HRES - 03/06/95 Number 322 HB 170 INTENSIVE MANAGEMENT OF GAME REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, PRIME SPONSOR, stated since the bill, itself, was discussed a week ago, he would not overview the bill again. He said there are people on teleconference who would like to make comments and also answer questions. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHB 170(RES), version G dated March 3, 1995. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted there was a hand out which compares version C to version G of HB 170. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY stated there is no substantive changes in version G, only a tightening up of the language. Number 389 SANDRA ARNOLD, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA WILDLIFE ALLIANCE, testified via teleconference. She stated she has spoken with many biologists who all say the same thing about HB 170 and that is, it is biologically unachievable unless there is an intention to have a predator level at zero. She stressed many Alaskans value the fact that Alaska is different--it still does have abundant predators and spends 6 percent more dollars each year on dealing with wildlife in non-consumptive activities. She noted she keeps hearing that the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) needs to stop managing people and start managing the resource. She felt people management is and has always been an inherent part of wildlife management. She pointed out urban hunters should be more than willing to take a year off from moose hunting or travel a little farther to where the caribou and moose are abundant, rather than scream for more predator control. MS. ARNOLD wondered why no one has talked about the cost of HB 170. Intensive management of game is very costly. She said if what the bill asks for is possible, it would be quite expensive to achieve. The sustained yield principle is complex and cannot be taken care of in a two page bill. She noted it is easy to understand concepts--a balanced budget is an easy to understand concept but it is very difficult to obtain. She stressed it takes time, research, and a non-stop effort to get wildlife to do what is desired and HB 170 will not change that fact. She told committee members to let HB 170 die and the existing SB 77 be negated. MS. ARNOLD felt the state should start over and try to come up with a coherent, state-wide predator/prey management policy--one that has broad-based support and where a diverse group of people are invited to the table to discuss. She said this issue will go on and on and there will be lawsuits, controversies, etc. In the meantime, the resource will suffer. She stated her organization would love to settle the issue and move on. They would gladly come to the table in good faith to try and work out a compromise. She stressed HB 170 and SB 77 are only going to perpetuate the strife over predator control in Alaska and continue to divide Alaskans. Number 433 MICHAEL TETREAU, SEWARD, testified via teleconference and stated public lands should not be used for single species management. He said management which favors one or two species also favors equally certain interest groups and not the general public. Public lands should be managed to maintain natural eco-system processes. He noted single species management practiced in the past has resulted in unexpected and undesirable results. He stated the bill also references the restoration of the abundance or productivity of identified big game prey populations. He stressed there is a big difference between abundance and productivity. He felt productivity should be used, not abundance. MR. TETREAU stated HB 170 also eliminates the possibility of placing restrictions on methods or means of taking game, access to game, or human harvest of game. He said the people cannot be ignored and any game management should take a holistic approach. He noted throughout the bill, the term big game prey is used as opposed to large ungulates or moose and caribou. He felt the true intent of the bill is nothing more than predator control. Number 458 JIM RAMSDELL, SEWARD, testified via teleconference and stated when he heard of HB 170 he wondered how anyone could bring up such legislation when Alaska is still reeling from the recent outcry over wolf control efforts. He realized the bill was just another effort by lawmakers to control Alaska's wild in an effort to boost (indiscernible). He said he is a wildlife lover and deals with many of the tourists coming to Alaska to view the wildlife and feel the state's wild spirit. He stated he could not believe the legislature, by their actions, would not care what tourists and outsiders say, while standing with outstretched hands, taking millions and millions of tourist dollars. MR. RAMSDELL stated there is much more to the issue than just predation including weather, food supply, bull/cow ratios, and hunting pressure. He said in view of past legislation, freezers full of moose, caribou, and deer can do much more damage than good. He recommended HB 170 be killed. Number 479 MARK LUTTRELL, PRESIDENT, EASTERN KENAI PENINSULA ENVIRONMENTAL ACTION ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference and stated if HB 170 is not taken seriously, this bill is just a nuisance bill and gets in the way of real wildlife management. He felt the sponsors are guilty of what environmentalists are often accused of--filing lawsuits to allegedly delay or try to up the