HB 337-BD OF ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, SURVEYORS    4:00:05 PM CHAIR OLSON announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 337, "An Act relating to the Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors and to the Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development." 4:00:39 PM REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON stated that this bill would add a full- time investigator assigned to the Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS). 4:01:22 PM LYNETTE BERGH, Staff, Representative Steve Thompson, Alaska State Legislature, Alaska State Legislature, stated that HB 337 will revise the statutes to increase the part-time investigator to a full-time investigator position. Currently, the AELS shares one part-time investigator with five other boards, including construction contractors, home inspectors, electrical administrators, mechanical administrators, and storage tank workers. The investigator's oversight covers 20,000 licensees, of which 5,600 licensees relate the AELS board. Further, a new regulation will take effect in the next 30 days, which will add 10 additional engineering disciplines will be added to the AELS Board. The branches of engineering the AELS board will oversee will increase from 6 to 16 branches, including structural, environmental, nuclear, and industrial engineering. This will add to the already heavy work load the department's investigator covers. She stressed the necessity of expanding the engineering disciplines for the safety of Alaskans, but it will add to an already heavy workload of the board's part-time investigator. Additionally, each of the six boards the investigator oversees has as an increasing number of licensees. 4:03:58 PM MS. BERGH said the part-time investigator continually faces pressure to spend less time on the AELS board and more time on the other boards under his purview. Further, this sole investigator must maintain knowledge of statutes and regulations for all six boards. Clearly, the lack of a full-time investigator for the board could potentially reduce its effectiveness in carrying out charges required by the state statutes and regulations. One unintended consequence of overloading the investigator could result in a failure to fulfill to the fullest extent the state and regulatory charges. She concluded that this will put the state at risk and may inadvertently create a hazard to public health, safety, and welfare. She highlighted that HB 337 will ensure that the AELS board can continue the proper oversight of the AELS board's licensees, while remaining in compliance with all state regulations and statutes. She predicted that hiring a full-time investigator will help the AELS board maintain its reputation and integrity with respect to the professions it oversees. 4:05:37 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER questioned the need to expand engineering specialties. MS. BERGH answered that specific engineering branches need to have some guidance to ensure public health, safety, and welfare. She explained that at the last board meeting the AELS approved added professions and branches; 10 different professions. REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether one investigator will be sufficient to cover the additional licensees. 4:06:50 PM MS. BERGH answered that one investigator would be amenable. She pointed out that the AELS board could revisit the matter at future board meetings. 4:07:26 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether the current investigator would resign from the other boards. MS. BERGH offered to her knowledge that the investigator would do so. She deferred to the department to elaborate. 4:08:00 PM DON HABEGER, Director, Division of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing, Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED), introduced himself. 4:08:48 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked the current investigator serves five other boards and HB 337 passes if this investigator would be assigned as the full-time investigator. He further asked if someone else would be hired to cover the additional five boards. MR. HABEGER responded that the division would decide if current investigator is the appropriate choice for this board, and if so, he would be transferred to the new position control number (PCN). The division would have a vacant position and would do so through the job announcement network typically used. 4:09:34 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked if the division has any indication of whether the current investigator is interested in serving. MR. HABEGER said the division would encourage the investigator to consider the full-time position. 4:10:00 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked if the division anticipates an increase in the number of investigations due to the engineering branch expansion. MR. HABEGER offered his belief that investigations would increases since the workload has increased over time. He explained that recent legislative audits discussed investigative timeliness. He reported that the 1,100 complaints arose in FY 11, and the investigators indicate a good case load is 35-40 cases. He anticipated that expanding this position to a full- time position would allow the board and division to address the issue more cases rather than raising the bar on investigations, such as only addressing the cases with the highest health and safety issues. 