a food source a wolf pack cannot be kept there, so trapping may not be the problem. It is difficult to write a law so that maybe a wolf will be viewed since what is trying to be done is to have wolf viewing by not trapping. He questioned whether there is science behind the bill and reiterated that there may be more involved than trapping as the reason for why the wolves moved on. 2:26:09 PM REPRESENTATIVE PARISH noted he has a degree in biology and is heartened to hear science being referenced. Because he comes from a tourist town, he noticed that the North Star Borough's resolution states that when the area was closed to trapping 49 percent of visitors saw wolves, while over the last three years that number was only 4 percent, an all-time low. Since the wolf population was decreased by about one-third of what it was during that time, he said he cannot help but think that for the residents of that area and for whoever would make a trip to Denali Park, it could be a major economic factor going forward. For example, he continued, the value of an individual humpback whale has been assessed in terms of generating additional tourist revenues and it is not cheap, so he would bet that the value to the state overall of a single wolf in that area is very considerable. It is economically wise to set aside a certain area, he stated. All nature asks for is a space to exist and it provides such incredible dividends - a pure stream of water provides salmon, an area of wilderness provides all sorts of economic drivers such as food for subsistence and other sorts of harvest, as well as non-consumptive uses like from a tourist dollar. Additionally, he continued, there is the loss of a decades-long [research] data set, a rare and precious thing. 2:28:23 PM CO-CHAIR TARR offered her appreciation of Representative Parish's comments because in large part that is what is drawing her to support the legislation. Denali Park has more than 500,000 visitors a year, she continued, and right now with the state's fiscal situation the state is looking towards the industries that are known to be sustainable and have growth potential, and the state's tourism industry is certainly one of those. Her hope is that people coming to Denali Park for that experience will "stick around and spend a lot more money while they're here." Tourism is important given that it is currently the state's number three industry. Referencing a National Geographic story and an article in the Los Angeles Times, she reported that in 1999 a collared alpha female was shot and in 2012 a trapper dragged a horse carcass to an active wolf site and set traps that caught a pregnant female belonging to the East Fork Pack. In 2012 this same trapper caught the only remaining breeding female in the Granite Creek Pack; consequently, that pack produced no pups and was reduced from 15 wolves to 3. The trapper's comment, seemingly spoken with pride, was that that was the third time he ruined millions of people's Denali Park viewing experience. These types of articles are not a good image for Alaska and give the state a "black eye," she opined. Offering her support for the bill, she said it is the right move for now and can be revisited in the future and something else tried if the bill does not work. 2:31:19 PM REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE stated he has always viewed wolves as a biological resource, whether it is to put money in his wallet when he personally handles it or to put money into the state from people coming into Denali Park. If he sees more than two wolves when out camping, he continued, then he has seen too many. He said he is conflicted in that only half the battle is won if it is done on the visitors' side; having the money come in makes sense but it is a tough decision. Alaska should be exciting for everyone, he opined, and whether it is moose or wolves it translates into dollars for the economy or provides a great story to tell the kids. 2:32:51 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her appreciation for Co-Chair Tarr's reference to the Los Angeles Times article because that is where many of Alaska's tourists originate. She would much prefer for it to be in the Los Angeles Times that Alaska is working to protect these wolves and increase their numbers, she continued, rather than aerial spotting of wolves by ADF&G and the gassing of [pups] in their dens. Offering her support for the bill, she noted that while wolves do not have regard for boundaries, people do, and if this isn't done it will never be known if it works. If this doesn't work it can be revisited in the future, but at this point in time it would be wise to respect the signs and help the wolves rebound. 2:34:00 PM CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report CSHB 105, Version 30-LS0408\O, Bullard, 3/16/17, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO objected. 2:35:06 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Westlake, Drummond, Parish, Tarr, and Josephson voted in favor of the motion to report CSHB 105, Version 30-LS0408\O, Bullard, 3/16/17, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. Representatives Rauscher, Talerico, Birch, and Johnson voted against it. Therefore, CSHB 105(RES) was reported out of the House Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 5-4.