costs of a particular agency action. He said if HB 170 is taken seriously and there is some wildlife management (indiscernible) in this bill, he felt it is still a bad bill and the conclusion is that wolves are bad, they should be killed and moose are good, we need them. He stressed there is much more involved in the way people interact with wildlife and there is much more to the ecology of predator/prey relationships. He recommended HB 170 be killed. Number 510 OLIVER BURRIS, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and stated he is a retired wildlife biologist. He stressed he is not a legal wordsmith on the construction of the bill but expressed his major concern is the neglected management on non-management of the state's wildlife resources, primarily moose and caribou. He pointed out that most Interior moose populations are only one-tenth to one-half of former levels. He noted 90-95 percent of the calves are killed before they reach 16 months of age, where they could contribute to the harvest by humans. He added that 75 percent are killed before their first winter, meaning a high winter loss is not being looked at in most of the situations. Moose harvest, typically, is only about three to five percent of the annual calf crop of these moose and caribou populations. MR. BURRIS said no where does anyone come close to harvesting 30-50 percent of the harvestable surplus which is obtainable through any reasonably active management program and does not require the zero elimination of predators. Active management can support high densities of predators. Areas have been seen where active management programs were in place and predator density was restored to the number per square mile per area density much higher than what it was before the active management program started. He stressed the idea there is a need to eliminate predators to have an active management program is false. Number 537 SAM HARBO, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT & STATISTICS, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and stated there are compelling environmental arguments for greater utilization of northern ungulates. He said more and more ecologists are recognizing that greater dependence and greater utilization on local resources is the environmental way to go. Environmentalists arguing against greater utilization on local resources, particularly renewable resources such as moose, caribou and sheep, are on the wrong side of the environmental issue. He pointed out they have left their value system get in the way of sound environmental reasoning. MR. HARBO stated active management, which he believes the bill should be called, over prey populations undoubtedly is going to require greater effort and hence, costs on the part of the department. He said it does not take much effort by the department to manage a moose population if only about one and one-half percent of the population is being taken, which is restricted to bulls only. He felt passive management does not cost much. Active management is going to cost more. He stressed the environmental advantages of utilizing local resources and much greater returns at the local level warrant, in very selected areas, more management than what is occurring currently. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recalled that Mr. Burris had mentioned a low number between one and one-half and three percent of human harvest. He wondered if Mr. Burris was talking about the entire herd. He noted that Mr. Burris had talked about a 75 percent mortality of newborns that were not harvested. He asked if the three percent involve those who mature later or of the entire herd. MR. BURRIS responded the figures he used involve looking at the number of offspring being born into the population. He said the harvest by humans normally equals...he was not talking about the harvest of calves but the harvest of some adults in the population...to between three and five percent of those calves which are being born into the population each year. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified there would be 75 percent killed by other causes and three percent of a number of calves born would ultimately be harvested. MR. BURRIS said that is correct. He stated when the overall figures are looked at on the number of calves being born, and those who survived until at least 16 months of age are looked at, it will be found that only five to ten percent of those calves have survived to 16-18 months of age. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified if 100 calves are born, 75 of those will die before they have their first winter and by the time those calves reach 18 months, there will only be five or ten calves. MR. BURRIS said that is correct. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that of those five or ten calves, three are harvested. MR. BURRIS responded the equivalent of three are harvested. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified between 30-60 percent of the harvestable calves are currently being harvested. MR. BURRIS said that was correct and added after all other mortality has taken place. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated the sponsor is saying, therefore, let us get into that 75 percent and reduce that percent so the numbers reaching 18 months will go up. MR. BURRIS stated that is correct. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN announced HB 170 will be rescheduled at a later date.