4:11:16 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER questioned whether one investigator is sufficient and if licensees will agree to bear the cost. MR. HABEGER recalled the AELS Board underwent a fee increase in fall and the division picked a price point and experienced significant kickback. He pointed out the difficulty in predicting an investigation's outcome, whether it will result in a consent agreement and voluntary compliance or due to unresolved legitimate issues will require a hearing process or be resolved by the courts. Thus investigative outcomes are unpredictable. He acknowledged that at some point licensees resist any cost increases. He described this process as reaching a balance and he was not certain. 4:12:40 PM ERIC ERICKSEN, P.E., Electrical Engineer; Member, Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board) testified in support of HB 337. He stated that he is an Alaska resident, an electrical engineer, and has served on the AELS board for three years. During this time, he said he has had the opportunity gain knowledge on the investigative process and the growing concern over increases in investigations and the investigator's ability to conduct them. He reiterated that when an investigator cannot get through all the cases, that cases are prioritized. This results in cases that do not get reviewed. He referred to position papers in members' packets, in particular, from the Chair of the AELS board. He agreed with his recommendations. He concluded with his support for HB 337 and the health and safety of the public. 4:14:21 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER related his understanding that the licensing fees will be adjusted upward to cover the additional fees for the additional half-time position. He inquired as to whether the engineering profession was willing to cover the cost. MR. ERICKSEN answered that the fees will be evaluated. He was unsure of whether the fees would change, but if they do he would personally support the change. He offered his belief that the professional license fees are typically lower than many other states. He predicted an increase in fees would be supported. 4:15:16 PM MR. HABEGER stated that state law requires the division to analyze the program to determine if the revenue stream meets the board's expenses. If the revenue does not meet the next biennial license cycle, which is a two-year cycle, the division must adjust the fees and pass the cost on to the professions, which in this instance are architects, engineers, land surveyors, and landscape architects. He offered his belief that the fees would likely have to adjust upward to cover the investigator position. 4:16:24 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON recalled complaints about the Real Estate Licensing Board since their fees doubled when the board expanded its powers. He questioned whether any checks and balances exist since government will grow to fill the void. He expressed concern that there do not seem to be controls on the boards. He noted he was making a general statement. He pointed again to the real estate licensing fees which increased considerably. He said he has talked to real estate agents that indicate the board is doing things the agents do not really want them to do, but they must pay for it. He reiterated his question about the current checks and balances to ensure that the boards do not get out of control and pass through to their membership. MR. HABEGER responded that the law requires him to pass through the costs. He thinks the check and balance is the public comment process, which worked relatively effectively with respect to the real estate fee. 4:18:40 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether the statute should be changed and deposit license fees into the general fund, but to figure a better way to handle this process. MR. HABEGER responded with a comment. One of the things he has heard given Real Estate Commission fee issues is how to nab perpetrators, or those that do not want to abide by statutes and regulations. He said he does not see a great mechanism to do this, but he views this as a great discussion point. He recapped that the short answer is the discussion needs to continue. 4:20:15 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his view that professionals are doing their jobs and it is tough enough to do business in the state. He said he wants to protect entrepreneurs and he would like to hold that discussion. He commented that government will expand to fill the void and if ten investigators were hired they would find work to accomplish. He related that he would like to be cautious about pass through of costs to membership without checks and balances. He wanted to be sure that the legislature is not saddling businesses with more state bureaucracy. 4:21:48 PM CHAIR OLSON related his understanding with respect to real estate issues that two large ongoing investigations expended a substantial amount. He thought one investigation went off in different direction and is still ongoing. MR. HABEGER offered his belief that the case in question is currently in Superior Court. CHAIR OLSON offered that the attorney fees were substantial. MR. HABEGER answered yes, noting the expenses are charged back to licensees. 4:23:07 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER referred to page 2, lines 1-2, which read, "(2) shall, at the request of the board, conduct investigations...." He asked whether an investigator can conduct investigations in opposition to the will of the board. MR. HABEGER responded that the division's centralized statutes allow the division to also do some work, such as conduct investigations. He offered his belief that this works in tandem with the board. He said the board can direct the investigator, but the department would have a duty to investigate a complaint in violation to the AELS statutes and regulations. 4:24:32 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification that the board or department can direct an investigation. He questioned whether the board could block an investigation. MR. HABEGER answered that it has not happened. 4:24:52 PM COLIN MAYNARD, Structural Engineer; Member, Alaska Professional Design Council (APDC) stated he has served several terms on the board of the APDC, an organization that represents architects, engineers, landscape architects, interior designers, and land surveyors. He highlighted one of his roles as a board member was chair of the AELS task force to assess industry on board actions. He pointed out that one thing the APDC task force found the AELS board did not conduct enough investigations, that it was taking too long to conduct the investigation, and some activity was ignored since it fell out of the most important level or the attorney general's office declined prosecution. He reiterated that the industry supports the additional investigator and will pay additional fees so long as the investigations happen. He commented that AELS license renewal fees have gone from $125 to $175 and back to $125. He offered his belief that the fewer investigations will happen during the biennial timeframe and more are conducted in the next. Thus the fluctuations in the investigations affect license fees. Additionally the division has suffered budget cuts even though the licensure fees pay for the costs of the division. He said, "We're willing to pay what it takes to get the job done." 4:27:07 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that is a dangerous statement. He asked for clarification on whether the AELS board is willing to pay anything to get the job done. MR. MAYNARD said, "Within reason." He also said he has found the AELS board is comprised of licensees and one public member, who have worked with the APDC to ensure public safety. 4:27:41 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that his concerns are bigger than this one board. MR. MAYNARD suggested that the legislature could increase the fines. He pointed out that the attorney general's office has larger cases to prosecute so the AELS cases languish. Thus a larger civil penalty could help. CHAIR OLSON offered to work on the larger issue during the interim. 4:28:28 PM BRIAN HANSON, Civil and Mining Engineer; Member, Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board), testified in support of HB 337. He said the investigator has a significant backlog of cases, noting the sheer number of cases the investigator currently has plus the one awaiting review. The investigator has approximately 50 open cases, with about double the amount for review that is a significant backlog. He covers five other boards so the investigator's travel is limited. Current the investigator focuses time on cases in the Anchorage and Matanuska-Susitna area, with an occasional trip to the Kenai Peninsula Borough and Fairbanks. He surmised that half the state receives coverage with a half-time investigator. He pointed out that lots more engineering and other design work is happening throughout the state. Additionally, the board investigator cannot use training opportunities offered nationally as well as network, due to time and travel constraints. He offered his belief that adding this half-time position will help AELS meet its responsibilities by protecting the public's health, safety, and welfare. He was not willing to say the registrants are willing to pay whatever it costs but the additional cost would result in a fee increase of $10 per registrant per year, and not $200 per registrant biennial license fee. He stated that he is in support of HB 337. 4:31:42 PM DALE NELSON, Civil Engineer; Legislative Liaison Committee, Alaska Professional Design Council, LLC (APDC), stated he is a professional civil engineer and has been registered in the state since 1973. He serves as the chair of the legislative liaison committee for the Alaska Professional Design Council, LLC (APDC). He related that Mr. Maynard is also an active member of APDC, which is a professional organization comprised of member societies including The Alaska Society of Professional Engineers (ASPE), the Alaska Society of Professional Land Surveyors, the American Congress of Surveying and Mapping - Alaska Section, the American Institute of Architects - Alaska Chapter, the American Society of Civil Engineers - Alaska Section, the American Society of Landscape Architects - Alaska Chapter, the American Council of Engineering Companies of Alaska, and the American Society of Interior Designers, and the Structural Engineer Association. This organization has a membership of over 1,500 members representing over 5,000 licensed professionals in the state. The APDC LLC in very much in favor of this bill and views it as a move in right direction as it will increase the investigator of the design professionals to a fulltime position. 4:34:08 PM BOYD BROWNFIELD, Civil Engineer; Member, Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board) stated that he has been a registered civil engineer in Alaska since 1975. He has most recently served on the AELS Board for eight years. He supports the bill. He has served as the AELS Board chair for two years and as vice chair for four years. When he began service in 2004, the board had two fulltime investigators, but due to workload the investigator was increased to two and one- half investigator positions. Although the workload has increased, the investigator position has been reduced to one part-time investigator position. The investigator position has effectively been reduced to 15 percent of one investigator since the position's responsibility is spread over five boards. He offered his belief that the AELS's investigator is one of the most dedicated and efficient investigators in the division. The investigator serves the third largest board, with the Board of Nursing, Barbers & Hairdressers as larger boards, but the AELS Board is larger than the Medical Board, yet the medical board has a designated investigator. He emphasized that the AELS Board needs the investigator position since the board serves four distinct professions and the six engineering branches will soon to expand to 15 branches. He further emphasized the need to have an investigator solely assigned to the AELS Board. He urged members to support the bill. He referred to a letter from Mr. Harley Hightower, AELS Board chair in members' packets. This letter covers the important issues surrounding the need for a full-time investigator. He offered his support for HB 337. 4:37:44 PM HARLEY HIGHTOWER, Architect; Chair, Board of Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyor (AELS Board) stated that he has been registered as an architect in the state since 1964. He has served as a principal architect since 1974. He currently serves as AELS Board chair. He agreed with the prior testimony. He spoke in support of HB 337 for numerous reasons. He related that it is difficult for an inspector to stay current on statutes for one board, but very difficult to cover five boards. He pointed out that the AELS Board serves 5,600 registrants and 580 corporations. In 2008 and 2009 the AELS Board added 220 new licenses each year. In 2010 and 2011, the board increased by 350 new licensees each year. He anticipated the licensees to grow due to expansion of engineering disciplines. He acknowledged that Alaska is a small population state and the investigator likely covers about 15 percent of the state. The AELS Board cannot adequately ensure public health, safety and welfare without investigator support. He highlighted that this translates into liability exposure to the state. The costs will be covered by registration fees. He has been registered in other states and finds the licensure reasonable fees in Alaska, probably falling in the low average of the fee structure. 4:40:49 PM RICHARD HEIEREN, Land Surveyor; Member, Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board), stated that he is speaking in support of HB 337. He has served as an AELS Board member since 2005 and also endorses previous comments. He added that a perception of lack of enforcement exists within the professions. He noted that in vehicle enforcement writing one speeding violation may impact the number of speeders. He suggested that HB 337 will go long way in alleviating the perception of a lack of enforcement. He offered his belief that the cost is minimal, about $8-10 per licensee per year. He did not think that was too much money to protect the professions, but public health, safety, and welfare. He asked members to please support HB 337. 4:43:25 PM REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON said that the committee heard from Mr. Hightower that the lack of a full-time investigator has limited the cases. He asked whether any instances of this have happened in Fairbanks. MR. HEIEREN said he has heard through the grapevine from some who were cited that enforcement was laughable. He did not want to disparage the enforcement; however, the perception is a low level of enforcement occurs. 4:44:44 PM BURT LENT, Landscape Architect Member, Board of Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board), stated that he is the sole landscape architect member. He has been serving on the board for 6.5 years and has been practicing landscape architecture since 1975. The profession was initially licensed in the state in 2000. The landscape architects now have 12 years as registrants and more people are coming along. He pointed out that licensure requires examination in arctic engineering or Northern Design, which is unique and excellent way to introduce people to problems in Alaska. He explained that Alaska has lots of major land and environmental issues in the design work. He emphasized the importance for landscape architect's licensure. He highlighted that the number of licensees is small in number, but they cover a lot of territory. He related that it is important to have good licensure. He has had concerns about enforcement since the investigator is being spread so thin. He expressed concern that some work is not done. He further expressed concern in terms of enforcement for all building professions. He pointed out that the state needs to ensure that the professions are not subject to those practicing without a license, false advertising construction and other issues that investigators are familiar with so it is important to fully staff the position. He offered his support for HB 337 and urged members to approve the bill. 4:48:42 PM CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 337. CHAIR OLSON commented that it's tough to argue with professions who want to pay more for licensing fees to self-police. 4:49:16 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report HB 337 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. There being no objection, HB 337 was reported out of the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.